ATTENTION EVERYONE: Start posting on the official Stepmania forum.

[Arch0wl]

I'm posting this on multiple sites (RFraction, ODI, FFR, SMO) because I think this is in the interest of all of those who play keyboard Stepmania, not just any particular website.

So far I have roughly 30 posts on the official Stepmania forum, and I've noticed two things:

1) This is mainly where decisions regarding the program's development are made.

2) There are no keyboard players, and if there are they don't post very much

In other words, even though the vast majority of Stepmania's audience plays on a keyboard, the decisions being made for the program are solely because of their representation on that forum. Because the majority of people who post there are outspoken pad players, the decisions made are without regard to keyboard players, at all. The otherwise civil posts I have made so far have been met with a condescending tone that I haven't heard since sites like DDRManiaX were popular in 2003-2004.

I ask you, to those who make simfiles or have more than 100 posts on this forum: do you want the decisions of a game you regularly contribute to run by people that consider you stupid and blatantly disregard what you would like to see just because they don't like you? Stepmania is an open-source game, you should have a voice in the process of its development; do you want its development to cater to a small minority?

If not, post on the forum. I am not asking you to post on my threads, or to post on specific issues. I am asking you to become regular members of that community and post as you would here.

[Arch0wl]

For those who think I'm exaggerating, here are quotes from regulars on the official SM forum in response to requests for features that would benefit keyboard players:

A: the community is ****

B: files should be made in "make sense" style, not for any particular keyboard pattern crap.

C: honestly, everything, no matter how retardedly complex, should be designed for pad, and keyboarded if people want to.. i mean, you could have 2000+ notes in 2 minutes, if they were patterned correctly, which 99% of keyboard files are not. hince why "index" is so hard for spread files.

D: Seriously kids, GTF off of SM and play a real finger based game, ok?

Originally Posted by user with 2490 posts

Keyboard play is just something thats there, because it makes sense to exist in the software (file testing anyone?) and was a nice way to play before people started to make idiotic notecharts that are crammed with arrows. Most of these kiddies you see with keyboard youtube videos and such either cant afford a pad, cant afford an adaptor, suck so bad they are scared to promote their pad play abilities, or actually hate pad play, (in which case, they really should just go away and play something else.)

Stepmania was designed, at its core, as a Dance game Simulator, and a basic engine for music games, but again, mainly focusing on dance games, proven thru ITG and PIU Pro. Declaring just becasue of internet reports that keybaord players outweigh pad players is by definition a rather stupid arguments, when you add in the fact of people playing non-SM based games (Core PIU and DDR) the numbers totaly change.

..and besides, everyone knows my thoughts on keyboard play: stop being a wuss and play IIDX.

But seriously, your complaints are really ungrounded, and the keyboard claim is a prime example of what has destroyed, and will continue to destroy, many aspects of SM, and SM based communities.

Originally Posted by user with 615 posts

who cares about Keyboard players.

go play Beatmania if you're so hellbent on non-cheating and noteskins.

Originally Posted by user with 3060 posts

people that whine about [faked keyboard scores] are idiots, FYI.

Originally Posted by user with 320 posts

but people who play spread are stupid

[tweak62]

Originally Posted by user with 320 posts

but people who play spread are stupid

hi everybody, im mr 320 posts

i just find it awfully funny that i state my opinion and people go nuts

god forbid people should use their feet to play a game called stepmania

go mod the source and make your own game for...button...hitting...revolution?

and i love the fact you guys want to "further" smo but no dont want to post at the place they make it! how grand!

also my aim is tweak62 have fun lets chat and be friends and we can compare our MA's and AAA's on ****ty dragonforce songs

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by tweak62

hi everybody, im mr 320 posts

i just find it awfully funny that i state my opinion and people go nuts

god forbid people should use their feet to play a game called stepmania

go mod the source and make your own game for...button...hitting...revolution?

and i love the fact you guys want to "further" smo but no dont want to post at the place they make it! how grand!

also my aim is tweak62 have fun lets chat and be friends and we can compare our MA's and AAA's on ****ty dragonforce songs

Why hello there.

GTFO FFR if your simply here to raise hell.

[midimanXG]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Why hello there.

GTFO FFR if your simply here to raise hell.

uh, isn't that what arch0wl and everyone else is doing ( Not on purpose but most of the people who act like they're getting bullied.. ) ?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by jugglinguy

Why don't the padders just make their own SM then? Keyboarders # > padders #

Uh, that's what SM was intended for. SMO only exists in the main build for some inane reason that no-one knows.

by your logic, we should all buy ps3 because the people who like graphics > the people who like games that don't suck :V

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by midimanXG

uh, isn't that what arch0wl and everyone else is doing ( Not on purpose but most of the people who act like they're getting bullied.. ) ?

You miss my point

For A0 to go over to Sm.com and try to fight Pad players for such little changes is just stupid, but on the otherside of the token for SM.com to come over to FFR and start bull**** is just wrong.

EDIT: oh sorry I think I missed your point....maybe.

[Loot You]

Originally Posted by midimanXG

uh, isn't that what arch0wl and everyone else is doing ( Not on purpose but most of the people who act like they're getting bullied.. ) ?

EDIT:

Uh, that's what SM was intended for. SMO only exists in the main build for some inane reason that no-one knows.

by your logic, we should all buy ps3 because the people who like graphics > the people who like games that don't suck :V

Uh, uh uh uh uh uh uh :V :V

i didn't know anybody played stepmania with pads

[-Laggy-]

This whole thing about "playing on keyboard is dumb cause it's not the way it was meant to be played" is just utterly retarded. To me that sounds much like if, say, a game developer got mad at a player because he wasn't playing his game with the default button configuration. For one thing, playing on a pad costs money which is something that some people don't have lying around, as opposed to keyboard play. So basically if you're not ready to spend money on the game, they'd rather have you not play at all. Seriously, what makes these guys hate keyboard players so much, I fail to see any sense in this.

[massflavour]

Originally Posted by tweak62

hi everybody, im mr 320 posts

i just find it awfully funny that i state my opinion and people go nuts

god forbid people should use their feet to play a game called stepmania

the concept of pad play is just as dumb. I mean c'mon. Why don't you do actual dance and not this lame tapping your feet on a metal pad ****? seriously. all ddr related games are dumb.




in case you didn't realize that's what you sound like

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by tweak62

hi everybody, im mr 320 posts

i just find it awfully funny that i state my opinion and people go nuts

god forbid people should use their feet to play a game called stepmania

go mod the source and make your own game for...button...hitting...revolution?

and i love the fact you guys want to "further" smo but no dont want to post at the place they make it! how grand!

also my aim is tweak62 have fun lets chat and be friends and we can compare our MA's and AAA's on ****ty dragonforce songs

i'm horribly confused as to just WHY you all seem to think an entire separate game is necessary when stepmania functions perfectly as a keyboard-based game. NO ONE (save a select few) is "forbidding" you from playing on pad, simply asking that the game's developers try to cater to EVERYONE (especially, you know, the MAJORITY OF ITS USERBASE) when programming, rather than being biased toward pad players simply because the game resembles DDR.

the fact is, stepmania as a keyboard game has grown so much because, as a keyboard game, it is simply more playable than as a pad game. why bother playing stepmania on pad at all i wonder? there are machines for it everywhere. theres obviously nothing wrong with playing sm on pad, but there's CERTAINLY nothing wrong with playing it on keyboard, and the fact that it has gained so much popularity should signal to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, it can and should function as a keyboard based game.

and midi guy, my -point- is that you state your claim that no one cares about keyboard players, they are worthless, etc etc, and yet you play the damn keyboard game yourself.

edit: rofl ninja'd so fucking hard

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by midiman

I also play pad and im not an AAA master, but there's less tension there because there's an actual phsyical limitation and learning curve to it, and a decently large one.

I play pad as well and some time in late March or early April I am about to release a pack, done entirely by Darkmage and myself, that contains roughly 70 pad files. Keep in mind I'm not trying to overtake pad and believe pad and keyboard modes can coexist in the game without catering to one or the other.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

For A0 to go over to Sm.com and try to fight Pad players for such little changes is just stupid

I'm not "going over to SM.com" to "fight pad players" for changes. I've had an account registered at Stepmania.com for quite some time, and only recently after I suggested a 7-arrow mode did I realize that a small minority of the people on stepmania.com are making decisions for players that outnumber them a hundredfold.

You're mistaking being a polemic for being concerned with our voices being heard. I've dealt with this issue since I've been in the community, and I don't think it's fair to currently have such disregard on the part of the SM higher-ups when we (FFR, ODI, RFraction, SMO, and the various international SM communities in Sweden, Chile, Italy, France, China, and elswhere) are the reason SM is ranked what it is on alexa in the first place.

Originally Posted by tweak

first off, if i knew it was arch i wouldnt even have wasted my time posting in that other thread.

OK? What do you expect to gain by saying this other than expressing how low your opinion of me is? It's not related to the issue.

Originally Posted by tweak

SM is there to emulate other music games-and thats what the dev team works on.

SM, like all open-source projects, is there to be what the community wants it to be. Your description ("SM is this and the devs will decide that") follows more of a closed-source design, such as DWI.

Originally Posted by tweak62

hi everybody, im mr 320 posts

i just find it awfully funny that i state my opinion and people go nuts

No one cares about your opinion. They care about being a part of a vast majority that plays SM and being ignored by the people that create it.

Originally Posted by tweak62

god forbid people should use their feet to play a game called stepmania

go mod the source and make your own game for...button...hitting...revolution?

and i love the fact you guys want to "further" smo but no dont want to post at the place they make it! how grand!

We shouldn't have to make an alternate game for what we've been doing in the first place. We outnumber you by a very large margin. The stepmania.com website is synonymous with stepmania whether you like it or not, and being in such a centralized location means that to make an alternate build is to become something different entirely, when so many keyboard sites, simfiles, and what have you are so entwined with it.

Saying what you're suggesting would not only take vastly more work than to convince the developers to cater to our needs, but it would split the community. I don't think you're really quite aware how many keyboard communities there are in the first place.

Originally Posted by midiman

uh, isn't that what arch0wl and everyone else is doing ( Not on purpose but most of the people who act like they're getting bullied.. ) ?

I can't speak for anyone else, but my posts on stepmania.com, here, ODI, RF, and SMO were to rally people to start a keyboard presence on the official forum so that our voices will be heard by the developers. The only reason you can get away with such dismissive, condescending comments like the ones you've said earlier is because there are none of us around to hear it.

Originally Posted by midiman

no-one here seems to wants to have people stop hating them, I'm guessing they like it this way

The goal is not to be liked but rather to have our voice recognized by the developers and have features such as anti-cheat, better and more extensive mods, the features outlined in this theme and 7-arrow mode (among others) implemented into the default game.

Originally Posted by midiman

this is one thing, but every communities retards over-shadow the intelligents. its the same case with Keyboard players and our view upon them, except there's barely no way to make content for the game, which means no smart people

ODI currently houses two people that have gotten perfect scores on the SAT, multiple people that have been accepted to ivy-league or equivalent universities such as MIT, and an average IQ of 115 according to results from iqtest.dk, a test normed by MENSA Denmark. SAT scores above 2000 are commonplace in academic ODI threads.

Additionally, two other users (not the same ones with perfect SATs) have scored in the 99th percentile of the LSAT, the test which is basically the anchor weight on law school admission: Kefit and Reach. Reach, in addition, has scored in the 99.999th percentile on DAT reasoning, and another popular contributor to the scene, t0rajir0u, scored 1270 on the old style SAT in 6th grade.

In other words, your characterization of keyboard players as unintelligent has no basis.

Originally Posted by Sniper

SM was MEANT TO BE PLAYED on pad, so of course us from SM.com are going to think that. We're right, you're wrong. That simple. Kthxbai.

Calm down and act like an adult. We outnumber you substantially, thus you will lose if you attempt to reduce the conflict to a shouting match.

[tweak62]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

We outnumber you

what the hell am i? i dont play stepmania. i dont hate keyboard players, or support pad players. i just dont like spread.

i dont even play the damn game, i couldnt care less about if pad players think they are superior

its fine to request whatever you want; just see that whatever gets requested, including things that would help expand the game and make it better, are often neglected for whatever reason.

with the way things have been, you'd be better off doing it yourself and committing it. everyone would win then, right?

[foilman8805]

Don't double post.

EDIT: Just for cetaka, this is in the wrong forum.

EDIT2: I'm not trying to be a douche, I know A0 isn't a nub. I just said 'don't double post', and 'this is in the wrong forum' because I feel like A0 is trying to drag FFR into his own personal conflicts with the SM community, and I could pretty much care less. I've never heard any complaints about SM - why? Because nothing is wrong with it. The whole KB vs. Pad players argument holds no validity and is about on par with a 1st grader's reasoning abilities. There's nothing wrong with playing pad, and there's nothing wrong with playing keyboard.

*shrug*

[cetaka]

wow, some of the responses you got (particularly here lmao) were really, really douchey. tbh though I'm not exactly sure why there would need to be a significant keyboard-player presence there. for one thing, it would probably get shouted down as you were. and really, although I may be alone on this, I would be perfectly happy if the stepmania developers all quit the project now; 3.9 is absolutely fine for everything that I've ever wanted to do.

in short, everything that can be invented regarding stepmania already has been.



edit: ( You're a ****ing idiot, look at you're ****ing avatar.)

[Arch0wl]

regarding being in the "wrong forum": the brag board is the de facto SM board on FFR, regardless of its title.

Originally Posted by cetaka

tbh though I'm not exactly sure why there would need to be a significant keyboard-player presence there.

There's still a number of features that could be added to greatly benefit keyboard players but haven't.

Such as:

Anti-cheat
7-arrow mode
A more elaborate results screen that better reflects your score
A better in-game interface
Others, I have to leave in 5 minutes so I can't think of everything off the top of my head

[masamursha]

k stepmania.com sucks lmfao

[foilman8805]

[dore]

I'm not posting on a forum with that many douchefags.

[masamursha]

lol douchefag

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by dore

I'm not posting on a forum with that many douchefags.

So what if they're douches? Ignore them and post there anyway, and act like an adult so you can appear more calm, civil and mature than they do. It will benefit you in the long run. Not doing so is your (and the community's) loss.