The way it should be.

[Privateer]

PLEASE READ EVERYTHING

Everything (highest authority): Synthlight, nestlekwik (as far as I know, he already has all power. Am I wrong? According to LD, bprc isn't associated with the site anymore, so I trashed him.)

Radio Coordinator (fully controls radio, no forum powers): SpookG

Forum Administrators (full forum powers): jewpinthethird and two other people (I'm not specifying who I think would make the ideal administrators, but Arch0wl [after some small behavioral reformation] and Spec could do the job well enough.)

EDIT: No, I don't think Arch would make the ideal administrator. Read it more carefully before IMing/posting.

FFR League (moderating powers in respective forums): lightdarkness, Freak83, and TasselFoot (I think the FFR League shouldn't exist until R2. Even then should the league be redesigned.)

There are other people that have special jobs for FFR, but aren't any higher, in position, than a regular member of FFR, save the people that did things like make/supply our chat and whatever.

People will only associate themselves with their own job. A chat moderator can only be as involved with matters that concern the forums as a regular member can. Just as the FFR League coordinators would not help make decisions with chat moderators about the chat. This allows staff to be more objective and their judgements unbiased. If you have the right people in the right spots on staff, the only opinions needed for making a decision will be your staff partner (other people with your job), and yourself.

There are obviously some things that would be tweaked, but this is about what will produce the best results. Making these changes won't make FFR all better (it's not like this would happen, anyway), but it would be a step. Motivation and incentive are mostly what Synth needs to take the forums to the next level.

I understand there will not be much change to the forums from what they are now. The forums are somewhat in check, so Synth moves on. He has more important things to do. It's unfortunate, though.

LATE EDIT: I can't say who should be in the chat, or what changes should be made to it. I've been going in there more recently, but I am still just getting a better idea of what goes on in there.

[Jello]

Nestle is not above spook when it comes to authority.. neither is BPRC

arch need to watch himself or he will find himself without power again..

people need to stfu and stop with the bitching or synth is going to start banning people..

stop flaming, stop making everything a competition and most of all, Do not respond to shit that people say.. let it go and move on

thats all that needs to be done... maybe a new admin or 2 because of all the stuff thats needed to be looked after , but if people would just listen to that then everything would be fine.

Separation of powers isn't a good idea on forums. It's a better idea to make sure there's a unified staff that is comfortable making decisions with each other. Otherwise, you get power rivalries and feuds between groups of admins/mods.

For the most part, the current administration team works well as a team, with each other. Let's keep it that way.

[Privateer]

Power rivalries and feuds? We're not running a country. Especially when you look at how few people there are in this staff I propose, and who they are. Give me an example scenario of how the powers could clash.

Similar to what Socrates said, and for the same reasons, it's better to have concentrated authority. I've noticed, on a few occasions, that people that don't directly pertain to issues on the forums influence the decisions of the decision makers for the worse.

EDIT: It's not like the people that are in the chat can't help the people in the forums. They have insight on users from other aspects, so they offer some importance to those decisions. I'm saying you can't have everyone as involved as they are in everything. I've seen staff that gives bad input on things that aren't related to their contributions to FFR. I just don't want to see that.

[Arch0wl]

Privateer I can sum this up with you're just mad because you were never made a mod. Period.

I've been on here so long that I've witnessed all this crap happen and before I was promoted you were constantly on your knees for a mod position, saying how you'd make a good mod.

This is the worst suggestion ever, and it'd be ridiculous for anyone to follow this. Yeah you might as well reset everyone's account and all the forum posts too

Right now it looks like you (plus a few other people) are just trying to find reasons or excuses to demod people because you have a slight dislike for them.

Yes, anyone can find flaws in the way someone does their mod position job. It's really easy when you're just a user. You can say "oh you should do this" or "oh you can do this" and that's why so many people are great when they first are modded, because they notice these things RIGHT away. Then after awhile they stop looking at it from a user position and from a staff perspective, and they stop noticing these things. It's common.

With a forum as spontaneous as this one it's ridiculous to try and keep it as organized as you desire. I can think of one or two other staff members that would make good mods but they're not needed, we have a good enough team as it is. Yeah whatever you need to be professional but there's a big difference between being professional and being overly professional. Shit the livingwithstyle forums aren't even that professional and they're a forum that deals with real money coded into the forums and stuff and it works out great for them.

Seriously Privateer, just get over yourself.

[lightdarkness]

I 100% agree with Jello and Arch.

[Privateer]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

Privateer I can sum this up with you're just mad because you were never made a mod. Period.

I've been on here so long that I've witnessed all this crap happen and before I was promoted you were constantly on your knees for a mod position, saying how you'd make a good mod.

I wasn't on my knees. I made one post about it, and I left it at that. I never showed further public interest or made a post about it after January 11 (the end of that topic). Show me where I mention it elsewhere please.

EDIT: I want to reiterate--I am NOT making this post because I am not an administrator. I did not present myself as person suited to be an administrator. I haven't demonstrated the attitude people would look for in an administrator. I talked about it once, and that's it. Look at the edit below to see why I posted this.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

This is the worst suggestion ever, and it'd be ridiculous for anyone to follow this. Yeah you might as well reset everyone's account and all the forum posts too

Why? Why is it so ridiculous? It's not even as big of a change as you think...It's basically seperating powers a bit, and taking away the power from three people.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

Right now it looks like you (plus a few other people) are just trying to find reasons or excuses to demod people because you have a slight dislike for them.

The people that would be at risk of losing their staff position, following my proposal (two would stay as admins), are Cenright, 87x, lightdarkness, Specforces, and you. I don't have problems with these people. As a matter of fact, you are person with which I have the second least developed relationship with, yet I still said you would be a fine administrator...

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

Yes, anyone can find flaws in the way someone does their mod position job. It's really easy when you're just a user. You can say "oh you should do this" or "oh you can do this" and that's why so many people are great when they first are modded, because they notice these things RIGHT away. Then after awhile they stop looking at it from a user position and from a staff perspective, and they stop noticing these things. It's common.

Well, that's why you should follow through with the ideas you get from users. That's how you continue the changes if you can't notice them once you become a staff member. If it's so easy to find flaws in someone, then why don't the mods help eachother improve?

So what is wrong with what I said? If you are going to disagree with it (which I expected from almost everyone), tell me what it is you disagree with, specifically, and why.

I'm thinking of making a second version of my first post...

---

EDIT: I've never been particularly pleased with the staff, but the handling of two recent events really put me over the edge. That's the cause for my suggestions and ideas finally meeting the forums.

[talisman]

arch, was it really necessary to question privateer's motivations for making this topic?

I mean, respond to the content of his post, not why he made it. I mean, it's cool to think whatever about why he might have posted it, but it really isn't that relevant as far as posting it goes....

[Kilgamayan]

I think people are downplaying this more because of who posted it than what got posted.

[IAMTHEEVILBEAN]

You forgot the forum asshole group.

[Privateer]

Now is not the time to joke around.

[IAMTHEEVILBEAN]

I was being serious.

And I agree with Privateer.

Privateer would make a better admin than some of the ones we have here right now.

And what happend to Cenright and 87x?

Also, its obvious why the forums feud.

There are people like Moogy who make pointless, yet funny threads just to be random. Every forum needs a few of these people.

There are also people who react to those threads, or a simple joke against them in outrage. </Jello>

Then there are just the rest of the idiots who still cant figure out why their toaster wont hook up to ffr.

I honestly dont think the two groups will get along.

SOLUTION.

Neutral mods.

LD, not nuetral at all, more on the, hey be nice you can't post that, stick to the ffr league.

87x - ASks like 467436 questions and always needs help on something, otehrwse he doesnt do anything

Cenright - yeah...

Arch0wl - Consider keeping an admin or at least a chat mod, he has done a good job and is pretty nuetral.

Specforces - Definate CT mod, f nto admin still. nuetral

jewpin - Admin, never takes sides

Some other suggestions

Privateer, Kilgamayan

[Privateer]

Biased as hell, but thanks. :P

Make sure you all read my edits.

I've made like...50 of them.

[Anticrombie0909]

I talked with Privateer a little about this, and I've thought a bit about how to respond.

At first glance I agreed with what he was saying. It's something that I've actually thought about for awhile now, although as he pointed out over AIM, it was for different reasons. I feel that first and foremost, the problem comes with the problem of law and order. Back when the forums were chaos (-er), nearly everyone (with the exception of a few) was clamouring for more mods and rules. My take on it was that Synth obviously put quite a bit of thought into who would become a mod, in order to keep people from tripping over their heels trying to get modded and then screwing things up once they actually scored the position.

However, for whatever reason, somebody screwed up. My philosophy kind of strays among "too many cooks spoil the broth," only in this it's more of a "too much bad seasoning spoils the broth."

What I'm going to say I say completely objectively and in the intrest of the forums and my opinion, and not a reflection on any parties involved.

I feel that some of the choices that were made were wrong. You see, each forum has a specific feel. The mods and posters on BMS are far more raunchy and different than they are here- they wouldn't fit in at all on this forum, and I wouldn't be suprised at a few bannings. Because this forum attracts such a drastically different clientele, the mods have to be drastically different as well as the rules.

I said this way back, way way back, and nobody agreed with me then or has since. But I always viewed certain people- mainly Synth, Jewpin, and Nestle in a certain light. They were moderators- they were always right, they always knew what they were talking about, they never flamed, were disrespectful, or let their opinions or emotions get in the way of their modding (sorry, 87x- whether or not you understand).

I have never viewed anyone on these forums in exactly the same light. Over at BMS, I viewed Cylicon and Celcius in that same kind of light, even though they'd never come close to being modded here. For those of you who don't realize what I'm hinting at, basically, there's something special about those who can be modded.

Basically, I'm just rambling. I've spent countless hours thinking about this, actually. Not this problem specifically, but society and social relations in general. Why do some people succeed and others fail? Why are some social and some antisocial? Why can I view some in that light and others I cannot?

I will say one thing- I've nailed every single person who was going to be modded as of late. I guessed that Cen would be the first mod (I said either him or Freak), and he was. I suspected Arch would be modded, as well as Spec and LD. I even figured Arch would get unmodded, even though it's never happened before. One person that I always thought would be good at the job, and was suprised when my intuition didn't follow through, was Kilga. Smart, funny, an excellent simfile maker- he had all the requirements. I wouldn't mind knowing why that was.

Edit: Privateer, I hate to dredge up old news, but it has to be said...a while back, you might have made a decent mod, and in recent times you've become much more worthy. However, I think the whole "Fire" issue has to be resolved before that will ever happen. Like I said, I hate to bring it up, but it's hanging over all of our heads, and until the smoke clears, we won't be able to shoot straight.

My ramblings are basically finished. While I don't agree specifically with what Privateer is saying, he's hinting at the right idea. We need to have, basically, a Hiearchy. Synth, Nestle, Jewpin, BPRC and Spook would be at the top- they've never done anything that would require review. An Admin privilage should not be handed out lightly- which is why we're brought to the next step of the pyramid, a mod. A mod would be able to lock topics, post stickies, etc.- but be restricted from banning, messing with the website, etc. Beyond that, mods should go under periodic review, and if they're not living up to expectations, someone should talk to them, although Synth, you or someone else no doubt discussed with Arch0wl his shortcomings in the weeks before he was unmodded.

Second Edit: I have just been informed the actual difference between an admin and a mod. To clear up all misconceptions, here it is- mods have to be assigned to a usergroup, meaning they might be restricted to modding a singular topic. Admins have access to the entire forum at once. Just a little FYI.

In all honesty, I never thought we needed more mods. We simply needed a means to an end, that end being more order. You can stick all the policemen in the world in a city, but if they're as dirty as the crooks crime won't be solved. LD is too nice, 87x and Arch allow their emotions and opinions to get in the way, and Cenright is never online.

Does my post have a theme? Not really. Basically, I just rambled on about what I see the problems are. Feel free to pick it apart and interpet it as you will.

[lightdarkness]

Why does me being nice have anything to do with my mod'ing ability?

And fyi, even though im a forum admin, i dont have acess to the site administration pannel, and i cannot ban people.

I can do everything a mod can, except my name is in orange.

[Specforces]

Well just realize, in the end, there is no difference between a forum moderator and a forum administrator on this site. The only real difference: Forum Moderators need to be assigned to a specific forum via usergroup. Admins naturally have edit access to all forums. Forum Admins have no banning ability or any admin panel access. Ie. the inner workings of the site. Furthermore, Cenright, the only mod, has access to all forums save the league ones.

No difference really.

Specforces

[Privateer]

The Fire issue is resolved. The issue has been discontinued, and I agreed to not stand up for my cause. You have nothing to say sorry for. Like I said, I stopped expressing interest in becoming a mod almost 6 months ago...

I read everything you said, and you sounded like my grandmother. You could have made the same points in 1/3 of the text. Whatever. :P