A big problem for Evolution?

[the_unda_doggz]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

do you know how funny you sound?

He doesn't sound funny at all. Evolution is completely true.

Unlike...

A GIANT INVISIBLE MAN MADE STUFF... THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE... Now that is unbelievable.
Creationism is 100% bull****.

[Chrissi]

Idiots. Stop it.

Now, Chocoholic, if you say you don't like the idea that "something came from nothing", let me ask you: Where did God come from?

If God just "always existed", why couldn't the universe have "always existed"?

And if God just spontaneously existed, why couldn't the universe have spontaneously existed?

Do you see that any argument you give about God could easily be applied to the universe, thus no longer necessitating the belief in God?

[the_unda_doggz]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

Idiots. Stop it.

Now, Chocoholic, if you say you don't like the idea that "something came from nothing", let me ask you: Where did God come from?

If God just "always existed", why couldn't the universe have "always existed"?

And if God just spontaneously existed, why couldn't the universe have spontaneously existed?

Do you see that any argument you give about God could easily be applied to the universe, thus no longer necessitating the belief in God?

Aww, come on, she is 13. You kind of crushed her there.
I am glad that you can explain it in an understanding/devastating fashion.






L33t.

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by the_unda_doggz

Aww, come on, she is 13. You kind of crushed her there.
I am glad that you can explain it in an understanding/devastating fashion.






L33t.

:\ It would help a lot if you would stop calling her beliefs bull****. To her they are very real, even if you do not agree. She believes it is true JUST AS MUCH as you believe what you think is true. Who are you to judge that you are ultimately right? Show some goddamned compassion.

If you can set a good example by not being pushy, maybe she will be able to stop too, and we can all debate without calling names or getting this thread locked.

[the_unda_doggz]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

:\ It would help a lot if you would stop calling her beliefs bull****. To her they are very real, even if you do not agree. She believes it is true JUST AS MUCH as you believe what you think is true. Who are you to judge that you are ultimately right? Show some goddamned compassion.

If you can set a good example by not being pushy, maybe she will be able to stop too, and we can all debate without calling names or getting this thread locked.

Hmm, I really don't mind if this thread gets locked, and you did seem cool there for a couple of minutes, but come on, do you believe in creationism also, Chrissi?

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by the_unda_doggz

Hmm, I really don't mind if this thread gets locked, and you did seem cool there for a couple of minutes, but come on, do you believe in creationism also, Chrissi?

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

No.

You should already know that I'm very scientifically minded.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

Idiots. Stop it.

Now, Chocoholic, if you say you don't like the idea that "something came from nothing", let me ask you: Where did God come from?

If God just "always existed", why couldn't the universe have "always existed"?

And if God just spontaneously existed, why couldn't the universe have spontaneously existed?

Do you see that any argument you give about God could easily be applied to the universe, thus no longer necessitating the belief in God?

You're right here. It is useless to invent a God to fix the problem of nothing --> something, because it only complicates the problem and makes it even more reliant on nonexistant voodoo.


I personally think the answer rests in the fact that...something didn't actually come from nothing. The universe hasn't always existed in its current form, however, energy has. I don't think there is such a thing as 'nothing'.

You could still bring up the question 'WHY is there something rather than nothing', which to me is a redundant question. Put simply, nothing doesn't exist and that's just the way it is, just like magic doesn't exist and that's the way it has always been (at least not in this universe ). Why is a human derivative anyway.

[the_unda_doggz]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

No.

You should already know that I'm very scientifically minded.

You are pretty smart, I have to admit.

[tsugomaru]

Originally Posted by the_unda_doggz

do you believe in creationism also, Chrissi?

You missed everything Chrissi said. A proof is not, "hey, do you believe in what I believe too, if so, we must be right." This is exactly what you are trying to argue against. If you are arguing about evolutionism, you must back it up with scientific fact, after all, it's what makes evolutionism so much more appealing to today's man.

~Tsugomaru

[darkdragoness]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

My personal opinion: Christianity is a widely-held belief in North America because it's nice and easy to believe for simple-minded people. It reassures them and gives them confidence. It allows them to not be afraid of death, knowing that, since they have accepted Jesus as their personal saviour, they will go to heaven and have a fantastic afterlife. And, arguably, most of all, it gives them many, many scapegoats: anybody who doesn't believe the same as them. People love a good scapegoat, or a few million scapegoats.

I agree with that completely - I think it's one of the main reasons Christianity spread so fast in Rome. It was for more simple than the original religion.

I don't see why there can't ever be any middle ground between Evolution and Creationism. Personally, I think that there is some kind of intelligence, but I don't think it's a human man. I think of it more as a force.

If, however, God (and I use that term collectively) does exist and did create the universe as described in the Bible, I don't think it was in 7 days. As I've said many times in this thread, I think the whole "7 days" thing is metaphorically speaking. It's MUCH easier to believe that a god made us through Evolution, and that we didn't just drop out of the sky.

[perkeyone]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

:\ It would help a lot if you would stop calling her beliefs bull****. To her they are very real, even if you do not agree. She believes it is true JUST AS MUCH as you believe what you think is true. Who are you to judge that you are ultimately right? Show some goddamned compassion.

If you can set a good example by not being pushy, maybe she will be able to stop too, and we can all debate without calling names or getting this thread locked.

you are a great person... im not so great lol so thats why i just love to shatter peoples hopes and dreams rofl.

Originally Posted by darkdragoness

I guess I don't really have one (a religion) - I kinda do my own thing.

well... im sorry to break this to you but... how can you beleive in a religion that you made up? doesnt that make it... you know... "made up"?

Originally Posted by Reach

You're right here. It is useless to invent a God to fix the problem of nothing --> something, because it only complicates the problem and makes it even more reliant on nonexistant voodoo.


I personally think the answer rests in the fact that...something didn't actually come from nothing. The universe hasn't always existed in its current form, however, energy has. I don't think there is such a thing as 'nothing'.

You could still bring up the question 'WHY is there something rather than nothing', which to me is a redundant question. Put simply, nothing doesn't exist and that's just the way it is, just like magic doesn't exist and that's the way it has always been (at least not in this universe ). Why is a human derivative anyway.

i love you rofl
1 more post! till 5k

[darkdragoness]

Originally Posted by perkeyone

well... im sorry to break this to you but... how can you beleive in a religion that you made up? doesnt that make it... you know... "made up"?

I take bits and pieces from different religions that makes sense and throw them all together.

Example: I don't believe there's a heaven or hell. I think after you die, you feel pain for everything you did wrong and joy for everything you did right. I also believe in reincarnation - how could I, as a female, POSSIBLY know what it's like to be male? How would I ever know what it's like to handicapped, or have cancer? How could my soul learn all these different things and develop unless I had experienced them myself?

I also believe that the universe is controlled by energy (male and female) and thought - I think that's how prayer works. If you put enough energy into something happening, chances are (if it's realistic) it'll manifest - or, you'll see something happen that you think was a manifestation of your prayer.

Oh, and perkey, I don't have my own religion, per se. I just have my own beliefs.

[perkeyone]

tuche...

thats better than relying on information from one religion i suppose
you throw in science too aparently...

do you have stong beliefs in psychosematics?(excuse my spelling if its wrong)
psychosematics* is when you believe in something enough that it becomes true. (realisticly of course... you can believe all you want that you will survive getting shot in the head with a shot gun 100 times in a row but im fairly sure you will die.)

i find it hard to believe that you "know" what its like to be something you are not but i can understand that you may have an extremely enlightened prospect of what it is like

[darkdragoness]

"On the afternoon of May 1st, 1916, I was standing in my hall, preparing to go out, when I saw the knob of my front door slowly turn. I stood still, awaiting developments; gradually the door opened, and I saw a man standing there. As he saw me he quickly closed the door and ran down the stairs and out of the front door. (He was, in fact, a burglar, trying to enter my apartment.) The interesting thing about the experience is this: that during the moment he was standing in the door, although he did not actually move, I had the distinct impression that he had run up the hall and grasped me firmly by the arm, and I was for the moment petrified with fear. The next day my arm was black and blue in the exact spot where I thought he had pinched me; and this mark continued for several days until it finally wore off."

-Professor Jean-Martin Charcot

We studied somatoform disorders in psychology class - I think they're quite real.
I got a fish-hook stuck in my finger once, and they had to numb me by sticking the needle in the exact spot where the hook was. It hurt like a MOTHER, so I turned my head and after about 15 seconds I could still feel the needle there. I asked the doctor what was taking so long - I was still looking away - and he said "I finished a long time ago." The pain continued until I looked at my finger and saw for myself that the needle was gone.

[perkeyone]

Originally Posted by darkdragoness

Okay. Read carefully. This is all theory, mind you.

There is a star somewhere in the universe once called Kolob. It's the closest thing that's physical to heaven. One day on Kolob is equal to 1,000 days here on earth (because of the whole time-stretching thing which we won't get into right now). THEREFORE, since God is telling the story of Genesis, and since Kolob is the closest measurable thing to heaven, it's safe to say that it took at LEAST 7,000 years for the universe to be made.

Make sense now?

is "kolob" a real star or did you assume that there is a star and then named it

[darkdragoness]

Originally Posted by perkeyone

is "kolob" a real star or did you assume that there is a star and then named it

It says in the book of Abraham that there is a star named Kolob. But, since it's taken from the Book of Mormon, most Christians think it's all lies.

[perkeyone]

So you do believe in psychosomatics?
I’m not sure if I believe but I think I read some where that the human brain possesses enough power to kill its self so if one truly believes that they are dead they will die. But this is way off topic. As for your beliefs I assume that if you found out something that completely shattered what your hold to be true then you would believe something else instead right?

Originally Posted by darkdragoness

It says in the book of Abraham that there is a star named Kolob. But, since it's taken from the Book of Mormon, most Christians think it's all lies.

I think its funny when religions tell each other that they are lies. they have no way to prove the other wrong because if they did they would prove themself wrong too. rofl

[darkdragoness]

Originally Posted by perkeyone

So you do believe in psychosomatics?
I’m not sure if I believe but I think I read some where that the human brain possesses enough power to kill its self so if one truly believes that they are dead they will die. But this is way off topic. As for your beliefs I assume that if you found out something that completely shattered what your hold to be true then you would believe something else instead right?



I think its funny when religions tell each other that they are lies. they have no way to prove the other wrong because if they did they would prove themself wrong too. rofl

I probably would as long as it sounded logical.


Yeah, I do too. When people have near-death experiences, Christian people see God, Pagans the God or Goddess, Muslims Allah... maybe what happens to us when we die all depends on what we believe...?

[perkeyone]

Originally Posted by darkdragoness

I probably would as long as it sounded logical.


Yeah, I do too. When people have near-death experiences, Christian people see God, Pagans the God or Goddess, Muslims Allah... maybe what happens to us when we die all depends on what we believe...?

ah but the human mind is capeable* of altering itself... if you want to believe something happened then you will remember it happening... I know this is a bad example but it is similar in reality (in final fantasy 7 cloud alters his own memory...) also people do things for attention and have many other motives for claiming to have seen an entity after a near death experience

[Chrissi]

The human mind is a powerful influence. Anything that you believe is real, is as real as things that are actually real, to you.

Hope that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is... if you think it's true, it's true. To you. It's as true as the fact that the sky is blue (to use a cliche'd saying).