Old 01-28-2012, 12:22 AM   #61
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You guys really need to read about what your protesting first.

SOPA/PIPA passing would have an immediate effect on the internet

ACTA is basically just guidelines for each country to set up their own laws against internet piracy. The whole goal of ACTA is to harmonize internet laws globally so there are stupid places with loopholes or international issues that no one knows how to resolve.

Read This
^ This

Stopping online piracy isn't a bad thing. It's understandably illigal to download things like albulms and software. We just need to go about it carefully so it doesn't censor the internet or invade anybody's privacy, or punish people into poverty.

Also I swear to god "Anonymous" is nothing but some bullshit one hacker group and a bunch of total morons on Youtube claim to belong to but it doesn't exist. It's not some undergroudn society it's just ****ing 4chan.org and other chan boards and nothing more.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:06 AM   #62
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it's just ****ing 4chan.org and other chan boards and nothing more.
lol
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:24 AM   #63
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lol
I hope you realize the idea that anonymous was ever some sort of organization or anything more than a type of internet culture was from some sensationalized and bullshit Fox News report...
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:27 AM   #64
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I hope you realize the idea that anonymous was ever some sort of organization or anything more than a type of internet culture was from some sensationalized and bullshit Fox News report...
I am anonymous
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:29 AM   #65
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I hope you realize the idea that anonymous was ever some sort of organization or anything more than a type of internet culture was from some sensationalized and bullshit Fox News report...
It's just what happens when a few intelligent or lucky people are able to bandwagon a ton of ignorant or bored people.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:13 AM   #66
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Default Re: ACTA is about to succeed

Yes, bump.

Yes, a week old news.

Yes, valid to the subject.

http://beris.nl/jb/2012/02/14/breaki...-signing-acta/

Hooray for us dutch, we have sense!
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:33 AM   #67
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Default Re: ACTA is about to succeed

yay the dutch cares about the internet \o/.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #68
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A lot of European countries demonstrated against Acta on Saturday, 11th

Roughly 150,000 in Germany \o/
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #69
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Default Re: ACTA is about to succeed

"Stopping online piracy isn't a bad thing. It's understandably illigal to download things like albulms and software. We just need to go about it carefully so it doesn't censor the internet or invade anybody's privacy, or punish people into poverty."

Understandably illegal and incredibly moronically stupid, backwards, greedy yet illegal fall into the same category here. When civilization figures out a way to not pay the tv networks (in a grand sense) of the world, and rather the individuals involved in actually creating a piece of art, perhaps we'll have a reason to get pissy about copyright laws.
But even beyond art and simple human enjoyment and benefit of watching a movie, listening to a song, reading a book, reading a controversial blog, etc, there are more serious reasons that may appeal to you more, to hate copyright laws and all things like them. Science itself is being held back, yes, human advancement, because people feel like they need to own and make money off research. Scientific research done for companies stays with them, that means any biological, chemical, pharmaceutical research, is illegal to share. Even publicly funded research gets published in journals that cost money non-trivial amounts of money to subscribe to,, even though the information is a few clicks away, even though all the physically needed hardware to access that supposedly public information.
Copyright laws are artificial barriers, and they are throw-overs from a time past, and no longer serve their purpose in a publicly beneficial way. Instead, they're walls that coporations which control media use to keep themselves as wealthy as possible. As technology advances, society and how it functions should also advance.
If you believe that downloading albums and software's illegal, think about your public library. Are libraries illegal? Why not? Man are they ballzy, they practically flaunt the fact that they not only have books for free, but yes! even movies and music.
What has changed now from the industrial revolution when libraries became a 'thing', such that the idea of a digital libraries (ie: the internet) is wrong? I mean, some libraries work on...donations! *shudder* Such an evil thing, the library should pay dearly for the rights to keep a book or album in their stock, just like Blockbuster did, may it RIP.
And what about second-hand stores? Selling your old CD collection is far worse...whoever buys them isn't even paying the artist! They're paying some third party that's unconnected to the original artist, clearly second-hand stores are an epidemic of mass proportions that will lead to the downfall of society.
Intellectual property rights are creeuz bznis.

Ultimately, the difference between what's existed in terms of copyright infringment back then and now, is theease at which we can work around not paying for something. We no longer need to make a trip to the library. We no longer have to search through bins at CD Warehouse, and then pay the establishment which probably bought it from a petty criminal who stole someone's entire album collection in the first place. Technology, which brought about the whole idea of 'albums' in the first place because you were limited by the size of your record or the roll of your tape, has surpassed the need to have producers and marketers and especially labels. Societies' have just been slow in catching up. People aren't slow to change, but filthy rich people who have innordinate power due to our free market philosophies, understandably, aren't ready to relinquish the Royal status that they have.

http://www.free-culture.cc/

I don't actually agree with one of the main tennets of this guy's ideal, that we must maintain the idea of ownership, and I never made it to the end of the book because of that, but there are some pretty good stories in there. And in it exists a philosophy that should work well with current-day society.

Regardless if you think all this rambling is garbage though, fact is is that copyrights for individuals is 7 years vs ??? years for corporations, (thanks to Walt Disney apparently).

Yes, this is all outside of SOPA and ACTA because I haven't read them (although I believe that they are probably bad), but stopping online 'piracy' IS a bad thing. The music industry got pissed off about Napster (may it RIP), coined the term 'piracy', spread it around that it was stealing plain and simple, and the public has adopted this view of it. Even though there already existed tons of forms of intellectual 'piracy' before the internet was a thing; even though no one in their right mind would label a public library as bad; even though anyone in my cohort used VCR's extensively and no one gave a shit; even though lending your friend your favorite physical copies of books wasn't wrong; even though second hand stores still follow valid business models even though they're clearly 'pirating'.
(Wait, it totally makes sense why the world adopted this view of piracy so easily; people who used Napster were at the time, young, impressionable people like me who were so giddy at the idea that we could listen to anything we wanted so easily, the days of taping music off the radio were gone!, we couldn't help but feel guilty at the prospect of it. Even with our playlists full of cartoon intros and hitlist music from over a decade ago-still past the 7 year copyright mark. Such free nostalgia has to be wrong, right?)
It is a very recent thing for corporations to be able to have this much control over the art they released, Disney notwithstanding...they became Royalty decades ago.
Unfortunately, that someone can even think that doing something like downloading Beatles music is wrong shows that the coporate backlash is working. Win the minds and you've won the fight.
The direction this whole kerfuffle will ultimately go towards, (the question is when), and the questions we should be asking ourselves, is fitting this ease-of-use into our lifestyle in a fair way, equitable way. (And here's where I get controversial and say that you can't fit such free art in a fair way with capitalism, and so we should ditch capitalism instead of ditching free art, or not paying artists at all.) Instead of thinking of all this free art as wrong, and then calling into question all these other free things, like libraries, we should be thinking of all this free art as right and good. Current DRM is doing an inadequate job/is working counter art.

I want to think that the most recent pushes of corporations towards reigning in their digital rights is like a final, last death surge as they struggle to stay alive, but I suspect we'll see far worse.

Pertinent to the discussion, just this morning my bf got a statement from Rogers (internet provider) saying that he was in violation of copyright laws for torrenting a south park episode. Only a warning though, but he freaked out about it, and deleted the file that's been a seeding torrent for months.
The sad, sad thing is that Rogers doesn't give a shit about this, but they're getting pressure from Vitacom to do this. And we pay ****ing 200$/month for phone, internet and cable from Rogers, and that isn't ****ing good enough. We go through their stupid hoops in their PVR schedule to record the tv we watch, but sometimes there's too much overlap, or we miss something, or we don't get the station, and so we torrent. We can't live without internet, no way no how, even if we can live without cable and illegal torrents, so we can't even ****ing boycott Rogers properly to put pressure on them. And I'm also pretty damned sure the creators of South Park don't give a shit either. It's all Vitacom, or whatever it's called. They call the shots.

Last edited by Cavernio; 02-20-2012 at 09:38 AM.. Reason: if book link is broken, wikipedia page has coles notes version
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:41 AM   #70
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Default Re: ACTA is about to succeed

People tend to ignore long ass diatribes like the one posed directly beneath me.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:44 AM   #71
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People tend to ignore long ass diatribes like the one posed directly beneath me.
I thought it was worth reading and very interesting
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:48 AM   #72
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People tend to ignore long ass diatribes like the one posed directly beneath me.
I thought wildfireskunk's post was short and to the point, I am surprised you didn't say anything about the post above yours.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:10 AM   #73
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I thought wildfireskunk's post was short and to the point, I am surprised you didn't say anything about the post above yours.
I can always change it and make fun of his weird ass furry avatar. But I'll hold off for now since I'm about to go get food.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:43 AM   #74
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Default Re: ACTA is about to succeed

Cavernio made some good points. i just wanted to clarify some of the earlier posts though... Obama wasn't even president when the US signed onto ACTA in 2006 lol. Blame the black guy, much?

It should be obvious that GREED is the catalyst for all these events in the US. Corporations in America have the money to affect our law making process. There's the real problem. I can't say that for other countries, however. 20,000 people in the streets of Poland seem to have their heads on straight.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:42 AM   #75
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(TL;DR at bottom)

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Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
"Stopping online piracy isn't a bad thing. It's understandably illigal to download things like albums and software. We just need to go about it carefully so it doesn't censor the internet or invade anybody's privacy, or punish people into poverty."

Understandably illegal and incredibly moronically stupid, backwards, greedy yet illegal fall into the same category here.
I think your ideology is moronic, stupid, backwards, and greedy. I program for a living. I build things that aren't quite tangible and can be copied and distributed with even more ease than a 700MB movie. I spent a lot of time learning how to program and gaining my current level of skill, and it takes months, if not around a year to work on some projects. If it were legal and sociably accepted in the business world to distributed all my work for free, I would be out of a job and probably work in a factory the rest of my life. Could you please tell me how that's fair? Just because what I make isn't tangible doesn't make it any less wrong to steal. I pirate things all the time, although understanding the moral implications, but I don't really feel that guilty when I steal a movie off the internet from a giant faceless corporation although I still understand it's wrong.


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Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
When civilization figures out a way to not pay the tv networks (in a grand sense) of the world, and rather the individuals involved in actually creating a piece of art, perhaps we'll have a reason to get pissy about copyright laws.
How does Hollywood manage to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on some movies if they don't get any money? People who have created works of art like Larry David creating Seinfeld seem to be doing pretty well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
But even beyond art and simple human enjoyment and benefit of watching a movie, listening to a song, etc etc etc.
Copyright laws aren't perfect and I agree they do need to change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Copyright laws are artificial barriers, and they are throw-overs from a time past, and no longer serve their purpose in a publicly beneficial way. Instead, they're walls that coporations which control media use to keep themselves as wealthy as possible. As technology advances, society and how it functions should also advance.
Without copyright laws hard working individuals who work in a moral manner like myself would be out of work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
If you believe that downloading albums and software's illegal, think about your public library. Are libraries illegal? Why not? Man are they ballzy, they practically flaunt the fact that they not only have books for free, but yes! even movies and music. What has changed now from the industrial revolution when libraries became a 'thing', such that the idea of a digital libraries (ie: the internet) is wrong?
My mom works at a library and funny enough she was just talking about how the library can't possess certain fairly popular books/movies because the publishers won't allow it which I completely agree with. If you wrote a book, that it your intellectual property. People should be able to read your book and take the knowledge they learned from your book elsewhere but if the person who OWNS the intellectual property of the book doesn't want it in the library, I believe that person has every right to. Yes, people don't get to freely enjoy that person's property, but it's either that or she has no viable way of making a living doing what she does. If the intellectual property from books was allowed to be freely distributed as a law, and nobody bought books they just downloaded .pdfs and bought books from publishers, you'd have a lot less people writing books.


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Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
And what about second-hand stores? Selling your old CD collection is far worse...whoever buys them isn't even paying the artist! They're paying some third party that's unconnected to the original artist, clearly second-hand stores are an epidemic of mass proportions that will lead to the downfall of society. Intellectual property rights are creeuz bznis.
I agree with that being illegal 100% because of points you've just mentioned. The money doesn't make it to the people who deserve it. It's the same as online piracy. I'm pretty sure there's a disclaimer on a lot of things like that saying it's illegal to re-sell the item.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Ultimately, the difference between what's existed in terms of copyright infringment back then and now, is theease at which we can work around not paying for something.
The ease of it made it so far more people did it. With far more people doing it it becomes a problem actually worth some attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Technology, which brought about the whole idea of 'albums' in the first place because you were limited by the size of your record or the roll of your tape, has surpassed the need to have producers and marketers and especially labels. Societies' have just been slow in catching up.
Then artists are free to do that. It doesn't all of a sudden make it unethical for corporations to sign into agreements with artists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
People aren't slow to change, but filthy rich people who have innordinate power due to our free market philosophies, understandably, aren't ready to relinquish the Royal status that they have.
Again I'm sick of this idea that only the filthy rich benefit from intellectual ownership. It's plain wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Regardless if you think all this rambling is garbage though, fact is is that copyrights for individuals is 7 years vs ??? years for corporations, (thanks to Walt Disney apparently).
Agree'd


TL;DR
================================================== ==




I'd continue to quote bomb you but I'd be going over a lot of things so I'm just going to say my full opinion on it:


If I spend time and effort into making something, and I do indeed make something such as a computer program, a movie, a song, or a painting, that belongs to me because I made it, just like if somebody built a car with their own hands. It costs time, and money to do all of these things. It can take $100'000'000 to make a blockbuster, and can take tens of thousands of dollars to make the applications I deal with. It also takes knowledge and skill to do all of these things. Now I could keep everything I make to myself, or I can sell it to people under certain conditions. "If you buy my song, you're not allowed to distribute it to anybody else ok?" If you don't like that agreement, don't buy the song, it's not yours. You're not entitled to just take my song I've spend time and money on.

I agree copyright laws are long overdue for an overhaul, but this idea of it being perfectly fine and dandy to steal anything you want off the internet is totally retarded. Just because it's been done before in other ways doesn't make it right. The reason nobody cared about that so much back then was because those methods of going into second hand stores and stuff weren't really a big deal because it wasn't done nearly as much as online piracy today. Those other methods are still wrong assuming the terms and agreements say doing that isn't allowed. Your husband is in the wrong for downloaded somebody else's TV show, he only agrees to show people under certain conditions. I do it too. I hate this attitude of entitlement, just because something can be copied doesn't make it yours.

Last edited by fido123; 02-22-2012 at 10:06 AM..
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