11-7-2012, 09:12 AM | #1 |
FFR Player
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the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
First of all, this may belong in Critical Thinking, but I wasn't quite sure. It seemed more like something that everybody here could discuss, so I'm putting it here for the time being, but if it's in the wrong place, I would have no issue if a mod just moved it over.
Backstory: in the summer, our Composition class was assigned to write a dialogue about a philosophical question ala Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Naturally, I decided to write about Stepmania because that's how I roll. I had also been thinking about the game recently, mostly because of how much my family disapproved of it. I shared the essay with a couple of people, and all had some very interesting things to say, so I was wondering what you guys would all think. Be warned, it is corny because it's written from my perspective, but oh well. Is there really validity to the comparison between Stepmania and real musicians/real music? What do you guys think? |
11-7-2012, 09:44 AM | #2 | |
"Reach For The Stars"
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
This really is a good topic for critical thinking. It should be moved.
I actually took the time to read all of that. I think that games will continue to be games: a player trying to score as many points in the game as possible. But, in a game such as StepMania, FFR, and other rhythm games, they need music producers and people to step the music. There is no game more unique than rhythm games. I feel like it is in it's own special category, aside from FPS's and MMO's. The ability for someone to create a game such as COD is straightforward. You even get paid for making a game such as COD. But what do step artists/"musicians" get for making their music/step chart? Nothing. They just do it because they want to and to contribute to the community. I know that my explanation might have a lot of holes, but feel free to input your opinion. I'm open.
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11-7-2012, 09:47 AM | #3 | |
FFR Player
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
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Not sure if that's quite an answer of relevancy, but that's what I perceived that question as. Other than ideas and motivation for real music makers, Stepmania has no benefits in the long-run. It's just a game to other people.
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11-7-2012, 09:48 AM | #4 |
☆Ξ Phantasy Star Legend Ξ☆
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
I read that, and all I can say is, I feel sorry for you.
It irritates me when people hear "game" and automatically assume "unproductive". In my experiences, people who claim such things are ironically doing even more "unproductive" activities than playing a game. For example, watching a mindless real-life comedy on the television, making sure to keep up with the extended commercials that they've seen countless times. Some of these people even have the commercials memorized and can recite them at any given moment. How can they claim that playing a game is inefficient? Games, activities associated with fun. The more complicated the game, the more you can improve on certain skills and the better you learn about the various aspects related to a game. A game can be a wonderful method for skill development and education, if used correctly. Many people associate games with basic games that have no goals, and can be easily played through without the slightest attempt for improvement. Even then, you can learn these skills I've been talking about, but at a more basic level. Of course staying with these games will eventually plateau your abilities to improve, but we are not talking about playing simple games, are we? Next up, stimulation of the brain. The brain needs activity driven by dynamic thought in order to properly develop. Unlike watching the television, letting the projected images play out everything for you, games force you to think. For example, my grandmother fought off memory deterioration by doing puzzles and word searches. No one can expect her to be able to play StepMania, but those puzzles can be just as stimulating. Finally, enjoyment plays a major role, just like any other form of entertainment. Games can help you moderate your mentality, keeping you in a more desired state of mind. You can get much more out of playing a game than most people realize. A rhythm game like StepMania can introduce you to new styles of music. A role playing game can place you in a new world to explore, giving you a player-driven story. The skills mentioned previously carry over. Let's focus on StepMania in general. Typing is a major part of our world in these modern times. Playing StepMania will, of course, help you improve on that. However, it does much more than that. As you said, timing and hand-eye coordination are also improved. Have you ever considered conditioning as a reason? Doing a physical activity for long periods of time conditions the body to be able to do it more efficiently. You train your nerves to react faster in certain parts of the body. You build much needed muscle. The striking of the bone attracts calcium to the effected area, making it more dense. In short, your hands are much more conditioned for activity than the average person's. Speaking strictly about physical conditioning, activities such as playing the piano would come to you much faster than it would for the normal person. How is that for being "unproductive"? Of course, playing the piano isn't the only activity that conditioning your hands could help you with. Another fine example would be martial arts. You can think of as many more as you like, but I believe you catch my drift. Now, why do I feel sorry for you? Well, I apologize for talking down on your family, but they are expressing their ignorance to great lengths. They will never understand the benefits of playing a game if they continue to correlate video games with people who failed in life. I doubt they'll ever take the time to try and understand your arguments, and it sounds like they instead, listened to you mindlessly as if you were a television. I have to start getting ready for classes, so I don't have time to proof read any of this. I hope this helps out with your fight to justify playing StepMania. Good luck!
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11-7-2012, 10:15 AM | #5 | ||
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
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I've been learning about Structuralism lately, and my thoughts keep returning to Stepmania. What I think merits reference is how similarly structured stepfiles of vastly different songs can be: you're in effect synthesizing an entire spectrum of music to a few recognizable functions. That definitely helps to broaden your perspective beyond just what genres you enjoy. Hehe, no need to feel sorry for me. My family is awesome about some things, ignorant about other things. All of this is really, really good. |
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11-7-2012, 10:30 AM | #6 | |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
Really interesting overall. Never looked at Stepmania in that perspective (just thought that Stepmania is a portal to more music to me before this), but it definitely gave me something to think about rhythm games in general.
Brings to the question though: Quote:
True, rhythm games like Stepmania have the objective of scoring as many points in the game as possible, but even then, it requires accuracy to do. It's similar to trying to perform piano pieces with the score, you still require a sense of rhythm to make sure that the notes/keys you hit are as accurate as possible. It's not like just some random game where you have to mash every key as fast as possible, because that's similar to just smashing every key on the piano, it ends up as a cluster**** and it isn't really all that pleasant to hear. There's speed, but speed requires accuracy as well, otherwise you wouldn't do well on songs you play on Stepmania, similar like you can play the electric guitar at ~250 BPM or so, but if it sounds messy, it wouldn't sound good. Basically from a player's perspective it's comparable to how proficient you are at playing an instrument, imo. From a stepper's perspective (though admittedly I don't step much), like you said, the same song might be portrayed differently by different people with different stepping styles such as Gundam-Dude's IOSYS vocal theory and Kommisar's use of rolls, just like different covers/remixes (with different instruments or programs even) of the same song. Players and simfile artists give their thoughts and opinions about a chart you make, just like how listeners and musicians give their thoughts and opinions about a song you make, and you improve as time goes by. Whether it's a chart or a song. Simfile charts and songs are pretty similar in general, you have to create it, and chances are it will not be exactly the same as what anyone else has made. It's YOUR work, and it's definitely a form of interpretation/expression to others. That's really how I see the relation between Stepmania and music in general, I guess. On another note this is probably the first time I actually wrote this much on the forums lmao. EDIT: As for your family bearing the noise of rhythm gaming, there really isn't much of a choice honestly. They wouldn't experience the same thing as you did, they wouldn't understand why you enjoy playing such a "mindless" game. I've gotten better at playing instruments and understanding music better through rhythm gaming as well, but others might see it as you just getting better as you practice more and more with instruments. If you try to tell them that you got better at music proficiency due to Stepmania and you explain how it did, they might not believe you anyway, and it's just an excuse to play more Stepmania. All in a matter of understanding to me, but in the end, they'll probably see it as just some mindless game that destroys keyboards. Last edited by EzExZeRo7497; 11-7-2012 at 10:36 AM.. |
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11-7-2012, 10:31 AM | #7 |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
Read most of it (heading to class soon) and there's definitely a wall between ignorance and understanding rhythm gaming.
My parents were against FFR/SM before but then I showed the correlation between playing and reading music compared to StepMania/FFR (i.e. reading rhythms, weird patterns, finger strength/flexibility, etc.) and just said "whatever." It is very true that I've gotten better at playing instruments and understanding music better through rhythm gaming. It just seems no matter how you compare games to "more achievable" things in life that people won't understand or try to understand. As dragon said, people will write off games automatically in an ill manner and refuse to settle even if they try. |
11-7-2012, 10:35 AM | #8 |
Dark Chancellor
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
You basically nailed it all.
Though to be fair, I find more enjoyment in making the notecharts than comparing scores with people at this point. The whole "artistic" side of it is what brings me most pleasure. And you're absolutely right; no two people would step a file the same, much like painting on a canvas (although it's a little more likely to be similar).
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11-7-2012, 10:50 AM | #9 | |
Spun a twirly fruitcake,
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
I play the piano, but I don't make money off of it. Although I practice every day, I am still unproductive.
If I was aspiring to make money off of it, then yes: it would be productive. But who is actually aspiring to making money off of playing rhythm games? Living needs money Productivity causes money Parents want you to be able to support yourself Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to spend most of my day watching this anime
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11-7-2012, 11:09 AM | #10 | |||
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
Really enjoying reading all of this. Some very interesting points being brought up.
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Good post. |
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11-7-2012, 01:09 PM | #11 |
FFR Veteran
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
stepmania has made me able to appreciate nearly any piece of music, period. i'm certainly one of the least "music snobby" people i've ever known. this has extended to nearly every aspect of my life. anything that can be interpreted, can be interpreted to be beautiful (or the opposite). i definitely still have my own preferences, but i deeply respect and appreciate other viewpoints.
it's pretty similar with video games, in general. are they a waste of time or not? it could be interpreted either way. |
11-7-2012, 01:15 PM | #12 | |
Spun a twirly fruitcake,
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
It's quite possible to make money off of playing certain games, Stepmania isn't one of them
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11-7-2012, 01:21 PM | #13 | |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
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The best rhythm games are made by developers who have a good understanding about how rhythm games should behave. You've probably played some bad rhythm games in the past. If not, try Rhythm Zone and tell me if you honestly believe the developers knew what they were doing. A skill that you can't make money off of, that has to be a joke.
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11-7-2012, 01:45 PM | #14 |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
something i want to add
many of the people i know who are gamers frown upon rhythm games furthermore, many people i know who play rhythm games frown upon stepmania it really does seem like a niche hobby weeaboos probably play more stepmania than your typical gamer |
11-7-2012, 03:18 PM | #15 | |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
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People relating productivity directly to monetary gain will find that essentially no human being is always being "productive" in their lives. From this prospective, essentially anything you do outside of working (or striving to obtain work of a higher pay incentive) is absolutely useless to you in terms of survival. With this mindset, TV, hanging out with friends, reading books, exercising, listening to music, or even looking for a spouse and having children are unproductive. In fact, the last two are actually counterproductive to you, because of the significant amount of money you would lose from trying to achieve those goals. We don't necessarily have to consider something productive to be something that gives us money do we? Isn't the emotional satisfaction we obtain from taking part in a hobby a variant of production? If productivity is a ratio of production output to what is required to produce it (inputs), then wouldn't the output of emotional gratification in regards to the physical input actually be, in a sense, physiologically productive? It's not just about surviving, it's also about enjoying the life you are living. If you get emotional gratification from playing StepMania, then it is beyond acceptable to use this practice to make your life more enjoyable. We are not robots, we cannot be expected to be financially productive every hour of our entire lives. Actually in a way, without any sort of emotional gratification in a person's life, it really begs the question as to whether or not they even enjoyed living in the first place. Sure they survived, but did they really live their lives the way they wanted to in the end? Feel free to elaborate on this or ask questions.
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11-7-2012, 03:46 PM | #16 |
FFR Simfile Author
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
My opinion in brief is that if you want to learn to be musical, the obvious best way is to structuredly practice that instrument and its theory.
BUT We are human beings, evolved with the psychology and physiology of yesteryear not today's relatively struggle free environment Some of us have always wanted to devote themselves to and practice X - we call this 'talent', but the connotation of being naturally good at it is wrong - a better connotation is 'naturally inclined to practice'. Certainly anyone can become good at any trade, but the less natural practice inclination they have for it the more activation energy is required. So, it is very useful to have trade substitutes or practice substitutes, that grow a similar skillset and are more motivating for you to practice at. While I'd be a better musician right now if in high school I picked up playing an instrument and composing instead of Stepmania, that was never going to happen. I gave up on piano as soon as the second hand came in and never learned chords. I couldn't grok making midis, there wasn't any instrument that inspired me to get good, drums demanded too much co-ordination between all the limbs that I couldn't play anything that interested me. I don't know what originally appealed to me about Stepmania. I do remember how I got into it was a very new friend showing up on AIM with arch0wl's quasar and reality videos - I was immediately hooked by the idea. Maybe it was the idea of how impressively visually and audially overloading it was, maybe it was the idea that anyone could get good at it, I don't know, but it was my big 'thing' to do for many years. In the process I've been exposed to thousands of thousands of songs, stepped hundreds and hundreds analytically and critically, gained hand eye co-ordination, finger-finger co-ordination and rudimentary hand-hand co-ordination. I think honestly the most useful skill it's given me for what I want to get into is such a large body of mentally stored music that I've thought hard about that I can think about tunes and build them via inspiration rather than needing to go to a book and construct them - when I first opened Famitracker I figured out some rudimentary melodies and rhythms without needing to study for hours first. If all of this had not lowered the activation energy of composition enough for that, plus the low activation energy required to compose in Famitracker, I would still be an unmusical bum.
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11-7-2012, 04:34 PM | #17 | |
Spun a twirly fruitcake,
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
The last two posts make me question that I am a human being
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11-7-2012, 04:39 PM | #18 |
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
Can you elaborate?
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11-7-2012, 05:29 PM | #19 | |
new hand moves = dab
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
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great thread, moches. I read 1/2 of your essay and 1/3 of the long responses. this topic should make (and has already made) for an excellent discussion. |
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11-7-2012, 05:49 PM | #20 | |
Sic itur ad astra
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Re: the philosophy of Stepmania/rhythm games
Wow, you made a very well-developed and structured essay, good work. I never really realized how much Stepmania/rhythm games correlated to music theory and everything else you mentioned... it really makes you think.
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This is especially relevant with percussion instruments, because things like speed, rhythm and tempo, and different accenting and drum/cymbal usage (for the kit) are essential in order to make a dynamic and creative piece of music.
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