Suicide

[hatakikakashi]

What do you think? Should it be illegal? Why do people do it?

[Meteor858]

ummm ok well i have depression and attempt suicide on a regular basis so heres what i think...
I think that its an escape from this so called life used by people like me who see no true happiness in being alive.
I think it shouldnt be illegal because its a great way of solving problems that are otherwise unsolvable.
We do it to escape from the bad in the world?
You get it now dip ****?

[hatakikakashi]

FYI it is illegal. I personally don't think it should be, and I don't understand how you are punished for it but it IS. And what's with the hostility, you don't know anything about me or why I want to know what other people think about this. Believe me when I say I'm not trying to be offensive to you or anyone. I have depression also and have struggled with strong and frequent thoughts about commiting suicide, and wanted to see what OTHER PEOPLE are thinking and feeling. So please take this as an apology for not wording it more openly. I didn't want to have to go on about my own problems because noone else cares about me but me. I wanted to know what YOU think.

[GuidoHunter]

Easy, Meteor. No need for flaming.

What do you mean by "this so called life"? I've got news, buddy, there's nothing "so-called" about it. This is your life and you only get one.

Should it be illegal? Well, if you succeed there's obviously nothing to be done. If you fail, though, I don't see why it should be punished. Honestly, I don't think putting someone in prison will be the deterrant of future attempts. Sure, it is tantamount to murder, but I still don't think punishing it would have any of the effects that the punishment is supposed to have.

I feel that anyone who commits suicide is just too weak to handle life. I've got nothing but scorn for suicide and find it to be incredibly stupid.

There are plenty of ways to escape the bad in the world rather than giving up like a crybaby.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Meteor858]

sry i was angry when i posted that, lol
well by this so called life i meant that for me, it isnt a life. Can you call wakin up every morning wishing you were dead, and the only thing to look forward to is the hatred from others a life?

[hatakikakashi]

Yours may be a difficult life, or a very sad one, but every life is still worth something. I think you should see it through untill it ends naturally. Try to take things into your own hands and squeeze this existence for all you can. I'm not going to promise you that things will get better, that's stupid. But I will say that it can get better. Life is fluid and everchanging. It flows up and down. That's what I have to tell myself sometimes. I think to myself, "Just wait and see what happens next."

[Meteor858]

i already know whats gonna happen next, life gonna get harder and harder, worse and worse until i do die
any comments Dip ****?

[Benny1]

I never really got suicide, it doesn't help a thing, it just makes things worse for other people. I think it should be illegal, although that out be pretty hard to enforce.

[Kilgamayan]

any comments Dip (#$%?

Shut up with the flaming. Warning #1.

[Moogy]

emo alert

[Tsuteto]

Suicide... it's only a simple escape for people in their eyes, but is it truly escaping at all? I mean, if you think about it, is it really worth the fear of knowing that once you do it, your chances of not surviving are high? And what about the people you left behind? Your family and friends? Didn't your friends not choose YOU to be a companion? Did not your parents raise you, whether they were your birth parents or ones who took you in, despite where you came from or what nationality you are?

Yeah, suicide isn't the smartest thing. It's one of those things where, yes, it can be seen as an 'escape'. However, those who commit suicide or attempted to do so just don't want to take the time to look at something else to help escape. I prefer slashing of arms and such over suicide. At least they are still alive then. Also, people who go with suicide as their only option are just doing something to be a 'payback' to everyone in life. They say they don't have a life, but they're breathing, no?

[Tank101]

Watch some Rurouni Kenshin.

As Guido said, there is no point in making suicide illegal besides the fact that it may prevent a few people from doing it for whatever reason.

[Cenright]

Suicide is a mind being selfish. They aren't thinking clearly, and all they are thinking about are THEIR problems, RIGHT then. Someone contemplating suicide isn't thinking of how they will affect others.

[Omeganitros]

Jewpin owned this a long time ago.

Noob: "What's the point in living?"

Jewpin: "Entertainment."

Omega: "Woah. He's good."

[stretchypanda]

I'm surprised that everyone is jumping on the "suicide is selfish" bandwagon.

A very close friend of my family had the.. uh.. "privilege" of discovering the body of her ex-husband after he killed himself, and then, just before I started college, her only son -- again, the victim of suicide. The ex-husband suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (I think the hardship of dealing with that eventually led to their divorce). I'm going to venture a guess that some form of depression was passed on from father to son. No one knew he was in any kind of pain. Seriously. His mother saw him the day before he did it, and then she went to his house the next day and he was dead.

I'm not saying at all that I think suicide is okay. I know the pain it causes those left behind (my uncle by marriage also killed himself after my mom's sister divorced him). I'm just saying that it's not something that can be so easily pushed aside. Yeah, some people who consider and/or attempt suicide are just looking for what seems to be the only way out, but there are so many instances where a person is just trapped by something that is really, clinically wrong with him/her, and sometimes that can just take over.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, I forgot to post thoughts on this issue.

As far as I'm concerned, it's their life, it's their choice, and neither myself nor anyone else on the planet is in any position to rightfully judge their final desicion.

[Anticrombie0909]

Uh, if it's illegal, all that will do is make the suicidal person make damn sure he gets the job done.

Real effective.

As for suicide...anybody who condemns suicide obviously has never suffered from severe depression. I'm not talking about I GOT A B- ON MY TEST BOO HOO WOE IS ME, I'm talking about actual, clinical, chemical-imbalance depression. Having suffered from it without medication (my parents don't know) for a good ~3 years now, I can tell you that it's the worst feeling in the world. There is not anything that feels worse than severe depression. Nothing. I can promise you that. Why do you think people cut themselves? Because they want a way to make the pain they feel inside physical. They want to feel something, anything different than how they feel now, and even severe pain is better.

It's not a logical illness. You can't just say "talk yourself out of it" or "go get some friends loser." It's the most irrational illness around. It's like a phobia. You can scream at yourself to feel better till you're blue in the face, it won't matter. You can have a perfect life and have all the friends in the world, but none of that is worth anything when it comes to depression. It's like a drug that you're always taking, always addicted to, but never satisfied. There's no up, only down. You keep waiting for it to get better, you tell yourself that it's got to get better, and it never does. You just keep going down, down and down.

Don't ever take it lightly if somebody tells you they have depression. You honestly cannot even fathom how horrible it is. It's horrible enough to make somebody want to die. There's literally nothing else in the world like it.

[Meteor858]

anticrombie you took the words outta my mouth
No seriously it was very well put and very true
those of you who dont have depression cannot even fathom it
-meteor

[QreepyBORIS]

I know it's not supposed to be taken this way, but all the people suffering from depression sound almost ELITIST about it. :P

"You you guys can't imagine, don't try."


But I digress. (Attempted) Suicide should not be illegal, but the people should be seriously put on medication. Cause massive therapy would probably fail, anyways. And jail (using our heads, here) would be like the perfect thing to EXACERBATE the strength of the depression.

And I think Suicide is only actually ILLEGAL in England.

[Benny1]

Okay since we are on the topic, my friend is depressed apparently, because he took this medicine for his ADD a long time ago, and he keeps telling me he wants to suicide, I have no clue what to do, I try to help him get help, but he refuses, says people aren't ever trying to help, they just want to be rich bastards, he says he once had gotten help and he hated the person so much, he said it didn't help at all, he refuses entirely. I don't know what to do, it's really scary though, knowing my friend might kill himself. He also refuses to ask his parents if there is anything they can do too. I just don't get it, I'm not able to understand this stuff....

[Meteor858]

benny that kinda sounds like me.....
... what you should do if he ever gets suicidal like that say if your going im going to, so if he really is your friend he wont do it.
any more problems just ask
-meteor

[stretchypanda]

benny that kinda sounds like me.....
... what you should do if he ever gets suicidal like that say if your going im going to, so if he really is your friend he wont do it.
any more problems just ask
-meteor

...

Okay, so a person already has some serious mental issues, and we're going to throw something like, "A real friend wouldn't do it because I threatened to kill myself too."

Making empty threats like that is bull and will not have any effect. Your friend will call your bluff, and then what? You have a dead friend. Whoops!

Wow. You are the king of bad advice, hun.

Benny, it's a really rough situation that you're in. The fact that you are trying to reach out to him is good. Make sure your friend knows how much he means to you, and to other people in his life. Do his parents know he's having problems? It might be hard to go to an adult, especially if this kid does not want adults knowing what is wrong, but things like this could escalate beyond your control...

Just be there for him. Your concern should be touching.

[djshox]

Like Cenright noted, suicide is just being selfish. If you want to kill yourself because "everybody hates you" or some **** like that, you're downright selfish. It wouldn't solve anything and would bring the worst pain to your friends and family. There is NO reason that something is so horrible that you have to end it like that. NONE. Everyone's going to have their bad days and good days, it all evens out. Stuff like "my girlfriend/boyfriend dumped/cheated on me", or "people make fun of me" or "my dad/mom/siblings yell/beat me." There is always a way around that. As Anti mentioned, the people actually diagnosed with severe depression are the ones that cannot be happy as hard as they try.

[Kilgamayan]

There is NO reason that something is so horrible that you have to end it like that. NONE.

And you know this for a fact how?

[djshox]

Well what would be so bad in your life that you would have to end it?

[Kilgamayan]

I don't know.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't something out there that could push me over the edge. Perhaps there is, and I simply haven't experienced it yet.

[ddrruler]

Shox you don't understand along with the people who say your being selfish etc...the only way you would understand if you have been/are depressed....I was sucidal last summer...im on some adhd med that doubles as a depression supresser. :?

[djshox]

I have been depressed, I was the entire last summer. But one day I started hanging out with friends, going for walks, going outside and just getting some fresh air and it helped me greatly.

[Cenright]

That is the main problem. Depression becomes a self-fulfilling process. To just break the depression by getting outside and around people can work wonders.

[Kilgamayan]

That's assuming doing so will, in fact, fix depression.

It's entirely possible that for any given case, that won't do anything.

[TheTypist]

...A very close friend of my family had the.. uh.. "privilege" of discovering the body of her ex-husband after he killed himself, and then, just before I started college, her only son -- again, the victim of suicide...

Notice the bolded word. Victim usually means there is a suspect. And the suspect usually gets in trouble. So what if they're one and the same?

The Constitution protects the right to pursue happiness, not a right to kill yourself.

[talisman]

Depression is a physical illness... trying to change the way you think won't do anything unless you have magic serotonin reuptake blocking powers. Seriously, most of the people who attempt suicide probably exhibit clinical depression and should go on some drugs (Zoloft, Prozac, etc.).

Also no one is depressed in the clinical sense until they've been "blue" for at least six months straight.

[Cenright]

That's assuming doing so will, in fact, fix depression.

It's entirely possible that for any given case, that won't do anything.

Yes, that's true. But I doubt that there are very many people that bad.
That happens when people start to feel there is nothing else than depression, which is probably the main leader to suicide.

[Anticrombie0909]

Like Cenright noted, suicide is just being selfish. If you want to kill yourself because "everybody hates you" or some (#$% like that, you're downright selfish. It wouldn't solve anything and would bring the worst pain to your friends and family. There is NO reason that something is so horrible that you have to end it like that. NONE.

That is the main problem. Depression becomes a self-fulfilling process. To just break the depression by getting outside and around people can work wonders.

ARGH

DID YOU PEOPLE EVEN READ MY POST

Depression is NOT A LOGICAL ILLNESS. Depression is NOT CAUSED by people hating you, or because you screwed up on a test, or because your girlfriend broke up with you. These things can make you DEPRESSED, or temporarily TRIGGER depression, but ACTUAL, CLINICAL DEPRESSION IS NOT CAUSED BY A LOGICAL THING. HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THIS.

DEPRESSION

IS

NOT

MENTALLY

CURABLE

IT IS NOT "ALL IN YOUR MIND" LIKE YOU SEEM TO THINK IT IS

IT CANNOT BE CURED BY "GOING FOR A WALK"

DO YOU GET IT YET?

Depression is the NUMBER ONE cause of preventable death for teenagers. You honestly think that many teenagers get an F on test and pop themselves? WRONG.

I have a great life. I have tons of friends. I have loving parents and plenty of money. I have good grades. I have NO logical reason to be depressed, yet, somehow, that doesnt' heal me. GEE WONDER IF MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE IT'S AN ACTUAL MENTAL ILLNESS? You can't "talk yourself" out of depression any more than you can Schizophrenia. There's a reason they prescribe medication IN ADDITION to therapy.

Edit: Ok, sorry, I'm not trying to 'yell' here, but you people are talking about something you completely don't understand. You really, truely simply can not understand the nature of clinical depression unless you've struggled with it. And Shox, being depressed for a summer and curing yourself by hanging out with friends means you most likely weren't clinically depressed.

[djshox]

Depression is NOT A LOGICAL ILLNESS. Depression is NOT CAUSED by people hating you, or because you screwed up on a test, or because your girlfriend broke up with you. These things can make you DEPRESSED, or temporarily TRIGGER depression, but ACTUAL, CLINICAL DEPRESSION IS NOT CAUSED BY A LOGICAL THING.

That's what I'm trying to state. That there is no reason to kill yourself for something as small as those examples, that everyone has bad days and they have to learn to accept that. As for the clinically diagnosed, I understand it's not like that at all. I more than likely wasn't clinically depressed, but it sure as hell sucked that summer, and for no reason too.

Don't be mad at me Anti :(

[hatakikakashi]

Anitcrombie0909 I think you just hit the nail on the head there.

With a sledgehammer...

As hard as you could...

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said again.

[Cenright]

Depression is NOT A LOGICAL ILLNESS. Depression is NOT CAUSED by people hating you, or because you screwed up on a test, or because your girlfriend broke up with you. These things can make you DEPRESSED, or temporarily TRIGGER depression, but ACTUAL, CLINICAL DEPRESSION IS NOT CAUSED BY A LOGICAL THING.


You are right, It is emotion. Pure, screwed up emotion and illogicality.
That is where breaking the common routine is so helpful. Depression starts as an emotional mindset, and becomes a habitual attitude. To do something that alters the emotional mindset will help alter the attitude for the time.

Ever heard of "Time flies when you're having fun"? Well emotion flies too. If you took that person to Disneyland or Six Flags, you could help break that. You would keep them busy, meaning you would keep them in a group of people that they know, so that there is always someone to see, talk to, listen to, or go with. It would work very well, but tomorrow, it is back to the same thing. That is why each day has to be broken up, so that their routine changes, and then they have something interesting each day. It breaks the habitual attitude and makes them have to think about something else.



The problem with people who have it for a long time or have it many times, is they are getting back into that emotional routine. They don't have the willpower to break the routine, and even when it has been broken, they easily fall back into it. It is like another type of addictive personality.

[blargherness]

kinda strange, i JUST watched a suicide video in my gym class (it was turned into a temporarily 2-day health class) and i actually learned quite a bit. i dont really have anything to say on the matter though....

sorta creeps me out though, i took a depression test, it said it was a possibility that i had depression, the only thing that sorta contradicts it is that i dont feel too depressed, and i havent had even the slightes thought of suicide or anything...but it still sort of worries me....but thats besides the topic so ill shut up now

[Meteor858]

anti crombie once again youve takin the **** right outta my mouth only this time you let it evolve for 5 years.

blarge I have clinical depression and for me it started out as the stuff your talkin bout i didnt think i had it but stuff like that said i might have it then it got worse and worse and now i think bout it almost every day

if that ever happens to you tell someone you know and seek medical help

[talisman]

Dude, cen, clinical depression is not emotion. It is a chemical imbalance, and you can't fix it by changing your daily routine. Your brain simply doesn't have enough serotonin and norepinephrine, which is why antidepressants (nowadays anyway) are usually either SSRIs or SNRIs.

[TheTypist]

So basically, we've all been saying the same thing about depression, assuming that the next post was a bitter rebuttal, then getting angry and repeating our arguments over and over again.

]Depression is the NUMBER ONE cause of preventable death for teenagers.

See? Preventable.

No right to kill yourself.

However, we have the right to the pursuit of happiness. If you're depressed, there's a lot more happiness to be pursued. So technically, if you're depressed, you have more rights. If you're a liberal, more "rights" = better, almost always. Therefore, I can only conclude that all Democrats should become depressed.

If that's not illogical for you, I don't know what is.[/i]

[FlashStinger]

Yes, It is a chemical imbalance, but it is also emotional. Not every problem in your life can be diagnosed with western medicine and thinking that everything is from a chemical imbalance in your head. I had a shrink 2 years ago diagnose me with manic depressive disorder, bi-polar disorder, and obsessive compulsive disorder. They wanted to put me on like 3 or 4 different drugs to help, but I refused. As a buddhist, I don't take drugs or anything that will alter how my mind works. It helps to just sit back and look at your life. I was at that point where I was about to end it all. I'm no stupid kid, not to brag, but knowing the easiest way s to do it didn't help. I was full well ready to die, but then someone called me. And was like, we haven't done much together lately, wanna go to the movies. That was enough, I sat back and looked at some of the triggers. I mean, I had my problems after that, but today I can honestly say that I have changed. Yes, I understand the chemical Imbalce part of it, I still suffer from that, but I honestly think that it is dwelling in that kind of thought that causes more suffering. Sitting there thinking that you will always be sad and depressed only makes it worse. If you don't have friends, it doesn't mean you never will. You can be happy and depressed, it is ok. Too many teenagers thinking is at the point it's like. "I'm depressed right now. Things Will always get harder, I will never be happy." Well, thats true, if you decide to end it. Every moment is different and you will never be the same.
At times I believe a lot of these problems of suicide come from religion. Not bashing it, it's wonderful and good and all that, but some people think that if they commit suicide, they will go to heaven and be happy. And they look at that as their only way to be truly happy. Yet, we know that there is happiness on earth. And us dying only makes the rest of the world suffer and ourselves to suffer.
On another note, almost all suicide attempts are unsucsessful. I work in a nursing home, and there is a 32 year old man there. He has a wife, to wonderful kids, great job, loving parents, the works. He will never see them again. He is in a drug induced comatose. He swallowed 2 bottles of anti depressants, 1 bottle of asprin, 5 patches that we use at the home (extremely lethal in the human body) , About 3 cups of alchohol, and a bottle of paint thinner. He then got out of his car, and walked into the walmart he had been parked at. Makes it in the door, and crashes. Heart stops, and he is unconcious. This man survived, only because there was an EMT present. Another minute and he would be dead. The shocking thing is many many suicide attempts end like this. It is slightly ironic, that by wanting death, you receive life, for many years to come, in a constant vegetative state. Think about that when you think about suicide. This is the saddest person I have ever seen, lying in his bed, without any ablity to move, he might as well be dead. But, he isn't, he's there. Where he will probably remain for another 30 to 40 years. It isn't a way out. You think your life is bad now, try and imagine living in this state.
That has been a wake up call for me. I see my friend who wants to commit, and has all of the mental issues I have along with schizophrenia and cutting. The main problem I see is being selfish, and the chemical imbalaces. She takes the drugs, and they only help a bit. That is one reason why I think it is in a large part mental. As one who is very into psychology I can see many signs of why she is depressed, besides the chemical imbalance. She wants attention, and she gets it, but she always wants more. Her family life is one of the best i have seen(mormon), and she has some of the greatest friends in the world, yet, she thinks no one notices or cares for her. And she admits that she wants the attention, and that she doesn't get enough, but I'll reiterate this, she dwells in that state of mind that she is unwanted. Even when around many people tending for her, she thinks like that. Chemical imbalces can't really cause that part. It can't control the things you think. Those chemicals cannot affect your thoughts, just how you feel. I can say, that one of the number one reasons is dwelling in the thoughts. another would be Blaming your depression on the imbalances and not taking on some of the responsibility. I mean, when you are ready to commit suicide, it is not the chemicals making you, it is you. You can't blame the chemicals for everything, thats just not the way it works.

[talisman]

Schizophrenia is different though... antipsychotics only fix schizophrenia one third of the time, and must be present in order to maintain normality in another third. That leaves a third that doesn't get any benefits from the drugs.

and let's be honest... you ARE chemicals. Chemicals are to blame for EVERYTHING. There is no magical "you" in "control".

[GuidoHunter]

I completely agree with Flash. I'm glad there are others out there who think the same way, too.

And talisman, that's a whole 'nother philosophical discussion. And, hey, if we're all made up of chemicals then you can go down further and say we're just a collective mass of bosons and fermions. Events at that level are quite inexplicable, so those at the chemical level can be, too.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[talisman]

Of course, at the chemical level things are much more predictable than at the subatomic... but we slowly wander off topic.

Suicidal tendencies should be treated... you shouldn't be jailed for an attempt.

[Meteor858]

talisman right now your among the only people i agree with.
Stinger if it was mostly the state of mind, wouldnt all my attempts to get better inside my head work?
But no they didnt did they.
I felt good for about 4 days it was cool and then i had a really bad urge to commit suicide that came out of nowhere
so it is only logical that i agree with talisman on this one

[Cenright]

Talisman, that is pretty much predestination. You have no control over your life, and since It is all chemicals, do whatever you damn well please, because free will doesn't exist, and you are going to do it anyway. (To me, this is selfishness in itself.) This gives you a reason, that if the drugs don't work, you can say that there is no hope, and that sounds like depression has such a foothold, that you may just be right. But to commit suicide is to lose the fight. I doubt that any of us want to be the supreme loser, the loser at life.

Stinger, thank you for giving that story, cause it was exactly what I said in my post, but I didn't have a story to back it.

[talisman]

I never said anything about doing whatever you damn well please... some of us have chemicals that make us think of others, obviously.

But I dislike the word chemicals. It does have a literal connection to the fact that clinical depression is a chemical balance, but it is fallacious to assume that everything that occurs in the human organism is entirely chemical. Indeed, electrical impulses as well as kinetic movement play an important role as well. As far as the brain goes, however, I strongly disagree with the concept of a "you" that is in "control." Not only is the sense of self a manifestation of certain brain structures... its "decisions" are entirely predicated upon the status of the brain itself, and the various neurotransmitters present are among the most basic components of that status.

I don't believe in predestination at all, I just think that the brain is an entirely physical organ. ie, there is no "soul". Predestination has already been roundly refuted by quantum mechanics.

On topic, I think that while it is important to consider the underlying physical causes of depression (the chemicals), I also acknowledge that environmental factors probably have some influence in the degree to which the symptoms are felt and the speed with which recovery can occur.

[Meteor858]

well centright im sorry about how deluted you are from the truth of things look at anticrombies posts and think hard about what you just read

[QreepyBORIS]

well centright im sorry about how deluted you are from the truth of things look at anticrombies posts and think hard about what you just read

Sixth graders reserve no right to sound elitist or superior.

They have to earn it.

[hatakikakashi]

Anyone can sound any way they want. The only thing you need to earn is respect. Would you rather him sound and act like a sixth grader? Oh and by the way, he's not in the sixth grade. You don't have to agree with what he thinks, but you shouldn't dismiss him just because he's young. He's expressing himself and I'm sure he'll learn to be more tactfull as he learns and grows. As far as I've observed, your acting as though you think your elite and somehow superior to him. You need to growup man. Talking that way to kids.

[GuidoHunter]

No matter how little seratonin you have in your body, you're never without choice. This fact is my basis behind my standpoint (and that of Stinger).

Meteor, if trying to overcome depression by will alone isn't working for you then you're not trying hard enough.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Meteor858]

dude ive seen psycologists and taken meds and nothing worked ive tried to be optimistic until i though i would break outta stress

maybe i was meant to be this way or somthin...

[hatakikakashi]

Meteor, if trying to overcome depression by will alone isn't working for you then you're not trying hard enough.

If you really think that then you obviously don't understand the difference between being sad and being officially depressed. I'd suggest you research the topic and gather FACTS instead of offering baseless opinions. Except that depression isn't the topic of this thread. So I won't suggest that. I guess depression is just more interesting than suicide. Although I suppose one can lead to the other, but there are many different reasons other than being depressed. Such as religious beliefs, duty, honor,and sacrifice.

By the way, I do realize I'm being a hypocrite.

[GuidoHunter]

You show me definitive proof that depression can't be overcome by willpower alone and I'll gladly take back everything I said and I'm sure FlashStinger would gladly accept whatever you offer and deny his own opinions.

The fact that one person could defeat depression by himself is a whole lot of support for my case.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Meteor858]

y know what **** you all

[hatakikakashi]

That like telling an Alzhiemers patient he's not trying hard enough to remember his grandchildren. Also one person saying they did something is not proof of anything.
I gaurantee you he didn't cure himself out of shear willpower. Coping with it is a different story lot's of people just deal with it, but you can't cure a mental illness like chronic clinical depression just by thinking happy thoughts.

This isn't neverneverland and your not peterf#$%ingpan!

[GuidoHunter]

There's a distinct difference between someone's brain physically rotting away and someone just being depressed. Sure, you're short a few chemicals (or are just down), but that doesn't incapacitate you at all.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Loverofstories]

death is not an escape, but a trap laid out by god...

[Loverofstories]

im pretty sure they made it illegal so people wouldn't do it because they don't want to die a criminal maybe?

[GuidoHunter]

I HARDLY think that was the reasoning behind the law. One possible reason is that it's taking a life, but, then again, it's not punished as murder is.

Anyone have any insight? I'm kind of curious now.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[hatakikakashi]

Yes it is. It's an automatic death penalty.

[GuidoHunter]

EDIT: Damn you, taking advantage of my extreme gullibility. Plus, it was late...

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[hatakikakashi]

Yeah, sorry for being a dick earlier, and what I said in my last post was a bad joke. I think that it's illegal for insurance purposes. Your family won't be able to get the benifits and such.

[alainbryden]

I grow so frustrated of people like Meteor858 who broadcast their so-called depression as a means of getting attention or feeling special. To them I say -_-.

As for suicide, the illegality of it is out-dated. It was done in a time when religious beliefs were at a high, and to prevent people who believed breaking the law would sent them to hell from killing themselves. It is now a useless law, badly inforced (no one has ever been convicted, lol) and is wasting space in the rule book.

But to digress, I have to say that having it stated as officially illigal demonstrates an understood immorality in the action. The fact that it is a crime is not that you actually killed yourself, but that you imposed trauma on those around you.

[Moogy]

Halfway through reading this topic, I said, out loud, "This topic is LOL." Yes, I said LOL out loud. That's how bad this topic is.

[stretchypanda]

To deviate a little bit from the topic, Meteor is a good example for those of us who are pro-censoring. Everything he says completely loses credibility when it is littered with all those little symbols.

To go back ON topic, I agree that depression can be beaten with willpower. Willpower ALONE I'm not so sure. Just like any curable mental illness (Alzheimer's involves the actual irreparable deterioration of brain tissue, so that doesn't count, hataki), one needs the will to get over it (I don't mean for that to sound harsh). Most of the time, though, a person is so deeply rooted in his illness that enough willpower is almost impossible to find. This is where support from loved ones, help from trained professionals, and sometimes the use of drugs (although I dislike the use of prescriptions -- Donnie Darko, anyone?) come in.

So, I still think that some of you are being a little harsh in your judgements, but at the same time, I have little doubt that, should someone you love come to you as depressed and suicidal, you would offer nothing but help.

[jujo07]

In my opinion suicide shouldn't be illegal because like some of you have said it would only motivate people to do it more and get it done right the first time. This also brings up the issue of cutting and burning. People do it, but I think that's one of the only ways people that have depression can feel in control.

It's kind of crazy because from my couple years at high school there's been at least 5 suiciders and I've known at least 3 of them. Also like someone else said it puts a lot of depression in the friends of the people that committed suicide, and let me tell you it's hard. My worst experience was one guy who asked me out about a week before he committed suicide. The whole rest of the year I felt so guilty like it was all my fault.

One of the other guys I knew was a cutter and at the time I didn't know it. He asked me to go for a drive one night and he showed me his arms in the parking lot that night. It was so horrible, all up and down his arms there a checker board pattern on them. Ever since I had a talk with him that night, to this day he hasn't cut himself, he's replaced it with mountain biking.

My point is depression and suicide are crazy things that only the person doing it to themselves can explain. I think people that don't have depression will never understand the true pain behind it all, even I don't understand it, with all the people I've been around that have it.

[QreepyBORIS]

dude ive seen psycologists and taken meds and nothing worked ive tried to be optimistic until i though i would break outta stress

maybe i was meant to be this way or somthin...

You're like a Marvin that tries not to be depressed!


Remember, there is no problem that can't be solved through serial killing.

And pills. Take more of them. Keep taking them. That's good.







And also, never listen to me.

[Meteor858]

And pills. Take more of them. Keep taking them. That's good.







And also, never listen to me.


thats apparent
lol

[QreepyBORIS]

But no, seriously, what types of Meds (and in what quantity) did you take?

There's probably something better on the market. :P And it's definitely worth a try. Maybe.

[FlashStinger]

*bad joke*
Suicide is your way of telling god, "you can't fire me, I quit".

[Meteor858]

boris i took the meds when i was even younger than i am now and it was a while ago so i dont remember much cept they didnt work at all

No flash i think its a good joke it made me lol *it also made me think of donald trump*

[hatakikakashi]

I don't see anything wrong with taking medication if it's helping. If it's not doing you any good then ask your doctor to let you try something else. Then again I'm only talking about clinical depression, where you have a chemical imbalace that medication can help even out. I wouldn't refuse to take the medicine just because I don't like pills.

You can be severely depressed and not have clinical depression. When I say clinically depressed versus just depressed I'm not comparing your level of depression, I'm comparing the cause.

[Meteor858]

Clinical here

and i dont BROADCAST it for attention i tell others in a hope that people will try to help me but i guess i overestimated the people of this world.

maybe the ones in hell will understand more....

[sleeplessdragn]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the first step toward correcting any form of mental illness acceptance of the illness? If this is true, than isn't this acceptance in itself a form of mental overcoming? I agree with stretchy; willpower can beat depression, albeit not always alone. I mean if the first step toward finding relief is a mental step in itself, that has to be saying a lot about the source, and treatment, of any form of mental disease.

maybe the ones in hell will understand more....

O, and a statement like this, if your not broadcasting your depression, is unnecessary. Unless of course you want to broadcast your depression.

[hatakikakashi]

I think you have a good point, in so far as to say that willpower and a determination to beat the illness would definatly help, and that willpower alone isn't enough. Knowing you have a problem with anything is the first step in overcoming it. The thing about depression that makes it so difficult to do without the aid of medication is that you don't want to do anything, even if you know it will help. It sort of saps all of your energy and desire to get better. Kinda like your really hungry but your so lazy you won't get up and make something to eat.I've done that before

[FlashStinger]

Well, it does do the exact opposite to some people. Some people it gives more energy and they feel like they are alive again. They feel better than they ever have before. That's why it is so hard to say what is right for all people.

[hatakikakashi]

Depression doesn't make you hyper. It doesn't make anyone hyper. If your all happy and never felt better then why would you think you had depression. WTF are you talking about? We were talking about how it's hard to be motivated when your depressed, not the effects of medication.

[Meteor858]

lol yeah stinger maybe your thinkin of mania, cuz therez bipolar where its like a mix of depression and mania

[stratforddrums]

My belief is that there is no hell. Hell is what we creat for ourselves here on earth. When you die, I believe you go to the ultimite bliss (Heaven). So when someone committs suicide, there only saying there done here on earth and are ready to go on to bliss.

[Layla-Day]

I think is and it should remain illegal because it is the goverment's job to do whatever they can to keep you safe.

[Meteor858]

hmmm thats a very optimistic way of thinkin bout it.

it may be true but ya dont know till you die.

and who knows if there is anything after this life?

it could be an eternal void of darkness and stupidity but it could also be the blissful paradise your thinkin of strat

who knows?

[hatakikakashi]

That's why you should wait and find out when your supposed to. I wouldn't be too quick to jump the gun, just incase being dead sucks.

[BountyHunterSAx]

.......

Yeah, you know what meteor? To hell with life. You've got the right idea:

Why *NOT* end it all?

[JurseyRider734]

Because there's tons of things to live for, Bounty.

Even if you do have clincal depression, try to make the best of your life until you get the right combination of medication to help yourself. It's something, to look forward to itsself, is it not? If you keep yourself occupied with other things, even if you are reluctant to do so, it keeps your mind off of other things that can bring you down.

[jewpinthethird]

maybe the ones in hell will understand more....

Probably. Chances are there was once someone who thought the same exact thing, so they killed themselves, so if you kill yourself, you could probably meet up with them. Although, considering there are probably billions upon billions of "lost souls" in hell...and the chances of meeting up with that person is very unlikely...but what the hell, you've got the rest of eternity! Keep searching for that special someone! One day, when you meet them, you can converse about how terrible the world was, and how you killed yourselves...and, well, that's about it. I dont see the conversation lasting over 45 minutes. Then, you two will probably go your seperate ways and spend the rest of your eternal life in eternal boredom.

In case you didnt notice, the previous sentence was entirely sarcastic. Dont kill yourself, no one likes a quitter....unless, you are quitting cigarettes or drugs...or alcohol...or something like that. Just dont kill yourself. I once read a poem by...some guy, and it was about winter and how miserably cold and gray it is, and he continues on and on and on and on...you know, nevermind, that poem was boring, i'd probably have killed myself while reading it if I had something sharp...anyways, that's beside the point. At the end of the poem, the narrator hears a little bird singing a song full of joy. BLAHBLAHBLAH, the message is everything gets better in due time...it's the nature of...nature. Everything runs in cycles.

Listen to The Aquabat's song "Hello, Goodnight." It'll make you feel better about your existence...as well as depress those who are happy.

[BountyHunterSAx]

**I** know why I wouldn't ever commit suicide, I was curious and asking the "i'm so poor and clinically depressed, YOU could never understand" meteor why HE hadn't yet. What justifiication did he have for being alive? WTF are you still doing in this world?

Comprendes?

[jewpinthethird]

**I** know why I wouldn't ever commit suicide, I was curious and asking the "i'm so poor and clinically depressed, YOU could never understand" meteor why HE hadn't yet. What justifiication did he have for being alive? WTF are you still doing in this world?

Comprendes?

You could have just said you were being sarcastic and saved yourself from having to explain your meaning.

[MonkeyFoo]

I think it shouldnt be illegal because its a great way of solving problems that are otherwise unsolvable.
wtf, you think its a great way to solve problems? That doesn't solve anything. Suicide is simply a last resort: when you can't control anything else, there's always your own life. Sometimes people just want to fiunally get some people to see their plight, to get some sympathy. Same control-hunger thing with homicide, except that's when you control others' lives, for when you either have some but not enough control, or no control except for that gun of yours. My essential view on suicidals is that they're weak. Is it better to have had and lost than never to have had at all? If so, I've had more reasons to kill myself than you, so stfu bitches and quit yer bitchin'.

Now, if you do feel like suicidin', at least do it Manly Style (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=manly_suicide). In the manly suicide site: "Talk about a cheap suicide! At 75 cents, you can't afford not to kill yourself!" and the catch-phrase: "It's your suicide, have fun with it."
[edit] Change your avatar to this, suicide boy. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/razor2.gif

P.S.: Think I'm insensitive? Read my other responses to depressed people's posts. I just get pissed at suicidals. It's so easy to improve your life, it's stupid to kill yourself. I could elaborate... but I'll spare you the litany.

[ddristhecoolest]

I've got major clinical depression. Taking prozac, well just started, isn't working so far. Just started to day actually on cutting myself, it's nice, good alternative to suicide. If anybody here is suicidal like me, try it, they (if you don't know who, then don't worry about it) will tell you it's bad but they don't know what their talking about.

P.S. to monkeyfoo, I used to have that avatar as mine on another forum, they got pissed and said if I didn't take it off I would get banned so I left.

[JurseyRider734]

ddristhecoolest, don't EVER promote cutting. It makes things worse, and also you can get in trouble for it. It's dangerous. How can you be so ignorant to say I don't know what i'm talking about? I wrote a short essay on cutting. It's not good for you in any way. Yes, it turns your emotional pain to physical pain, but cutting is not a remedy for your depression. Stick with trying to get your medications right, and instead of having to cut yourself go out and take a walk, or play DDR more, or something.

Idiots.

[hEaLiNgViSiOnAnGeLicMiX]

I've got major clinical depression. Taking prozac, well just started, isn't working so far. Just started to day actually on cutting myself, it's nice, good alternative to suicide. If anybody here is suicidal like me, try it, they (if you don't know who, then don't worry about it) will tell you it's bad but they don't know what their talking about.

P.S. to monkeyfoo, I used to have that avatar as mine on another forum, they got pissed and said if I didn't take it off I would get banned so I left.

Cutting yourself can lead to death dipshi. Therefor, there is no large difference between suicide and 'cutting'. Why one would promote such a thing is completely beyond me. Are you saying that cutting oneself lead to HAPPINESS?! you're an idiot.

gtfo. now.

[ddristhecoolest]

ok. Fine I'm not gonna argue I knew none of you would get it. Bye.

[jewpinthethird]

Do you cut yourself because you enjoy the pain it brings, thus proving your existence? Just wondering.

Yes, cutting can lead to death...assuming you know where to cut and how much you cut (or how much blood you loss). Most cutters dont cut deep enough to puncture anything important, and the cuts usually arent big enough to threaten one's life.

Dont get me wrong, I dont support the idea, it just isnt as dangerous as it appears. However, ddristhecoolest, I do suggest you get some help with the whole cutting thing.

[Anticrombie0909]

Just a note, you guys...cutting actually releases pleasure causing endorphins in the brain as well as adrenaline. It's not only a psychological reason people cut, because in a world full of sadness, that's the one time they can feel good. It's possible to become addicted to cutting.

[jewpinthethird]

Just a note, you guys...cutting actually releases pleasure causing endorphins in the brain as well as adrenaline. It's not only a psychological reason people cut, because in a world full of sadness, that's the one time they can feel good. It's possible to become addicted to cutting.

The same reason people enjoy extremely spicy foods...I was watching a documentary on it. If you have ever eaten something extremely spicy and felt your head become light afterwards, thats the endorphins working their magic.

Hm...coincedently, the song I happen to be listening to right now is titled "Suicide (or Better Way)" by Choking Victim.

[ringzing]

i think it should be legal at to a certain degree and the suicide should be a controled thing not like some kid jumping of the bay bridge (some one i know knew a person that did that) because that causes to much pain and stress

[LegendaryDJ]

Okay, after 7 pages of reading and making an effort to understand your points of this thread. Suicide is ones belief to end all their earthly troubles. But most people who think about commiting suicide do not becuase of their fear of death. Well, actually if your so depressed and have such a bad life, then you don't fear death. But, sorry if i sound like a ******* but you can't really understand ones problems or mental illnesses unless you yourself have ecountered them. Take me for example. I believe I have OCD ( Obsessive Compulisive Disorder ) I think only I have it and only I go through with it. But on a wbsite it listed thousands and thousands of people who had it. Or still have it. Famous famous people had it to. Back in the day :wink: if you talked about what you felt like or had, people would think your crazy. But today there are many many many many ways to attempt to fix those problems. None of them can guarrentee you of certainty that they will be gone (i'm speaking of mental illnesses). Therapy can try to help get rid of it. So can medication. but none are guranteed. If you think suicidal people are selfish abrupt minded people than obviously your life is good enough to where you do not understand them or those things. I for one believe that you can definintly stop your self from commiting suicide. I have seriously thought of it, attempted it, but I never cut myself or anything physical like that. But I've been close to doing something like it.I'm saying that mental illnesses are extreemly hard to understand. Unless you are diagnosed with one. Then some or most people who commit suicide commit it becuase of mental or physical illnesses ( and I'm talking about fatal deseases. Not your common everyday cold or the sniffles :D ) . Then some people commit suicide becuase of their bad life. Just to point out the obvious. But if you want to commit suicide becuase you feel or know you have a bad life you can stop yourself very easily. Act positive to get a positive response from people. If you act mad at people for being mad at you. Then goodluck, becuase your life will just suck more and more and more and more. This post is far to long already so I can't go on any further. But if your interested in this topic and are interested in my post, then feel free to talk to me on my AIM screen name which is DJ2570 . 8)

[emptiness]

What do you think? Should it be illegal? Why do people do it?

how should it be illegal, if you die how are you gonna be prosecuted??
i dunno if somebody said that already.....

[Specialsock]

The only point to suicide being illegal is so that the life insurance companies don't have to dole out the cash on them when they take their own lives *To SUPPOSEDLY stop fraud*

[Tonberry_Kid]

its illegal because of putting ppls lives indanger..
Shooting yourself=pulling out a weapon
Cutting yourself=pulling out a weapon
jumping off something=trespassing
Overdosing=DRUGS
Hanging=rope can be considered a weapon
drowning=trespassing
Blunt force to skull=pulling out a weapon..
see a pattern here?

[imwithstupid5868]

I dont really understand depression. All the kids I know who are depressed/suicidal don't even seem like they care. They blame everybody else for their problems. Well if you aren't trying to help yourself to make yourself better and happy, then how can you blame anybody but yourself? Parents beating you? Call the ****ing cops. Girlfriend broke up with you? find a new one.....if you have a disorder, there's always plenty of medical ways to help yourself out. Suicide does nothing but makes your family sad, your friends sad, and whoa youre dead. go figure.

[Meteor858]

Perhaps if everyone like imwithstupid here could experience severe depression for maybe a day or 2 they could understand more about why we do the things we do like cut, attempt suicide. All of that.

ugh i dont even know what im talking about.

~meteor

[ToshX]

I used to be suicidal. Remember the few months I didn't go to FFR? Yeah. Try looking at the world from a different viewpoint and you'll see how much it makes a difference. Get someone's opinion of how life is, how interesting it is, and exciting, and try it out, then you will change...at least I did.
---
Turns out the reason I was suicidal is not because others were making me feel bad. It was simply because I was putting so much pressure on myself that it seemed like everyone and everything was against me.

[msbrunnettemickey]

People can try to suicide because of meny thing, or for things. I remember in the biggining of the year my friend started to cut in the girls bathroom because she got regected by some boy in our school. Just when you think it can't any worse... it does. She suddenly started to think everyone hated her. She thought that she had no life, or friends. She wanted to get more attention, and i bet she thought suiciding would be the answer to all the problems. My friend Anna calls me one day and started to panic on the phone "SHE IS GOING TO JUMP SHE IS GOING TO JUMP" until i could calm her down.. 5 min. past. So i finally found out that the girl who wanted to suicide in the "near" future, is now, almost commiting suicide.


How did we stop her from jumping the Teen Center's roof?
I don't remember.
All i know, is that she turned emo.

She had been to the hospital for many times now, for trying to jump at cars while driving...

[DDRAngel]

Now, I can see someone with a mental illness commiting suicide and like I wouldnt hold that aganist them but someone that is perfectly normal not even thinking what others have to go though...and how their life can change make that decision and it changes everything. I just dont know what to think about it.

[DDR_9-footer]

well as said eariler sucide is illegal and to help some1 commit sucide is also illegal most ppl who want to commit sucide just need guideinse(sp?)

[DDRAngel]

guidence... go to school and learn to spell..when you turn 13 come back.

[Torlock]

Personally, I believe that making suicide illegal is beyond pointless. I've come to the point where I almost did one time. Instead of just doing it all of a sudden I decided to be smart about it. I told myself to wait one more day, and if I came up with no reason to live in 24 hours then I was going to finish it. Well, I thought and thought. Before the 24 hours was up I ended up dating someone. I was hanging out with her, and I realized this was a good reason to hang around. If you want to kill yourself give yourself a day to look for reasons why not to. I'm not necessarily saying that will work, but it worked for me. That could have been pure luck or divine intervention. No way to really know. All I know is that now I'm going to hang in there for the full ride.

[emptiness]

If anyone watch Suicide Circle ( japanese flick) get back at me with that...cuz im wierded out. i need some explanation of why ppl would kill themselves over connection with a young pop group.

[russell35]

suicide is for noobs who cant handle being owndizzled by russ in halo 2....which he will own u in...biyatch


oh i forgot...its also for emos......man i hate emos....and punk rockers.......hate em.....almost as much as i hate emos

[emptiness]

your an idiot...for real...

[hatakikakashi]

heh heh heh... It's always nice to see your topics go to hell. I leave for a while and look what happens.

[natetheffrer]

anybody remember monoc? he killed himself.

edit: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=270&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

[deposition]

People kill themselves everyday. I dont get what the big deal was for that one person, who noone here knew, that posted here a few times.

its illegal because of putting ppls lives indanger..
Shooting yourself=pulling out a weapon
Cutting yourself=pulling out a weapon
jumping off something=trespassing
Overdosing=DRUGS
Hanging=rope can be considered a weapon
drowning=trespassing
Blunt force to skull=pulling out a weapon..
see a pattern here?

1.) Pulling out a weapon is not illegal

2.) It is illegal to kill yourself



Personally, I believe that making suicide illegal is beyond pointless. I've come to the point where I almost did one time. Instead of just doing it all of a sudden I decided to be smart about it. I told myself to wait one more day, and if I came up with no reason to live in 24 hours then I was going to finish it. Well, I thought and thought. Before the 24 hours was up I ended up dating someone. I was hanging out with her, and I realized this was a good reason to hang around. If you want to kill yourself give yourself a day to look for reasons why not to. I'm not necessarily saying that will work, but it worked for me. That could have been pure luck or divine intervention. No way to really know. All I know is that now I'm going to hang in there for the full ride.


*Pictures a person about to jump off a bridge, and a cop walks by, notices it, keeps on walking, and thinks "It's ok; noone is doing anything against the law here"*

* Then pictures someone in jail for saving the person about to jump because the person that was about to jump was minding their own buisiness doing nothing illegal and someone comes up and grabs them and bring them away fom the edge of the bridge.*

[Torlock]

While that's true, Deposition, I was just saying that it doesn't matter whether it's illegal or not. Because, if you plan on killing yourself you're not going to think I'm not going to do this because it's illegal. They don't plan on failing.

[MonkeyFoo]

The second installment of Monkeyrant:

Prevention > Reaction: I wonder if there is a way to get less suicides to begin with, like school counseling. Problem with that is, then we would all have to go through it, and be bored in one more class. If it weren't universal, then the people who do go to the counseling would feel worse because people think they want to kill themselves, a bad sign about oneself. Thus, counseling would probably lead to boredom or more suicide, depending on the method of application.

Compare the reasons why murder and suicide are both bad:

Murder:
-somebody else's life is taken from them against their will (like property)
-one less person is able to contribute to society, i.e. work, family and friendship bonds, etc.
-it must say not to kill in religious texts or something

Suicide:
-one less person is able to contribute to society
-i might have missed other stuff... but the one is pretty broad.

I conclude that it makes sense to make suicide illegal an these grounds, however, as Torlock and others have said, illegalizing suicide is next to pointless. The only way that a law against suicide helps is that it gives more of a feeling that society doesn't accept suicide. (unfortunately, this doesn't help with them nonconformist types) It doesn't help with the mentally ill either.

However, it is a bad idea to punish suicide because if you punish a person for an attempted suicide, you only instill in them a greater desire to commit suicide.

I therefore come to the conclusion that suicide should be illegal, but it should never be punished.

PS suicidals are pansies

[senate7377]

I think in genereal it shoudl be illegal, not becuase of the "selfish" bandwagon, but consider that when you die, your debt doesnt just dissolve. It gets passed on. Its my personal opinion that those who commit suicide can't really deal with the reality that they've either made for themselves or the reality that they percieve. I won't say that the world is some Bob Ross happy trees and fluffy clouds painting. Its not by any means but you get what you give in everything. I've had a few friends try to commit suicide and they...basically were weak. Theres no real other way to put it. They gave in to a moment of weakness. Its not shameful to be weak in areas, everyone is. However its shameful to be a coward and not face things either you've created for yourself. Everyone to some degree has teh same problems and challenges in life that the next guy does. What makes it truely different is the perspective. You've also got to think about it from the perspective that say a man who is somewhat wealthy and has a good insurance policy, kills himself becuase he knows whatever is about to go down and his family needs the money. The suicide wouldnt be for selfish reasons, but its almost a scam. Currently Life insurance doesnt cover suicide to my knowledge, but if suicide were completely legal, how could they NOT cover it. Somking is bad, but legal and as a result somkers are covered on policy (albeit a higher premium). Anyway, so, you legalize suicide and then we get a small group of individuals who off themselves to better their family, or at least use it as an excuse. Its HIGHLY unlikely that it wouldd happen but these ARE things insurance companies think about (I Used to work for one, they think about some really really outlandish stuff that you'd have the likelyhood of being born with two penises before they happened - like the car insurance company didnt cover meteor damage, or tsunami damage.... we were in MD....yeah lots of tsunamis and meteors there...). Its just to cover their ass though.

HOWEVER COMMA - Those who have terminal illness, I feel shoudl have the option for assisted suicide. I feel that their life offers them nothing in happiness or fulfillment. I'm not saying "OMG you've got cancer, you can now ask to be put euthanized". I'm saying that in situations where there is nothing that can be done, and all thats left os to be left to waste away. Like, if Terry Schavio was in a vegatative state and was just quadrapalegic, suddenly snapped out of it and asked to be put down before going back to being a bed veggie - She should then be put down. It sounds harsh in those terms and like I have no compassion. I do, it hurts to think about putting a loved one down, or to pull their plug. I've been there. Not the responible party in it, but that didnt make it hurt any less.

So, then should it be taken upon society to"fix" these problems? Probably, but again, not likely. A lot of the social youth are caring people and up until they get to be around...25, unless a hardcore liberal or just one of the very few genuinely careing people out there, stop caring about others. I used to want to save the world nad fix everyones problems. Then one day, I tried...and saved nothing. People will do what people do. Lots of suicide attempts are a cry of help, or so they say. My ex tried to twice while we were together (and no its not cause of me - she was already screwed - zoloft, lithium, paxil...the list goes on...AND she drank too much). She never set it up to actually happen though, just the gestures and cries for help. There are those that are serious about it. I can't understand it at all. I can't say I havent thought baout it, but Im sure EVERYONE has thought about it once or twice. For me, I feared the pain and the failure of it. Then I realized that ... If i could mess the situation up, then you cna fix it. Life has a funny balance like that. If you cant fix it, you probably arent trying hard enough or not asking for the right help.

...But to answer teh question - Yes, it shoudl be legal with strict stipulations. Why is it debateable over the legality of abortion, peoples justice and justifiable homicide, or manslaughter...but suicide is such an openly a black and white case? NAything dealing with the life or death of a fellow human being, I think needs to have the aspects looked at carfully and then a set of rules applied to it. Not everyone will agree with rules put forth, but thats the nice thing about majority rule. Not everyone has to.

[Sera13]

Ok i am going to go against my own morals and post somthing in this topic.

First i have to say (as many others have stated before) Clinical Depression is not an "all in your head" situation. It is a chemical imbalance in your head. However it is in part, in your head, hints methods of treatment such as therapy. Often if you are able to disscuss the things that make you feel bad, it relives some of the stress levels, Thus your still depressed, however alot less tempted to commit suicide, or if you dont know what it is they will help you find out what things in your life may trigger break downs and over the top reactions. Many times a child will feel like they are being forced into seeing the Therapist and will refuse to speak and further make the problem worse. However more often than not, Those are the attention whore "emo" kids if you should say. They often act out of "no one loves me so ill cut to catch their attention" motives. Most of the time a truely depressed child will accept therapy becuase the recognize that speaking of the problem to anyone who is willing to give some guidance in the situations is often very helpful. However the attention who will boast to everyone about how "depressed they are and how much their life sucks and they hate it and shoudl just end it right there." However most clinically depressed people tend to try and hide their issuse and bottle them up, making it difficult to recognise they need help. Often times, they will become tired of being depressed and will carefully pick some one to reach out to get help from.

Another method of threatment is drugs that are made to balance the chemicals and cuase you to feel better. Sort of "being drugged into a flase reality" type of situation. However in recent studies they have proven that theres a 50% chance the drug with have a reverse affect and instead of healing the victim of this illness, it will simply Drive them into futher depression and often ending in suicide attempts.

You cannot truely understand clinical depression and suicidal thoughs unless your affected by it however. Theres an ovbious diffrence in the though patterns of a clinically depressed person and a mentally health person. that is often and easy way to seperate the attention whores from the victims.

Heres a little back ground I was diagnosed as Manic Deppressive when i was in forth grade, along with several other illnesses as well.. I was placed on medicine which rapidly made the problem increase so they took me back off quickly and tired several others meds. Nothing seemed to do the trick. I also saw the same councilor from forth grade till mid freshman year. In that time i was also court ordered to see other councilors as well so fo a while i was seeing 4 to 5 councilors a week. This only seemed to make things worse and more hectic so that ended I was seeing only my councilor and an In-home family councilor ( i had many family issuses) It seemed most of my problems had rooted back from my father and my childhood which frankly i dont remeber. But when all said and done They couldnt really do anything about my illness. My father refused to accept that his treatment cuase most of my depression, My meds only made me worse, And my councilor finally retired. At this point i Begin to bond with my vice principle and my councilor at my school in te 10th grade. they knew all about me and my past. Throughout that year they called the Deparement of child services and the Deparatment of health serives on my father a total of 3 or 4 times and i was often mssing alot of class to speak with councilors and work out issuse. I was sent home from school twice becuase they felt i was suicidal (which mind you i was but afraid to admit becuase of my father and his reactions to it) I was let back in school and things seemed to go fine. But then a couple days latter one of my friends who had previously stuggled with suicidal thoughts and actions walked up to me and said we needed to talk and dragged me away. As soon as we were alone she asked me to pull up my sleeves becuase some how she knew. as soon as i did she started balling. The night before i had attempted to kill myself. I wasnt just cutting. I has completely mutilated both arms until there was no visible skin from my wrists to my elbows. I broke down right there and told her everything about how i was afraid to get help becuase my father and i knew i needed help and that it was overcoming me, we then turned to the next people who knew me best, my counilor ro vice principle, my mother was called and things worked themselves out, i was sent to the doctor who basically addmited to there was nothing she could do that we hadnt tried before. After many days of talking about everythign that had overcome me and stuff i felt alot better. i also vowed to not try and kill myself anymore. I now am engaged and have big plans for my life but i still find my self often depressed however i am happier than i have ever been as my over all aspect on my life. I will be fighting this illness for the rest of my life. But it is somthing possible to fight with the right amounts of effort and the right people backing you up. My fiance is my savior without a doubt. He will do anything to help me through any situation.

As for if it shoudl be illigal, No. Children who attempt it should not be put in jail that will make thigns worse, they should be helped as much as possible. let the child tell you what they want the more they feel they have control, the more they are comfortable, resulting in quicker progress. I do believe helping some one attempt suicide should be illegal becuase its still assisting a murder.

[senate7377]

Yes, I understand you think it should be illegalt o assist in a suicide. I used to feel very strongly about that too. One day, I got to watch my grandfather waste away and everyday he'd open his eyes, look at me and say "why can't I just die? I hurt, I miss my wife, I've done all I can do and can no longer contribute to society, but most of all I just hurt...I just hurt...and it never ends." Would it then be more humanitarian to let them suffer the pain and die in pain, remembering only pain in their death simply becuase you find murder and suicide wrong? Again, I think its a case by case issue. The kids who commit suicide - sometimes I want to scoff at them and say they are pussies, but at teh same time I rememebr what it was like walking in t a building of 530 people and only maybe 20 of them knew your name, 10 of which hated you, 5 of which were indifferent and the other 5 would fight for you to the death. I wanst a popular kid, I ran my mouth (big surprise huh?), I talked smack, I got in fights, I was a nerd, I got A's in all AP classes, I graduated at 16... for all intents and purposes, I was...the school dork. I had girls trick me into thinking they wantd to go to prom with me, I had "friends" set me up to get my ass beat in public during lunch. I've had my books stolen, my locker pissed in, I can even tell you what it feels like to be shoved in a 3' X 3' wodden box with 800lbs of free weights on top so that I couldnt get out for 3 hours. Kids are cruel littlebastards and its the reason why I hate the preps and yuppies and the affluent. Where was anyone when all I wanted was someone to care. Thats teh past though, and yes, at times I still deal with that, but it was the driving force behind what I am now. I went on to be Army Military intel, airborne, air assault, completed Sere School I was an Eagle Scout, went through ranger school, trained in sniper school...and for all intents and purposes...am a stereotypical badass with out looking like one. You'd never know it by looking at me that I either was someone who completed any of those things, or endured the pain and anger of those things. It comes down to the ability to handle things. Not everyone is me and not everyone can handle what I did. To be fair, I can't honestly say I can handle the things that some people deal with. I firmly believe that aspects of someones life that suck, do so only because they are the ones living it. You CAN NOT ever truely walk a mile in someones shoes, empathy is a theory only. However, the kids that do off themselves, havent really lived to understand what hate, challenge, ridicule, backstabbing, suffering, poverty, love, hope, fear, accomplishment, success, or compassion are. None of it is clear to them, and its funny that most teens think they really know what they are. I promise you, you don't and if you really honestly do - I'm both sorry and happy for you - you've got an expensive leg up.

Sometimes things just...SNAP in someones mind, like a caged animal with no where to go, but nothing to attack...they mentally just go. I think that the depression isnt so much a way of being upset that things are bad, but more being bad for them. It IS a selfish act to a degree becuase they are only thinking of themselves. The ones that say "oh, I was going to kill myself becuase my family would be better off with out me", are really saying that they feel bad for themselves and in turn suspect that others suffer for their selfishness. I can not speak for everyone, and thats why I feel psychology fails more often than anything else. It was one of my majors in college, until I felt it was a failed science (again a different topic so I wont go on about that, I also majored in Business Law and minored in Art at UNC - but nothing more than an associates in all three, Im going back to school soon though, anyway...)

The adults that commit suicide I honestly feel more often then not are doing it as an escape. The father who commits suicide becuase either his wife leaves him, or becuase he was caught cheating, the released prisoner who served 40 years in prison, or the housewife who ODs on pills becuase she feels like her family is ungrateful. Its an ecapse in my eyes, an understandable one, but one none the less. ALMOST nothing in life is that bad, there is a way to overcome any and every challenge. Being human and subject to my own demons as well, I can think of a few instances that suicide would cross my mind. If say, I came home and I found my wife and son dead... Id kill myself - but not until I went on a man hunt... but when I was done... I'd probably want to go be with them. If say, I was in so much physical pain that it bled into my mental health, I'd ask to be let go. What kind of life is it, if all you do is suffer. Again I dont mean minor and selfcentered pain, but hte kind of pain that circumstance dictates regardless of outcome, is inescapable. If my family were killed, I honestly wouldn't want the pain to end. Id like to have that driving force to compel me to take care of the person responsible (unless it was an honest to God accident, then...thats a different story).

I do not belive that the people attempting sucide should be jailed and agree with Sera on that. It will make it worse. I attended PIW (Psychiatriac Institue of Washington DC for three years from age 10 - 13. During htat time I watch kids go in there, who at first were just crying out for attention and had family communication problems, but after time, felt secluded and it became WHO they were, in the end making it exponentially worse. Locking someone up for that on a minor level isnt going to fix it. It reported that suicide attempts among youth has been on the rise sice the 1960s. Whether or not thats becuase we started to pay more attention attention to that or not is unknown to me, but the report says its been on the rise. Parallel to that, divorce, crime have risen while educational standards, average income in relation to inflation and cost of living, and social moral standards have been on the decline. Could these have anything to do with one another I wonder? Its not really a question that needs to be answerd, becuase the more time you put into that, the less time you have to actually pull someone aside and ask them "how are you?... No, really, I'm interested in you as a person, whats up?" You'd be amazed at teh reaction you get when you add honesty and sincerity to a question. We walk around asking "What can you do for me?", "What do I get from this?", "This benefits me how?" All of these questions have one key word - ME. Its about all I hear from anyone these days. "Blah blah bla-blah blah ME. Blah me, Me Blah me." Do you think maybe its a subconscious cry for honest attention? We pay thousands of dollars for a car that we'll drive for 3 years and thousands more to make it look pretty. We'll pay thousands of dollars on an HD TV, video games, music, clothes, and movies...yet cant pay 5 minutes attention, something virtually free in the way of money - to a damn person around us. What are we? Japan? You want social probelms - go there... we've got it good

[Sera13]

oops

[Sera13]

This is the major things i saw i wanted to discuss a timy bit further, i may add some more later...


Yes, I understand you think it should be illegalt o assist in a suicide. I used to feel very strongly about that too. One day, I got to watch my grandfather waste away and everyday he'd open his eyes, look at me and say "why can't I just die? I hurt, I miss my wife, I've done all I can do and can no longer contribute to society, but most of all I just hurt...I just hurt...and it never ends." Would it then be more humanitarian to let them suffer the pain and die in pain, remembering only pain in their death simply becuase you find murder and suicide wrong? Again, I think its a case by case issue.

I do not think that Sucide and aiding in suicide is a case by case issue no matter what. Ive seen suffering of people from all ages races and creeds the ones who did not off them selves found to have somthing to go on. It may not be evident or something that is seemingly important at all, but theres always SOMTHING. The ones who did off them selves missed out on so much. After they died the amount of things they had to live for quicly surfaced and it was horrible to think they had NOTHING.


The kids who commit suicide - sometimes I want to scoff at them and say they are pussies, but at teh same time I rememebr what it was like walking in t a building of 530 people and only maybe 20 of them knew your name, 10 of which hated you, 5 of which were indifferent and the other 5 would fight for you to the death. I wanst a popular kid, I ran my mouth (big surprise huh?), I talked smack, I got in fights, I was a nerd, I got A's in all AP classes, I graduated at 16...... why I hate the preps and yuppies and the affluent. Where was anyone when all I wanted was someone to care. Thats teh past though, and yes, at times I still deal with that, but it was the driving force behind what I am now.

About scoffing the kids, i wouldnt say thats what i feel.. exacitally.. its more of a "WTF ARE YOU STUPID... LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE GOING FOR YOU.. STOP BEING STUPID.. ILL HELP YOU.." type of thing..

but i feel obligated to offer help and any guidace and can give thats becuase i remeber what it was like to be in their position.. I was over wieght, i was constantly reminded of how fat and ugly i was however looking back i was never fat, just a little chubby, and anything more would have been an exageration and i have always had a pretty face and several other features however i could never see that i only saw fat and ugly as i had been told for years. I started highschool and had never made below a 98 on any school assignment in my life but every one still instisted on calling me stupid and a slacker that got into my head and at the end of freshman year i was still in all honors classes and such but barley pulling a 2.8 gpa sophmore year i had finally begin the healing process as you should say i was in all honors and AP classes and pulled my gpa to a 3.6 now i am faced with my final year of high school. I have 17 credits already and my junior year starts in 3 weeks i will be in all AP classes and then fluff classes to fill up my free credit spaces. then i will be starting college next fall. It seems as all the kid who were tormented and wanted to off themselves the most were often the ones to turn out best they grow up quicker and get rid of their "rose colored glasses" much quicker than most, In time to acctually make somthign of themselves.




It comes down to the ability to handle things. Not everyone is me and not everyone can handle what I did. To be fair, I can't honestly say I can handle the things that some people deal with. I firmly believe that aspects of someones life that suck, do so only because they are the ones living it. You CAN NOT ever truely walk a mile in someones shoes, empathy is a theory only.

so many people are saying things like "I dont see why it so hard for them to deal with it" or " i could make it through that" Every person has a diffrent mind and diffrent mental capasity diffrent emotional levels and many other vital aspects. anyone thing could happen to several diffrent people and it would have just as many diffrent outcomes. I whole heartedly agree with senate when he says "you CAN NOT ever truely walk a mile in someones shoes"


However, the kids that do off themselves, havent really lived to understand what hate, challenge, ridicule, backstabbing, suffering, poverty, love, hope, fear, accomplishment, success, or compassion are. None of it is clear to them, and its funny that most teens think they really know what they are. I promise you, you don't and if you really honestly do - I'm both sorry and happy for you - you've got an expensive leg up.



I disagree with this SOME people have been forced through situations that most will NEVER have to deal with. There are so many things many people have done that are true eye openers and often can fully understand the concepts of many of those things at a much younger age than i feel like it fair to them. Realty can be cruel.

[Sera13]

This is the major things i saw i wanted to discuss a timy bit further, i may add some more later...


Yes, I understand you think it should be illegalt o assist in a suicide. I used to feel very strongly about that too. One day, I got to watch my grandfather waste away and everyday he'd open his eyes, look at me and say "why can't I just die? I hurt, I miss my wife, I've done all I can do and can no longer contribute to society, but most of all I just hurt...I just hurt...and it never ends." Would it then be more humanitarian to let them suffer the pain and die in pain, remembering only pain in their death simply becuase you find murder and suicide wrong? Again, I think its a case by case issue.

I do not think that Sucide and aiding in suicide is a case by case issue no matter what. Ive seen suffering of people from all ages races and creeds the ones who did not off them selves found to have somthing to go on. It may not be evident or something that is seemingly important at all, but theres always SOMTHING. The ones who did off them selves missed out on so much. After they died the amount of things they had to live for quicly surfaced and it was horrible to think they had NOTHING.


The kids who commit suicide - sometimes I want to scoff at them and say they are pussies, but at teh same time I rememebr what it was like walking in t a building of 530 people and only maybe 20 of them knew your name, 10 of which hated you, 5 of which were indifferent and the other 5 would fight for you to the death. I wanst a popular kid, I ran my mouth (big surprise huh?), I talked smack, I got in fights, I was a nerd, I got A's in all AP classes, I graduated at 16...... why I hate the preps and yuppies and the affluent. Where was anyone when all I wanted was someone to care. Thats teh past though, and yes, at times I still deal with that, but it was the driving force behind what I am now.

About scoffing the kids, i wouldnt say thats what i feel.. exacitally.. its more of a "WTF ARE YOU STUPID... LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE GOING FOR YOU.. STOP BEING STUPID.. ILL HELP YOU.." type of thing..

but i feel obligated to offer help and any guidace and can give thats becuase i remeber what it was like to be in their position.. I was over wieght, i was constantly reminded of how fat and ugly i was however looking back i was never fat, just a little chubby, and anything more would have been an exageration and i have always had a pretty face and several other features however i could never see that i only saw fat and ugly as i had been told for years. I started highschool and had never made below a 98 on any school assignment in my life but every one still instisted on calling me stupid and a slacker that got into my head and at the end of freshman year i was still in all honors classes and such but barley pulling a 2.8 gpa sophmore year i had finally begin the healing process as you should say i was in all honors and AP classes and pulled my gpa to a 3.6 now i am faced with my final year of high school. I have 17 credits already and my junior year starts in 3 weeks i will be in all AP classes and then fluff classes to fill up my free credit spaces. then i will be starting college next fall. It seems as all the kid who were tormented and wanted to off themselves the most were often the ones to turn out best they grow up quicker and get rid of their "rose colored glasses" much quicker than most, In time to acctually make somthign of themselves.




It comes down to the ability to handle things. Not everyone is me and not everyone can handle what I did. To be fair, I can't honestly say I can handle the things that some people deal with. I firmly believe that aspects of someones life that suck, do so only because they are the ones living it. You CAN NOT ever truely walk a mile in someones shoes, empathy is a theory only.

so many people are saying things like "I dont see why it so hard for them to deal with it" or " i could make it through that" Every person has a diffrent mind and diffrent mental capasity diffrent emotional levels and many other vital aspects. anyone thing could happen to several diffrent people and it would have just as many diffrent outcomes. I whole heartedly agree with senate when he says "you CAN NOT ever truely walk a mile in someones shoes"


However, the kids that do off themselves, havent really lived to understand what hate, challenge, ridicule, backstabbing, suffering, poverty, love, hope, fear, accomplishment, success, or compassion are. None of it is clear to them, and its funny that most teens think they really know what they are. I promise you, you don't and if you really honestly do - I'm both sorry and happy for you - you've got an expensive leg up.



I disagree with this SOME people have been forced through situations that most will NEVER have to deal with. There are so many things many people have done that are true eye openers and often can fully understand the concepts of many of those things at a much younger age than i feel like it fair to them. Realty can be cruel.

[senate7377]

I do not think that Sucide and aiding in suicide is a case by case issue no matter what. Ive seen suffering of people from all ages races and creeds the ones who did not off them selves found to have somthing to go on. It may not be evident or something that is seemingly important at all, but theres always SOMTHING. The ones who did off them selves missed out on so much. After they died the amount of things they had to live for quicly surfaced and it was horrible to think they had NOTHING.

This statement reinforces my prior about things in life are a case by case basis. The fact we are even debating this proves it. You can NOT walk in others shoes and by assuming that you can empathise with the suffering is in reality, foolish. Who are you to pretend to understand the pain I feel if I felt it. You can only sympathize, but never truely understand me. What sucks for me may not suck for you, and vice versa (we've established a common ground there). In the cases of personal suffering at an elderly age, I'd be interested in hearing what you would consider worth living for? In the case of my grandfather, had he said he wanted to be euthanized, I'd ask the Dr. if he'd consider it. The man had nothing left but pain and sorrow. Keeping him alive would be testament to personal selfishness. It IS case by case. Not everyone is WILLING to look for things to live for and to force it down their throat in many cases makes it worse. A time comes when you want nothing more than to go... let them. I agree child suicide is unfortunate and in their case reasons for living on can be made. Once again, like I said; they have not had the opportunity to understand what hope, fear, love, hate, pain, surprise, compassion, and lonliness truley are (and I feel bad if they feel that they really do). For all intents and purposes, they are emotionally uneducated. Marriage in respect to the climbing divorce rate proves this to a degree when considering the declining age of the couples being married.

So, I'm interested in hearing what would be your reason to keep Terri Schavio alive? The mental health of her parents? Thats total disergard for the person in potential suffering. Terri, was supposedly unaware of her condition, the Dr. said she'd never come out of her state, the parents hurt looking at her, and she was practically an empty husk of a person. When is trading a life beneficial? - its not chess, in some cases its selfish to hold on. You're going on the assumption that there is a rainbow after EVERY storm. There is not. For you there may be, but the depressed mind, in particular those who feel most comfortable in bad situations, will create a state of dispair for themselves becuase it suits them best. Its sort of like a mental Stockholm Syndrome. I'm not going to pretned to understand the innermost workings of the human mind, especially since TEAMS of Drs. can't do that. Im aware that hers is a differnet sitaution and was not a suicide case, but the principle behind it here is the same.

About scoffing the kids, i wouldnt say thats what i feel.. exacitally.. its more of a "WTF ARE YOU STUPID... LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE GOING FOR YOU.. STOP BEING STUPID.. ILL HELP YOU.." type of thing..

but i feel obligated to offer help and any guidace and can give thats becuase i remeber what it was like to be in their position.. I was over wieght, i was constantly reminded of how fat and ugly i was however looking back i was never fat, just a little chubby, and anything more would have been an exageration and i have always had a pretty face and several other features however i could never see that i only saw fat and ugly as i had been told for years. I started highschool and had never made below a 98 on any school assignment in my life but every one still instisted on calling me stupid and a slacker that got into my head and at the end of freshman year i was still in all honors classes and such but barley pulling a 2.8 gpa sophmore year i had finally begin the healing process as you should say i was in all honors and AP classes and pulled my gpa to a 3.6 now i am faced with my final year of high school. I have 17 credits already and my junior year starts in 3 weeks i will be in all AP classes and then fluff classes to fill up my free credit spaces. then i will be starting college next fall. It seems as all the kid who were tormented and wanted to off themselves the most were often the ones to turn out best they grow up quicker and get rid of their "rose colored glasses" much quicker than most, In time to acctually make somthign of themselves.

So, was this a personal or social problem that you are struggling with? Were you yearning for social acceptance so much so, that you believe the badgering pecks of your peers just so that you felt as if at least they accepted something about you? Was it maybe, your inability to construct confidence within your own abilities in the face of anthing remotely challenging? Sounds rather harsh when I phrase the question that way right? Either way, it was your fault when approached from that direction. When you first read it, and be honest, what was your initial reaction. Did "YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT FEELS" come across your mind? I could pick further and state that your use of "quicker", constant misspellings, starting a sentence with "but", lack of proper punctuation, and in general you wouldn't use the same word over three letters in the same sentence. Those examples warrant claims of low intelligence from your peers if you really are headed to AP classes. Those examples alone cause one to wonder if you are in fact above B level English.(its not an attack, just used it for a low blow example to stir emotion, I often make typing mistakes, but it does not mean I'm horrible at English, so don't take it wrong). I could go on to say that I too, am not stupid yet make gramtical errors, misspellings and that I've been falsely judged based upon those examples. I've been accused and ridculed of that even here. I'm sure you would then think, even for a moment, "Yes, but...", giving way to doubtful rebuttals of how your case differs from mine. You'd be right if you thought those things.

I've never been fat, or pudgy, chubby, overweight, portly, festively plump, obese, or anything remotely close. How then would I justifiably comfort a suicidal person, who is contemplating such actions over the peer based ridicule of their weight? I would have NO clue about what it was to be fat. Would I say "Well you're not fat", which inturn is likely to recieve "Then what am I?" How do I respond? Should I lie to benefit them? Pretned I understood, risking eventual exposre as the conversation went on? Should I have opened it up differently? Would the opening have any real bearing on the end? I'm sure the weight issue would surafce in the conversation at some point since its the root of the problem Are they mentally stable and receptive enough to have their thoughts diverted in the direction of encouragement? What kind of encouragement would I use?. It depends on the person and the situation as to how you handle the case.

Its noble to want to help everyone you come in contact with becuase you honestly believe you understand their pain or because you whole heartedly feel that everyone has a reason to live. Unfortunately, what you think and feel means nothing to a set mind. Sera, you can not help, and often will not help those unwilling of help. As the phrase goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink".


I disagree with this SOME people have been forced through situations that most will NEVER have to deal with. There are so many things many people have done that are true eye openers and often can fully understand the concepts of many of those things at a much younger age than i feel like it fair to them. Realty can be cruel.

Once again, you've reiterated the "case by case" argument. SOME, is a depentant word, where if it is not ALL of one thing or ALL of another, then the situation at hand requires the analytical processing of the stipulations that have turned ALL into SOME.. You are right though, atrocities such as rape and child molestation are a forced thing. It extremely unfortunate that some sick effing bastid, took it upon themselves to remove the option of an innocent aspect of life for someone else. Its one of my cases for the death penalty. The choice was removed invoulentarily from the victim, therefore the same choice will be invoulentarily removed for you. Cut and dry, should have thought of that earlier becuase at least the offender knew right from wrong. Now the victim is left questioning it for the rest of their natural effing life. Effing effers... Anyway, there are many things in life that are eye openers. Some of them good and some of them bad, but the degree to which they are held is in the perspective of the ones who see them, experience them and have to experience them. Everyone deals with things different, and we've agreed on that, but saying that things are never case by case, is stating that life is black and white. EVERYTHING is case by case. No one is a little bit pregnant (don't believe the EPT commercial), a person is not kind of dead, and cold blooded murder is not sometimes okay. For these example, yes - there is a definate balck and white, but to separate that black and white in search of that grey area, you must study it on a case by case basis. Terri Schavio was indeed, kind of dead. Early pregnancy is considered a "little bit pregnant" (ok, NOW belive the EPT commercial), and you can't know the murder was in cold blood until you investigate. This is my entire point. Stretchingyourself thin to save the world leads to an unrequited love of sorts...its depressing, factual and never changing simply becuase its a different case for each of us..

[Sera13]

i dont have time to read all that right now but i will read more and edit it later but for now i have to say

There is no special circumstance were suicide or helping some one in it is any way right. Period. In the case of people that have become in a veigstated state are not what i would consider suicide or murder either. The only reason they are alive is becuase machines humans have put them on force them to stay alive completely unaware of anything. If these machines did not exsist they would have died regaurdless..


Secondly.. No i never thought anything of the sort about how.. "you dont know how it feels" or anything like this you have completely missread me. About me, I wasnt stiving for social acceptance.. i never had to do that infact i enjoy less people i have "followers" if you will.. and very many of them who live on my every word. and i hate it. I help people becuase i hate to see anyone feel the way i, as well as so many others, have felt. I try to make people feel better becuase i am a good person.

about your comments on my spelling and poor grammer has alot to do with the high dosage of muscule relaxers i am currently on becuase of some what turned out to be severe back damage. also i will openly admit i have never been much of a speller. However I was in AP english last year and made the second highest grade in the class. I have been in a couple AP classes already. and i am in the gifted program in my school theres about 5 students in it out of over 1,500 in my school. my writing have been published in the past ive been payed money for them as well not to mention winning many contests, My intellegence is nothing to question.

Thats all my time.. so ill edit more in later.

[senate7377]

Sera? I said I the things about spelliong and grammar as an example to arouse emotion. It obviously worked, but was not intended to be mean or hurtful. Only in a way that ywould oput perspective to what I was saying. Re-read what I wrote very carefully. You are aware and self-conscious about it to some extent. Otherwise what would be the point in explaining it to me, a person who's life it has no bearing or conseqence?

I didn't say you WOULD say "you don't know how it feels", I said I'm sure you would or that you might.

ok...you're not grasping something in what I have painfully taken time in making sure that you would understand. I used Terry Schavio as an illustrative example for principle only, but my own grandfather as a literal example. I then went on to say that the CASE is different for a child or someone who really DOES have a reason.

I know you arent done reading it, but...at least read the whole thing and understand it prior to posting anything at all. I often go back and edit, but I've at least read and understood the article prior to my initialpost and usually done as an after thought..

EDIT:

You know what? ok... I'll explain the case issue like this and go along with your idea that you are right...

SOME people are born with a chemical imbalance that can lead to clinicla manic depression. Others, suffer through an experience that puts them in such a state. Not all of them recieve the same form of treatment for the same affliction because of HOW it comes about. You may medicate one, while the other simply counsel. Their treatment is CASE DEPENDANT. The theory here is also applied to suicide; where the elderly and suffering that have nothing in reality to survive for VS the child or young adult who feel the same way, but according to you, have reason to go on.

See also : Horses and water.

In thinking on it a bit more... I'd like to know how exactly one would prosecute a suicide "victim". At least they'd be dressed for court.

[Sera13]

yeah um.. im sorry about my last post it was only after simply glaces over some parts of your post i didnt really read much there for i was out of place and just made my self look pretty stupid however i will read your posts next time i get a chance and then see what i really have to say.. sorry for my mistakes

[senate7377]

Im not comiong down onyou Sera, its cool, just kind of saying that you may wanna read it before you post something so you don't look "hasty". That is all.

[Sera13]

Im not comiong down onyou Sera, its cool, just kind of saying that you may wanna read it before you post something so you don't look "hasty". That is all.

i completely understand and dont think your comming down on me, but your correct i really shoudl have atleast, you know, READ it before posting about it.. i acctually feel bad for doing somthing like that..

[Lightknight924]

This is a very shaky topic, though it may not ever be settled. Or could it be already settled? What I'm trying to say is that everyone has their reasons to commit suicide. Whether it's dpression or any other type of mental/physical desease. Or rejection or hate or whatever else reason you might have. Maybe you just want sympathy. Already has FFR discussed it. Nameing all the reasons I named in this post and more. You can't put it more out.This topic is hitting it's peak. It is getting old. I think this thread started in late May early June. That's all I have to say about this.

P.S. No, in my opinion helping in a suicide should not be charged as murder if the person had asked you to help them end their life. Nor should it be illegal to commit suicide. Therefor, if you commit suicide and it's illegal.....well then I don't think you should care since your well, dead. So yeah.

[Vamps]

There are so many opinions in this thread that i would LOVE to sit here and say "well thats wrong...u wouldnt know a thing".....and i'd LOVE to have a screaming match with some of the people that have posted in this thread. But as they are only posting their OPINIONS.....there is no point in any of that. I read the whole 9 pages before i said anything...and came to the conclusion that its a really monotonous thread! All you people who say "oh people with depression can talk themselves out of it and ur just attention seeking"....have obviously never really ATLEAST gotten to know someone who suffers with clinical depression! For those people, if you go to your local video store...I'm quite certain you will find a movie called "prozac nation". Not all people with depression are like this girl, but the movie gives a good insite on how a sufferer feels. If you cant find the movie...find the boo