What's with the hostility towards Christians?

[foilman8805]

Honestly, I can't say what religion preaches anymore. I've become so disconnected from the idea of organized religion that I probably couldn't tell you but 2 of the 10 Commandments at this point.

You're bringing up valid points that I myself at one point questioned. I finally came to a conclusion that I could believe in a higher power (which I do), but not have to follow a religion that was quite obviously not divinely inspired, but the product of a small group of people's lust for control and power.

[dean_machine]

I'm going to join back into the discussion a tiny bit.

Originally Posted by Emo_Saur_

The subject on Gay Relationships:

It says marriage is out of love, not lust. Therefore, being marriage is between two who love one another, not lust.
One thing that gets me is predestination. If being homosexual is SO BAD, why would someone who hates it make it possible? Why would he create so many people who will later be condemed to hell. It's in a way "murder," so to speak.
I think you should have good morals in life, not have to worry about: sin, damnation, salvation.

It's because God wants us to honor and glorify him by obeying him. Giving us no choice doesn't make that possible.

Originally Posted by Emo_Saur_

Yes, but they also say there is no free-will. That means you can not mess with the fate god has planned.

Just to me, I think more of the bigger churches are the biggest scam around. I mean, you give what is supposed to be given to the church and you should be done. Give or take you want to donate a few more and feel better about yourself. NOW, you get these HUGE churches that say if you don't give and give, you will be looked down upon god.

Money>God, I just can't get over the situations.

Usually it's non-christians that say there is no free will according to the bible when it doesn't say that and the christians that do say that are mistaken. Just because God knows the future doesn't mean that we can't help what choices we make.

Also if there are huge churches that say that about not donating, then that's wrong of them to say that. Christians sin just like everyone else, and some set a really bad example for all christians. There's also many people who claim to be christians but are not actually christians.

I usually stay out of debates because I'm not prepared, and I'm not really prepared now either. I should know the bible more than I do now before I discuss much.

[Squeek]

I'm not replying to anyone in particular in this post--just posting something I heard about not ten seconds ago.

Somewhere in this thread, I'm sure, someone asked 'What's the harm in believing in this?' Well, I'm sure you were talking about the religion itself, but I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent.

This is a website that has just a list of purely anecdotal evidence of the harm in believing in some things too much. It does not seek to prove or deny anything.

http://whatstheharm.net/christianscience.html
http://whatstheharm.net/religiousfundamentalism.html
http://whatstheharm.net/jehovahswitnesses.html

Now, I haven't read all of those stories yet, but I've heard a story about a mother of a teenage boy. The boy came out of the closet to his mother. Told her he was gay. The mother told him he was a sinner and needed to look into changing his ways. The boy yelled at her ("You say the same thing everyone else does") and stormed off. The mother sought out psychiatrists who told her you cannot convert a Gay person to a straight person and that trying to do so could lead to permanent psychological damage. She told them they were pathetic psychiatrists and looked for one who would.

The boy killed himself not long after.

Yes it's basically sensationalism and yes it's not a trend among all Christians. I'm not arguing that. Just chalk it up to a reason I have hostility for Christians. I know of nobody outside of the religious community who has any kind of problem with two men or two women loving one another. I'm not even gay, but I would hate my life if I were with all these people telling me I'm a failure in the eyes of God (even though I don't believe in one). Likewise, I can't imagine why anyone would refuse medical treatment just because their church told them to do so. You cannot heal a person by asking "God" to heal them. It doesn't work. No amount of prayer will make Leukemia go away.

It's stories like this of otherwise good people doing incredibly stupid things because their church tells them to, or their religion says they must that truly break my heart. Nobody should die of a disease we know the cure to.

[FallenXxRaven]

Along with what Squeek said, it may be because they don't believe in evolution. Maybe 100 years ago it was acceptable but with all the scientific evidence we have in the 21st century its nearly conclusive.

And it also may be things like The 700 Club (That is the Christian news show, right?). I watched that one day and they twisted the news and everything that happened to make it look like everyone was a sinner and that we were all going to Hell and whatnot.

Now I do not want you to think that I think that all Christians are as extremist as the Muslims (which, in some of their demonstrations, they've managed to look fairly similar to Middle Easterners protesting former President Bush, minus fires and killing), but most of Christianity's most known followers are, to be blunt, assholes (such as the aforementioned 700 Club guy), and I think that that would not only make an outsider to the religion hostile to the religion itself, but also to anyone that follows it, as they assume they are just like the guy making an ass of himself they just saw at the latest gay marriage protest.

On a kind of related kind of not note: How come I see everyone protesting gays (With signs like 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve), but no one is particularly paying attention to lesbians? Is it not a sin for the two women to be together, as with the men, or is it because the Christian community doesn't like the idea of two men in bed, but the thought of two women in bed is, for lack of a better word, hot to them? This doesn't apply to just Christians, but everyone. I'm even reading a book on psychology that directly states that there are a lot of people trying to find the cause for gayness in men, but not lesbianness (Is that even a word?) in women.
Can you give me a reason for that?

[Emo_Saur_]

Dean_Machine, well as it has been explained to me in many churches, which I left you have no free will. God has everything planned out for you. I guess the churches I have gone to are all radicals. One of the churches what brought on the subject was a pentecostal church, by far the scariest denomonations of the church. I've been to a "baptist," church that told me I was going to hell because I chose to be a friend with a homosexual, they told me " god is telling us that you are a sinner." They explained why they don't like homosexuality; "Homosexuals are the decoy of God. God has made these people the way to are to condem anyone who associates with them, or even thinks they are a 'good person'. If you choose to make amends with this being, we will exile you (from the church district I was in.)"
So, they basically explained that homosexuals were people who lure other people who are not worthy of existance.

[dean_machine]

Originally Posted by Emo_Saur_

Dean_Machine, well as it has been explained to me in many churches, which I left you have no free will. God has everything planned out for you. I guess the churches I have gone to are all radicals. One of the churches what brought on the subject was a pentecostal church, by far the scariest denomonations of the church. I've been to a "baptist," church that told me I was going to hell because I chose to be a friend with a homosexual, they told me " god is telling us that you are a sinner." They explained why they don't like homosexuality; "Homosexuals are the decoy of God. God has made these people the way to are to condem anyone who associates with them, or even thinks they are a 'good person'. If you choose to make amends with this being, we will exile you (from the church district I was in.)"
So, they basically explained that homosexuals were people who lure other people who are not worthy of existance.

It's too bad that there are churches out there that are like that. When they put it that way, they may as well say everyone is going to hell because all sin is equally bad to God and everyone has sinned. Those people are no better than anyone else. Those are the kind of people that set a bad example for all christians when they think of themselves as good people for not liking or doing things such as homosexuality or some other hot topic stuff like that.

Everyone can be christians with noone excluded. Anyone can be saved. As for people that have never heard about God or anything, they can still know about god because of earth and everything in existence is proof that there is a god. About Jesus saving them, I don't really have an answer about that, but there's a few verses in the bible about Jesus going down to retrieve the gates to hell after he died on the cross, and I believe that those who wished to follow him were let free, and I think Jesus gives people a chance that have never heard about them after they die to choose to follow him. I'm not really sure though.

[sumzup]

From one of Squeek's links: [EXTREMELY GRAPHIC, FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE] Jehovah's Witness guy refuses to get tumor operation early on, this is what happens.

Stories like this infuriate me.

*will come back with more thread-relevant arguments later, lunch beckons*

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by dean_machine

As for people that have never heard about God or anything, they can still know about god because of earth and everything in existence is proof that there is a god.

What you're not understanding is that this is not the logical answer. The only way anyone has found the Christian God in remote places in our world was through missionaries. These people didn't care about the origin of the world before anyone showed up. If they did, they probably didn't come to the same answer as you.

Go somewhere that is unaffected by religion (but not intelligence) and perform the Cobb County test on them. Ask them if they know what the origin of human life on Earth was. Then ask them which of the following they think is the truth.

1) A super-powerful sky creature made it. Then the space creature made two humans and had them start a family with ten thousand children who all had incest and they decided to change the color of their skin and wander onto every single continent in the world without even knowing how to build a boat and learn all different languages and customs and somehow randomly forget over time that their parents were created by this super-powerful space creature and that there was some kind of magical garden where everything is happy and nobody can die but we're not allowed back into this place and we can't find it anymore.

2) We evolved from monkeys, who had evolved from something else. Here's a billion pieces of archaeological evidence to support this.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by dean_machine

As for people that have never heard about God or anything, they can still know about god because of earth and everything in existence is proof that there is a god.

That doesn't mean Christianity is the correct belief. Many people who believe in religions other than Christianity will agree that life is proof there is a god of some kind, but they'll believe it is proof it is their OWN god(s), not the Christian one. Even if you can prove there is a god, you would still have to prove that the Bible (and specifically the New Testament) is the word of that god. It seems like it should be a lot harder to make a convincing argument for that.

Originally Posted by YaBoySM

LMFAO, so that means that monkeys in a couple of years, will come out of their cages and say "dude, let's stop eating bananas and get laid!!!". So much for a logical answer.

Wait, do you believe that monkeys in the wild spend all their time eating bananas and don't have sex? What the hell?

P.S. Evolution takes millions of years >_> Why is it that Christians who are anti-evolution rarely understand it, but then expect atheists to have a thorough understanding of Christianity? Believing evolution can happen in a few years and on purpose would be about as silly as believing that Adam and Eve wrote the entire Bible.

[Syhto]

just do some research and read a couple books base on why people believe strange things

you just gotta love and let live and live and let love

[devonin]

2) We evolved from monkeys, who had evolved from something else. Here's a billion pieces of archaeological evidence to support this.

Squeek, come on man. Evolution does not say that man evolved from monkeys. It says that both man -and- monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.

[TheDrizzle2010]

Originally Posted by Squeek

1) A super-powerful sky creature made it. Then the space creature made two humans and had them start a family with ten thousand children who all had incest and they decided to change the color of their skin and wander onto every single continent in the world without even knowing how to build a boat and learn all different languages and customs and somehow randomly forget over time that their parents were created by this super-powerful space creature and that there was some kind of magical garden where everything is happy and nobody can die but we're not allowed back into this place and we can't find it anymore.

This is not how the Christian Bible explains creation. The people didn't randomly decide to wander onto every single continent, they wanted to be "physically" as high as God and built a tower. Their tower was destroyed, God scattered them.

With that being said, not all people had forgotten about this "super-powerful space creature," evidenced by their desire to reach him.

Noah built an ark according to Genesis, therefore crafting a boat was not something unknown.

The absence of death was not confined within the Garden of Eden, and the banishment of man from the garden did not result in death. Death came from man's sin.

I'm not arguing your view on Christianity or any of your other points, it's just you're setting up the Christian straw man, so to speak. I agree that if you go to any remote country and ask them how they believe the world came to being, you'd get a thousand different responses, most referring to diety, but usually more than one.

[devonin]

the people hadn't forgotten about this "super-powerful space creature," evidenced by their desire to reach him.

So everybody on Earth has always known about the christian God as taught to Adam and Eve and down through the ages? Funny how many areas of the world seem to have missed that particular religious memo.

[TheDrizzle2010]

Originally Posted by devonin

So everybody on Earth has always known about the christian God as taught to Adam and Eve and down through the ages? Funny how many areas of the world seem to have missed that particular religious memo.

As his argument went from this statement to his statement about a magical garden, I figured he was referring to the time-line near these events, not today.

After reading your post, I see how my point was ill-worded. Fix'd.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Originally Posted by sumzup

From one of Squeek's links: [EXTREMELY GRAPHIC, FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE] Jehovah's Witness guy refuses to get tumor operation early on, this is what happens.

Stories like this infuriate me.

*will come back with more thread-relevant arguments later, lunch beckons*

He's standing up for what he belives in, good for him.

[~kitty~]

Religion is so stupid, yet it is a subject that is argued over and over again, countless times.

The fact is that this isn't about stupid or not stupid. This is an argument over belief and failure to understand what people BELIEVE the Bible is there to explain.

Thus, this subject will continue to be argued until some combination settlement occurs.

"What's wrong with people?" <--- Ask yourself what's wrong with you, and you'll find out the answer.

EDIT: To clear up any confusions that may occur from the implication of my statement, I would have to say that I am responding to the OP.

[Devilsrejectedsoul]

I grew up with my grandparent, I used to go to chruch alot
then around the time my mtoher died I noticed, There is no god for me.
I am an atheist
But I don't force my view of the world into other throats.
I say believe what you believe.
Whatever makes you happy in this world.
Yes some may say omfg you gave up cause your mother died
well growing up my father was in the navy was dis-honored out by drugs.
My mother also got into drugs she went to chruch alot and tried to stop but what happens?
She Dies, a week before my birthday....
So I noticed even though she prayed every day and also went to chruch much as she can she still died.
So I choose to believe there is no god.
But I won't tell others they should believe that too.
I tihnk people just need to be more tolerate in the world and people will be much happier less wars more treats in science and medicine.
So it's not really about religon but mroe tolerence people don't have.

[tsugomaru]

Woah woah woah

It's hard to take your post seriously when you have a sentence in each line.

~Tsugomaru

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

There is no proof against Christianity so you can not say its false but you cant say its completely true. There are also fasle Christians that are bad examples for Chrisianity.

According to Christianity, evolution is false. Well, abiogensis proves that evolution can occur, and transitional fossils prove that evolution DID occur. Therefore if evolution occurred, God didn't make us therefore Christianity is false.

Originally Posted by Devilsrejectedsoul

I grew up with my grandparent, I used to go to chruch alot
then around the time my mtoher died I noticed, There is no god for me.
I am an atheist
But I don't force my view of the world into other throats.
I say believe what you believe.
Whatever makes you happy in this world.
Yes some may say omfg you gave up cause your mother died
well growing up my father was in the navy was dis-honored out by drugs.
My mother also got into drugs she went to chruch alot and tried to stop but what happens?
She Dies, a week before my birthday....
So I noticed even though she prayed every day and also went to chruch much as she can she still died.
So I choose to believe there is no god.
But I won't tell others they should believe that too.
I tihnk people just need to be more tolerate in the world and people will be much happier less wars more treats in science and medicine.
So it's not really about religon but mroe tolerence people don't have.

According to Christianity God works in mysterious ways, and even though I understand you were very depressed about the subject, and I don't personally think Christianity is true, you obviously didn't have faith in the first place as the Bible clearly states you are not meant to understand what he does, he will not interfere with free will therefore what humans do to each other is out of what he will control, and according to the Bible if your mom is in heaven you'll see her there.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by fido123

According to Christianity, evolution is false. Well, abiogensis proves that evolution can occur, and transitional fossils prove that evolution DID occur. Therefore if evolution occurred, God didn't make us therefore Christianity is false.

Which is related to what i was saying earlier. How can christians just ignore this part and accept evolution, but then still consider themselves a christian. So pretty much christians will continue to change their beliefs every time they get evidence against them. They have many times in history and I can't see them stopping anytime soon.

It is like they think that evidence against one part of the bible doesn't count towards the entire thing.

"well a huge section of this book is BS, but the other part has to be true...."