Atheism/Theism thread

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

I am a thinking "atheist". I don't reject God, though I don't believe in any. I wish to "believe" in what seems most reasonable to me, and yes, sometimes, this is subject to change! I love thinking about this stuff. I have written some text on it, in a mathematically reasoning method, and came to a few conclusions, one of which being that believing in a deity (and the surrounding teachings and morality) may be a positive impact on your life, but it is "silly" considering no sufficient proof can ever be given to support such a belief.

There are so many different religions, and there as so many possible religions, and only maximally one of them can be right. The odds to pick the wrong one are just too big. Just from a rational perspective: if there exists some deity or multiple deities, odds are almost 100% we're having the wrong ideas about how they are, think, and operate, because He/She/It/They would be divine, and we are not.

Any person who can think well for himself will question whether or not God exists or not - regardless of their religious backgrounds, and come to some conclusion later. I never saw the point in believing in a God, because even if He exists... why doesn't he just clearly show himself to everyone, and let everybody be happy, when he's so omnipotent? Why, for example, would he allow evil to exist? If there is a God, he must be (mainly) malevolent, and I prefer not to live by such a standard.

Now, what I think the most important thing about religion as a whole is the following. People can believe in what ever the fuck they want. Why does anyone give a shit about what someone else believes?

Atheists - if a Christian is happy to believe in God, and finds a nice wellbeing and lives the good life by trusting in God and doing things as the Bible tells them, who the fuck are you to tell them to stop doing it? Just because you think it's bull? Why burst any bubble when you don't have to?

Christians - if an atheist is happy to reject God, and finds a nice wellbeing and lives the good life by trusting in, say, science, and doing things as science and general rationality tells them, who the fuck are you to tell him to stop doing it? Just because you think he'll burn in hell, and think he's wrong?

People are so close minded. If everyone could simply accept other people's religious views without bashing about it, there would never be any problem about it.

On an unrelated note: atheism, yes, IS a religious view, and it IS a belief. Get over it. You believe that no deities can exist. It's a belief. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, can you? Check and mate. I haven't read up on this thread carefully, so this point may be way off topic, but seriously guys, take some logic classes.

you are agnostic my friend

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

For instance: Would it make sense to say that someone has an addiction if that addiction is no addiction at all?

Of course, you're addicted to not being addicted!!! how can you not see it man you're lost

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

If you're going to espouse logic, it'd help to at least be correct in what you're saying.

Lack of belief is not the same as belief in lacking. To not have a belief simply means you don't have a belief. This does not mean one necessarily believes that that thing does not exist.

Atheism is *not* a religion.

For instance: Would it make sense to say that someone has an addiction if that addiction is no addiction at all?

Atheism is not a religion, but it is a belief

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by BOSS_pjpaveloffga

I want to tell you guys a little story.

Many years ago I got stranded in a parking lot because my car wouldn't start. I had no phone and it was a neighborhood that I was not familiar with. I had nowhere to go or call. All of a sudden after sitting in the parking lot for about 20 mins, a tow truck comes down the street and sees me.

The guy said to me, "Boy you are very lucky. I never ever ever ever come down this street. Usually I turn on the street before this one every night but I missed it tonight so I made the next right. This never happened in all my 20 years on the job."

To me, that was God sending me help despite the fact he is still remaining hidden and I can't see Him anywhere.

How else can someone explain that? A guy decided to come down a street he never turned down in 20 years and it just happened to be at the exact moment I was stuck? What if he turned down the street before that like he did every night for 20 years?

He even told me "I don't know how I missed that turn. Usually it's like clockwork and I don't even have to think about it."
Obviously god exsists.

Let me tell you a little story.

About 6 years ago, I was heading to church with my family and we stopped to get breakfast at Jack in the Box. There was a homeless man sitting on the divider in the middle of the street. I asked my mom if I could use some of my own money to buy this guy breakfast. She was okay with it, so I bought him a combo meal.

When I walked over and gave it to him, he told me to have a wonderful day and that God must be working through me.

30 minutes later during the church service, my mom received a text from my step-dad saying that my grandmother had died.

Obviously God works in mysterious ways and my grandmother dying was related to me buying a homeless man a breakfast deal.

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Atheism is not a religion, but it is a belief

Do i really have to cite wikipedia

"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true."


That means rejecting a belief for being ridiculous does not constitute a belief.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Atheism is not a religion, but it is a belief

It's not a belief. It's a lack of belief.

Atheism = a + theism.
A means "not"
theism = belief in supernatural deity/deities yada yada

Atheism = no belief in supernatural deities

[PaperclipGames]

A lack of belief would be agnostic, though; more or less, not believing in anything in specific. Thus, not believing a deity exists, but also not necessarily believing a deity does not exist.
Basically, atheism is the group of all non-theistic religions/beliefs. The premise that atheists see as true is: "there exists no god". Check and mate, again. Come on now, please.
And yes, there are systems in which no premise can be set; not particularly believing in a god does NOT mean you must believe there can NOT be one. You can simply be indecisive, for example... Flat out rejection of a belief is literally the same as believing in (part of) its opposite.

Also, Mollocephalus, if your previous post was all pointed towards me: you either have no idea what I'm talking about, have no idea what you are talking about, or you're a troll (you'd be a decent one though). Flat out saying my reasoning is "retarded" really won't make me agree with you, or make me respect you as a person; rather the opposite, so I think only you are losing points there.

On a side note, my mind is very open, considering I have changed my overall world views multiple times in the past, and would do so again if I am proposed a theory that seems more likely than what I currently live by.

All in all, your entire post can be disregarded.

Footnote: atheism = a-theism = a-the-ism = (a-the)-ism = (no god)-belief = belief that no god exists =/= no belief that god exists. This difference is so obvious, why are some of you missing it?

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

A lack of belief would be agnostic, though; more or less, not believing in anything in specific. Thus, not believing a deity exists, but also not necessarily believing a deity does not exist.
Basically, atheism is the group of all non-theistic religions/beliefs.

Again, not correct.

Gnosticism is a claim about knowledge and what is knowable.
Theism is a claim about belief in supernatural deities.

They are different things. You can be a gnostic atheist, an agnostic atheist, a gnostic theist, an agnostic theist, etc.

It's not meaningful to say that atheism is a belief. People do this, usually, to try to put atheism and theism on the same grounds of validity: "You believe in atheism and I believe in theism, and both stances are equally sound/valid because we simply have faith in opposite directions -- they're both beliefs" which is incorrect.

Otherwise, if you're going to say that atheism is a belief (which makes no sense), you have to at least acknowledge that atheism and theism are not on equal grounds of validity.

[Choofers]

Holy shit.

Atheism = No belief in deities.
Agnostic = Believes it is impossible to prove the existence of deities.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

you have to at least acknowledge that atheism and theism are not on equal grounds of validity.

This, I can definitely agree with.

Also, what's the point of bashing on the "atheism is not a belief!!" because you, apparently, very desperately want to reject the idea that you are actually believing something? If you do not believe anything (in religious aspect), then you don't believe no god exists either.

I'll just take your word for the gnostic/agnostic part, I really don't care that much about such definitions. Bottom line is that everyone should be free to believe in what ever the fuck they want without people bitching about it and calling eachother retarded or wrong.

[Choofers]

Nothing isn't something.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

It's not a belief. It's a lack of belief.

Atheism = a + theism.
A means "not"
theism = belief in supernatural deity/deities yada yada

Atheism = no belief in supernatural deities

Atheism is the belief that there is no god. According to the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

“Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.”

Atheism is a belief.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Also, what's the point of bashing on the "atheism is not a belief!!" because you, apparently, very desperately want to reject the idea that you are actually believing something? If you do not believe anything (in religious aspect), then you don't believe no god exists either.

So you would acknowledge, then, that you have a foot fetish and also have a pedophilic tendency? And you also keep a poop collection?

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

I'll just take your word for the gnostic/agnostic part, I really don't care that much about such definitions. Bottom line is that everyone should be free to believe in what ever the fuck they want without people bitching about it and calling eachother retarded or wrong.

Which I'd agree with, but it's not what we see in practice (keep a eye on politics/government/society/the economy and it gets pretty ridiculous)

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Bottom line is that everyone should be free to believe in what ever the fuck they want without people bitching about it and calling eachother retarded or wrong.

It is true only when those who hold a belief don't want to interfere with other people's different way of living, and it is rarely so, considering people with strong belief have also a quite developed feeling of being superior, again enlightened, therefore, they have the mission to "bring the word" to everyone else. That's what makes religion one hell of a social stigma.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Atheism is the belief that there is no god. According to the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

“Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.”

Atheism is a belief.

Dude, this is incorrect. Atheism does not necessarily affirm the non-existence of God. Most atheists you'll encounter belong to the "suspension of belief" category. Very few would definitely say "There is absolutely zero chance of God existing."

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

If you do not believe anything (in religious aspect), then you don't believe no god exists either.

That's right. There's no belief. Lacking a belief is different from saying that one believes something doesn't exist for sure.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

It is true only when those who hold a belief don't want to interfere with other people's different way of living, and it is rarely so, considering people with strong belief have also a quite developed feeling of being superior, again enlightened, therefore, they have the mission to "bring the word" to everyone else. That's what makes religion one hell of a social stigma.

The amazing irony of this post is that you seem to have quite a feeling of being superior, enlightened, and feel the need to "bring the word" to everyone else in this thread.

just

wow, lmao

And it's not always believers that do bad when it comes to any sort of religious disasters. It really isn't like atheists are always the good guys.
The world is far from perfect. Does this thread need to be imperfect too? Apparently. It's a shame, though.

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Dude, this is incorrect. Atheism does not necessarily affirm the non-existence of God. Most atheists you'll encounter belong to the "suspension of belief" category. Very few would definitely say "There is absolutely zero chance of God existing."

Exactly. It goes like this. All evidence we have up until now points toward the absence of god. (besides, the common conception of god is anachronistic, naive and human-based, it should be already dismissed because of these things - if anything, "god" could be the energy flowing through the universe, or the universe as a whole itself, but that still wouldn't make it a conscious deity. just pointing out that people can fall inside the logical traps of a fallacious deity so easily, and then completely disregard the grand power of the universe itself, which is something that indeed exists. how ironic).

If all evidence that you can currently get a grasp on suggests that gravity pulls things downwards, why do you still expect to be pulled upwards?

[PaperclipGames]

@Reincarnate: So, from this view on the word "atheist", an atheist doesn't believe that no gods exist, either then? So if you ask an atheist, "does god exists?" he will answer something like "I dunno"? If that really is how you and Mollocephalus view the word "atheist", I can take back all of what I said about the word itself.

[Choofers]

Any educated atheist would say something like "I don't believe so, no" or "there's no evidence pointing towards the existence of one."

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Dude, this is incorrect. Atheism does not necessarily affirm the non-existence of God. Most atheists you'll encounter belong to the "suspension of belief" category. Very few would definitely say "There is absolutely zero chance of God existing."

so you admit that you believe there is a possibility that God exists?