Ingame Song Information

[emulord]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I agree 13s should be "off the scale"
Imo, the 13s should only be RATO, DP, vRofl, party 4u v1, OMGWTFT0KEN, (Speedcore 300)
They require ridiculous speed for a extended duration.

Crowdpleaser, La Camp, Revolutionary have very hard sections, but overall are easier than the other 13s. Winter wind etude/ A quick death is almost up there for difficulty, but I still feel its high 12.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Outside of that roll wall, Chick Habit's not even that bad compared to many others like Kidney Stone, Eclipse, and Magical 8-bit Tour. La camp, Winter Wind, and OMW are at the end of the FGO spectrum. AQD is upper-high, but is by no means harder than Eclipse and Almost There, both of which are way harder and if you are talking about FSO, deserve to be there more than Chick Habit and AQD. Also, I feel 13's are really for 'over the top' files. The difference between Sparkle Downer and Winter Wind feels less that the insane difference between Winter Wind and RATO. I mean, it goes from 'k, I can do this but some parts are so hard I have to mash WTF' to 'wow this is hard, I mean, I can see the notes, but my fingers won't follow, I'm sure someone out there could do it, but I never will' to 'OMFGWTF is this shit? Who made this flaming pile of crap? How can anyone hit these let alone see them? WTF? This is humanly impossible!' (then Rubix show's up). That's how I feel about Sparkle Downer - Eclipse/WWE - RATO

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

RATO isn't actually as bad as it seems. Basically you've got 240bpm jumpstream (with a few jacks) and roll walls which require hitting 8th and 12th jacks. Same with DP, most of the patterns are either long 12th jack patterns, or 16th jumpgluts at 150-200 bpm.

My point here isn't that these files should be easy and doable to a good player - they shouldn't - but that the patterns are generally reasonable enough that someone with a lot of speed and decent stamina can read and hit them. So actually I'd say that the distance between WWE and RATO is not too high - we're comparing 200bpm js with lots of extra 32nds in it, to 240bpm js with lots of roll walls. RATO is certainly fast enough that most people will never be able to hit it accurately, but in terms of the raw speed and reading ability required, it's actually not all that far from the highest FGOs. This compared to Sparkle vs WWE, where you have one file that feels like a high VC except for a bunch of very tricky sections, compared to something that is tough to read, even tougher to hit, and so long and dense that almost everyone will be tired by the end.

[Niala]

Re: Ingame Song Information

That's basically the point I've been trying to make. The comparison between high FGO's and FSO is a lot closer than low FGO's and high FGO's.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Ingame Song Information

RATO isn't actually as bad as it seems. Basically you've got 240bpm jumpstream (with a few jacks) and roll walls which require hitting 8th and 12th jacks. Same with DP, most of the patterns are either long 12th jack patterns, or 16th jumpgluts at 150-200 bpm.

My point here isn't that these files should be easy and doable to a good player - they shouldn't - but that the patterns are generally reasonable enough that someone with a lot of speed and decent stamina can read and hit them. So actually I'd say that the distance between WWE and RATO is not too high - we're comparing 200bpm js with lots of extra 32nds in it, to 240bpm js with lots of roll walls. RATO is certainly fast enough that most people will never be able to hit it accurately, but in terms of the raw speed and reading ability required, it's actually not all that far from the highest FGOs. This compared to Sparkle vs WWE, where you have one file that feels like a high VC except for a bunch of very tricky sections, compared to something that is tough to read, even tougher to hit, and so long and dense that almost everyone will be tired by the end.

This is an excellent point.

I'm starting to think players are just mashing through RATO and Death Piano simply because they're labeled as 13s. Look at RATO objectively - it's a lot of 16th jumpstreams at 240 bpm (which isn't that bad) but with a lot of difficulty spikes (the bursts), with some really bad anchors. Death Piano has 16th gluts at the end which go up to 200 bpm I believe, which actually isn't that bad since it's short lived. Think of the speedup in the middle of Death Piano with the quads as a somewhat faster version of the ending of Across Rooftops (which doesn't get mashed but the speedup in Death Piano does l0l), it's really not as bad as it seems.

So guys, how about a wider difficulty range? 1-13 is just way too close when determining difficulties like that.

[Niala]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I think that's a wonderful idea. Try 1-15, I think it makes a lot more sense. You can even join some of the higher FMO's in with the lower FGO's with that idea.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

It's been proposed before

We could do something like this:
10 ("VC") = current low to mid-high VC
11 ("FEO") = high/technical VC and low FMO
12 ("FMO") = mid-high FMO and very low FGO
13 ("FGO") = mid-high FGO
14 ("FSO") = current FSO
15 (no name) = vrofl :3

[Niala]

Re: Ingame Song Information

That's cul, although difficulty 14, IMO, would be FSO's and the really high FGO's, i.e. Revo, WWE, Gigadelic, p4uv1, etc. But basically that's what I was looking for.

[XxMidigamixX]

Re: Ingame Song Information

It's been proposed before

We could do something like this:
10 ("VC") = current low to mid-high VC
11 ("FEO") = high/technical VC and low FMO
12 ("FMO") = mid-high FMO and very low FGO
13 ("FGO") = mid-high FGO
14 ("FSO") = current FSO
15 (no name) = vrofl :3

+1 support.

Also, as for the songs and the difficulties, I agree for the most part of the files. Plus, its practically similar to the SM difficulty scale (with the exception of charts that are ranked beyond 15). As for the high FGOs and FSOs, it is true that people are flailing on their kb because of that, but it could also be because of the set-up that they're playing in and the speedmod (Though for the set-up I doubt it since the majority are playing spread, but we still have some one-handers, pettanko players [for the lulz], and indexers if there is still any). But the more I see the files (by playing and watching replays), they're not bad at all, it just have high difficulty spikes at certain spot of the file and I certainly see that some files are either easier or harder than it should be (eg: some of the VCs, Nitrix, and some other files that I can't put my finger on...). But comparing the files here to DF's engine, TS, and KBO, the files here aren't overall too difficult to deem impossible (with the exception of vROFL, and Speedcore 300) to pass, FC and AAA. Either way, a change in the difficulty system is needed imo.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

how is gigadelic still an FGO? Seriously...it's stamina draining as **** and is full of icky icky jumps, jacks, and plenty of fast ass stream. It's an easy 13. But yeah, I'm all for that difficulty.

Also, as of now, I feel scavanger could be low VC, but Fast Asleep is definitely low FMO, if we moved Variations, we need to move Fast Asleep. Song's a bitch of fast, hard to read, and dense patterns at about 3 points, the rest is already mid-high VC so those parts should push it up.

[emulord]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Fast asleep is only hard for about 20 notes at a time, and the rest of the time its easy. So Its like a 8 with a few parts that are 11. So overall its a 10. Sure its really hard to AAA, but mashing a little bit through the bursts you can get decent PA without being really good.

[xXAll-ProXx]

Re: Ingame Song Information

It's been proposed before

We could do something like this:
10 ("VC") = current low to mid-high VC
11 ("FEO") = high/technical VC and low FMO
12 ("FMO") = mid-high FMO and very low FGO
13 ("FGO") = mid-high FGO
14 ("FSO") = current FSO
15 (no name) = vrofl :3

+1

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

PS, admins, if you're looking at the 1-15 approach, I'd be willing to do a preliminary write-up of which songs would go in which categories. We can move stuff around later due to player complaints etc. but it would save you a lot of time.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Fast asleep is only hard for about 20 notes at a time, and the rest of the time its easy. So Its like a 8 with a few parts that are 11. So overall its a 10. Sure its really hard to AAA, but mashing a little bit through the bursts you can get decent PA without being really good.

I could say the same about Sparkle Downer being FMO. It has literally one part above FMO difficulty, and the rest is some FMO but mostly VC. Yet it's FGO. Fast Asleep has many parts and patterns way harder than most VC's, and it's more like a high 9 low 10 for most, definitely not an 8.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Also, Puzzle is easier, and is really only hard at one part as well, and that part is much easier to read and nowhere near as fast as in Fast Asleep