Top of the forums?

[chardish]

The more astute of you may have noticed that this forum is now invisible to everyone but the TWG usergroup.

Would you rather this forum be closer to the top of the forums, or where it is beside the Garbage Bin?

[Kilgamayan]

Top. I hate having to scroll all the way down here because I don't look at any forums beyond Simulator Files.

[evilbutterfly]

Top most definitly. This is one of the only reasons I come to FFR now, so bring it on up. It's not like it'll interfere with anybody else's activities, and I'm pretty sure it was said that this would happen a while ago.

[HansSky]

Agreed. Move it on up.

[chardish]

(In case you couldn't tell, I also believe that it's time to move it up.)

[ddrruler]

Top. I hate having to scroll all the way down here because I don't look at any forums beyond Simulator Files. Excatly.

[Snapps]

I believe it should be under FFR General.

[lightdarkness]

The TWG forum doesn't fit at the top of the forums.

It isn't that hard to scroll down, if we wanted to make it easier for everyone to access their favorite forum, how would you do that?

It doesn't belong up there, and it isn't too hard to scroll down.

[Kilgamayan]

But is there an *actual* reason why it would be good to leave it here?

I can think of an instance where it would be beneficial to have it at the top of the forums. Is there a reason it would be beneficial to have it at the bottom?

[alainbryden]

I vote to put it up top just underneath "life" It doesn't matter too much to me though, because I have the forum bookmarked.

[chardish]

if we wanted to make it easier for everyone to access their favorite forum, how would you do that?

I don't understand your question, and I still don't see a reason why it belongs at the bottom, especially for a group of people who enjoy this forum more than the rest of the forums. In addition, since the forum is invisible, it seems like this should be a majority decision of the people who subscribe to this forum.

Staff Forum is at the top of the forums, because it's invisible to everyone else and something the staff want to see often. Shouldn't TWG be at the top for the same reason?

[Squeek]

It's not a "life" thing though.

It's perfect for "Other" because that's what it is. It's a forum game that has more respect than the "Game" forum, so it's to stay with that.

Come on, this isn't hard.

~Squeek

[Kilgamayan]

So you'd rather the location of this forum be inconvenient when it could be convenient at no extra cost whatsoever?

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[lightdarkness]

So you'd rather the location of this forum be inconvenient when it could be convenient at no extra cost whatsoever?

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Perhaps we should move up the Garbage bin to the top for all the spammers?

[Kilgamayan]

But that would get in the way of (read: inconvenience) those who don't wish to see the Garbage Bin.

[Squeek]

Hey, if we're going on the popularity of the forum sections, guess what goes to the BOTTOM of the forums?

Why should a tiny forum section such as this, even if it is hidden to most members, be at the top with the most popular sections? It doesn't make sense to me to accomodate for the 20-30 people that take part in these when there are 2-3,000 other people here.

If you do go through with this, delete me. I don't want to deal with it and I swore I'd never play again. I'll probably not even host again due to the amount of stress it put on me, and I'll likely not play infiltration just because I think someone else that actually would like to play the game (Omega) deserves my spot.

~Squeek

[Kilgamayan]

What the hell kind of thinking is that? You'd quit the game just because it takes less effort to get to it?

I guess we can tell how committed you are to it.

Fine, leave. We'd be better off without you.

[evilbutterfly]

You guys bring up moving other forums around, but I think what you fail to realize is that the only people this will affect are the few people who are in the usergroup. If you moved the garbage bin up to the top, everybody would see the change. If you move this up to the top, only we will notice. Thus, only the people who it would be convenient for would see the change, so you're accomodating one group without hindering the rest of the members in any way whatsoever. I don't see what the problem is, people....

[lightdarkness]

I don't see what the big fuss is!

The location of this forum is in the category that best suits it. It's not hard to scroll down here. I tried it! It took one mouse wheel scroll. Also... this new fangled browser called "firefox" has quick links, so you can jump right to the TWG with ONE CLICK!

[chardish]

I don't understand why you're stuck on the belief that people who play this game want to be inconvenienced by scrolling down to the bottom of the forums.

You act as if this change is going to affect the thousands of forum users who can't see the forum.

[Kilgamayan]

Stop sucking Firefox's dick and think about this logically, and you'll realize that this plan has small benfits vs. zero cost.

[lightdarkness]

The thing is, it doesn't belong up there! It's not about making it easier for people, it's about putting the forum where it's best suited; the TWG forum isn't meant for Life, but rather Other.

[Kilgamayan]

Who's going to know?

If putting it under Life pains you so much, just create a new category.

[chardish]

In a few days, the current TWG forum will become hidden to many users, and moved below Critical Thinking.

[The_Q]

Although it will be hidden from many users it still might distract from the users that do see it. It's all about location. There are two main reasons we ought to keep it down here. One includes me being a greedy little fart...partially.

Ever wonder why milk is at the back of the grocery store? No, not because it's easier to install cooling devices back there, otherwise all frozen foods would be back there too. No, milk is in the back because many people buy milk. That means they'd have to pass all the other products to get to it. The same concept is valid for TWG forum but it has two benefits. One is that the TWG people can also conveniently visit their favorite forums on the way down. It's true that most of the forums are above TWG. It's also true that having that many forums in between TWG can distract other TWG players. This is good for TWG as it would more likely than not be distracting the players who only play half-heartedly. That lackadaisical kind of playing does not help the player nor the community succeed. (This only applies to TWG as it is highly competitive. CT is nowhere near as competitive as TWG is. I already own that area.)

And of course, you have to realize that the distraction caused by TWG when it's next to CT is absolutely atrocious. Those of us who post in CT regularly and often read TWG can be easily side tracked if we become curious. This takes away from the over all post count in CT. Let's run some numbers now. If 4 people are looking at the forum and all are in TWG and become distracted, maybe 2 will go back to their original destination and post or read. If TWG isn't there then we have 4 people posting or reading. Which has greater odds of increasing CT productivity? 4, of course. The numbers are always right.

Q

[Kilgamayan]

But don't you not want to play this anymore?

[The_Q]

Exactly. That's why I want it down where it won't bother or guilt me.

Q

[lightdarkness]

Q has a good point. The reason TWG was moved out of CT, was because the amount of posting in regular CT threads had greatly droped (along with cluttered the forum).

By putting it right below CT, the same thing might happen, as many of the CT frequenters visit and play TWG.

[Kilgamayan]

Exactly. That's why I want it down where it won't bother or guilt me.

Q

The point I was making was more or less that your opinion should logically be valued less since you're not actually playing (like Squeek's), but whatever.

I couldn't care less about the CT forum anyway - everyone knows what I think of it by now.

[chardish]

I never feel forced to look at other forums on the way down. I know where I'm going, and I go there. It's just the length of the trip, over and over again, that's irritating.

I also fear the distance is causing a lack of involvement. Compare the views earlier threads got to the views this thread got.

I understand that a concern that has been brought up is that Synth would get irritated having to see this forum at the top (since he sees everything.) However, I think that if Synth is visibly irritated by it or asks us to take it back down, we should of course do so. But for now it's just the general consensus that it should be taken up.

[lightdarkness]

I also fear the distance is causing a lack of involvement. Compare the views earlier threads got to the views this thread got.

Wait a second! We just hid it from everyone! Bassicly, we will rarely get new players! Here's my proposal.

Move TWG to "Gaming", let the actual forum be visible to everyone (like on the index), yet to view the threads, you have to be in the usergroup.

Bassicly, we still attract people, it's a little higher on the forums, and everyone is happy.

[chardish]

I don't like that idea LD. I think that making it visible but having the threads inaccessible is even worse than having it invisible, because then people will want to join the group without even wanting to play just so they can see the forum. Otherwise, they have to deal with an inaccessible forum in the way. If the Staff Forum worked the same way (visible, but unaccessible), people would be pissed.

I am going to write a short advertisement thread to be stickied somewhere (haven't decided where yet) enticing people to play.

I think this poor attempt at compromise makes no one happy. The people who wanted it to go up don't have it up far enough, the people who want it to stay down have it up further, and non-players have to deal with a forum visible on the index that they will never visit or want to visit.

Can we discuss the real reason you don't want to do this?

[The_Q]

I also fear the distance is causing a lack of involvement. Compare the views earlier threads got to the views this thread got.

That's one of my points. Also, look at the people who are posting here. Are they not higher calibur thinkers? The fact that it's a long trip is weeding out the poorer thinkers. It's a benefit. The cost is, of course, that you spend an irritatingly long time going up and down the forums. My recommendation: Don't close the window. Just minimize and have at it.

The point I was making was more or less that your opinion should logically be valued less since you're not actually playing (like Squeek's), but whatever.

I'm as affected by this as you are, even if I don't play. Although I don't really read TWG or take part in the games they do affect me. They affect CT. I personally don't enjoy bearing the burden of costs. That's why I'm putting most of the costs on you. Not only are they low costs but they're nothing but an irritation. In any case, because the decision affects me, my opinion ought to have the same weight as any one elses. The same goes for Squeek. The decision will affect anyone who can see TWG forum. Why should my vote be taken less seriously?

Q

[lightdarkness]

Can we discuss the real reason you don't want to do this?

The real reason is it just doesn't belong! TWG is not life (to most of us :-P), it belongs in Other. I tried moving it up 5 forums to "Gaming", but thats flawed?

It really isn't a big deal! Like you said, you know where you are going when you go to TWG. If anything, it will get in the way of people who are in the usergroup, but not in the current game.

Can anyone honestly say they wanted this change before this thread was here? (BESIDES CHARDISH)

[Kilgamayan]

Your vote should be taken with less weight because you're not willing to put the effort into this forum to make it what it is.

EDIT: LD, I already told you to make a new category if you were too worried about organization to put this in Life.

[chardish]

*post removed*

[Kilgamayan]

Can anyone honestly say they wanted this change before this thread was here? (BESIDES CHARDISH)

Yes, and I was personally wondering why it hadn't happened before today.

[The_Q]

If that's the case, Kilga, your vote should be counted with less weight. It affects CT, a forum you're unwilling to put effort into to better.

Q

[Squeek]

What the hell kind of thinking is that? You'd quit the game just because it takes less effort to get to it?

I guess we can tell how committed you are to it.

Fine, leave. We'd be better off without you.

2) I quit. That's right, I quit. I really didn't want to play again and only did so for Omega's sake. He ended up getting in on time and I didn't feel the need to drop out. I figured I could finally play the game as a human...obviously I'm not allowed to play this game as a regular role (A joke, chill out).

I only played Infiltration to get it off the ground. I even said this publicly on the forum somewhere, but I don't exactly know where and I don't exactly want to hunt it down right now.

Like I said, I left the game for moral issues it brought up for me. I didn't leave the game because I'm against it being at the top of the forum categories. Come on.

~Squeek

[Kilgamayan]

The decision would affect this forum more since it's the one actually getting moved. Any effects it has on CT are effects with less weight.

[Kilgamayan]

lol double post

I didn't leave the game because I'm against it being at the top of the forum categories. Come on.

If you do go through with this, delete me.

[chardish]

Isn't it selfish to complain that because people are spending more time at another part of the forums than the one you frequent, the one you frequent should be given more attention and the more popular forums should be intentionally pushed away in order to give yours an advantage?

CT and TWG aren't at war with each other. One of the reasons we made TWG its own forum was because you complained. It sounds like you'd be happier with TWG gone altogether, so why don't you just say so?

[Squeek]

The bottom line of your push for this occurance is as such:

"Guys, I hate using my scroll wheel / page down key / space bar / arrow key for less than a second to find the section of the forums that I will post on less than twice in a day and I suggest we move it to the top of the forums where it will conflict with other forums in a place where it does not belong."

This is the message I'm getting, at least.

~Squeek

[lightdarkness]

Quit bitching.

Locked.

[Squeek]

lol double post

I didn't leave the game because I'm against it being at the top of the forum categories. Come on.

If you do go through with this, delete me.

What's wrong with that? I can't influence moderator's decisions anyway, so if you're going to make it a hassle on me, please remove the hassle.

I did not quit TWG 4 games ago for the reason we are discussing right now, OK?

~Squeek

[lightdarkness]

*Unlocked*

I just got the same response from Soccr that I thought I would get from Synth.

Matt: Why is twg a sub category of life?
Matt: It makes the forums look all messed up
Jay: Only like 40 people can see it
Matt: Dude, don't make it a sub catagory.
Matt: It makes the site look crappy .
Matt: Make it just a forum in Life catagory.
Jay: No
Matt: It looks like crap now.
Jay: I refuse to do so, because it doesn't belong in life.
Matt: Yea...
Matt: Make it a category by itself.
Matt: Put that category right under life then.
Jay: Dude, I hate a 3 hour debate about this last night, I don't want to go through it again
Matt: Well...
Matt: Why a sub category? Make it a category by itself.
Matt: And did you ask James?
Jay: No
Matt: Why?
Jay: he isn't around
Matt: Personally this should be in the game forum
Matt: Don't you think?
Matt: Or in the Other Catagory?
Jay: Debate it with Chardish
Matt: FFR != TWG but I don't think Chardish understands that. Or any others for that matter...

[soccr743]

This explains how I feel about it (more in depth then above):

Matt: About the werewolf game forum...
Matt: I think that that it doesn't belong under life. Also, It shouldn't have its own category. It should go under the "Other" section because that is what it is. FFR != TWG to many people out there. I am not saying it is a bad game or shouldn't be played, however, I think that it should be put where it belongs.
Matt: If people don't want to scroll down and it is THAT IMPORTANT that they need to see it, they can bookmark it.

-----Soccr743-----

[alainbryden]

Wow, you are mods, don't you have more important things to obsess about on this site?

Okay, I suppose as a subcategory, it looks strange, because of the white block on blue, but I think it can still stay up in the life category, I'm surprised no one has brought this up but, come on, frigging anime is in the life category.

Numbers never lie, look at this:

Of all the regular posters who can see anime in the life category, I'm sure about 40% (this is generous) actually post there, or consider it their "life".

Of all the people who can see TWG in the life category, about 80% post there regularily and want it there. And that 20% makes up of Mods who can't change what they see - they are immture if they are truely hurt that there's an additional category up in life; and then ex-TWG players who for some reason don't want to have to see the game up there, but won't just unsubscribe from the member list. Stupid if you ask me.

You can't push down TWG to it's appropriate "game" category and not push down Anime to it's appropriate "The Arts" or "Other" category. What you did with that forum 'inconveniences' more people than the TWG forum. I fought that battle for a while and then realised, it really doesn't effing matter, does it?

Make TWG a normal 'life' category, not sub-category.

[Kilgamayan]

I am a stupidass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

[lightdarkness]

Jesus Christ. Get the **** back to working on R2 and stop wasting your time on piddily stuff like this.

Soccr didn't know about this til this morning.

And yes, we are going to take your advice, and not worry about this petty thing. It will stay down here.

EDIT: Bookmarks are fun.
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/twgforum.png

[alainbryden]

Lightdarkness, if you turn this into a mod war where you keep moving it back and forth against chardish I guarantee your asking to be demodded. Be more mature.

[Tps222]

Wow, people are making mountains out of molehills, not to get this war started again, but i don't see the big deal of just scrolling down. :(

[alainbryden]

Well we don't see the big deal of just leaving it up there. Especially since it's invisible.

[lightdarkness]

Lightdarkness, if you turn this into a mod war where you keep moving it back and forth against chardish I guarantee your asking to be demodded. Be more mature.

I am being more mature about this. I'm puting my foot down, and leaving this forum where it belongs.

[alainbryden]

Someones just going to put their foot down ontop of yours, and it's going to go back and forth until you need to effing bug Synthlight about this. gg

[lightdarkness]

Someones just going to put their foot down ontop of yours, and it's going to go back and forth until you need to effing bug Synthlight about this. gg

Chardish can't move forums; if it has to go to Synthlight, thats fine by me. I'm using my power to do what I think is best.

[Tps222]

I'm going to have to agree with LD, while a may be an inconvenience for people to click down, it doesn't desereve to be at the top, it's a catergorized site, and the mods like to keep it that way, organized. I really don't see any valid points on why it should be up there other then laziness, and if you are too lazy to scroll down, bookmark it, or just stop playing.

[alainbryden]

Yes but doing so against the established popular consent of those involved in the situation is NOT doing what's best. It's doing what you and a couple friends want and screw what everyone else thinks.

[alainbryden]

Well since no one reads my posts,

Okay, I suppose as a subcategory, it looks strange, because of the white block on blue, but I think it can still stay up in the life category, I'm surprised no one has brought this up but, come on, frigging anime is in the life category.

Numbers never lie, look at this:

Of all the regular posters who can see anime in the life category, I'm sure about 40% (this is generous) actually post there, or consider it their "life".

Of all the people who can see TWG in the life category, about 80% post there regularily and want it there. And that 20% makes up of Mods who can't change what they see - they are immture if they are truely hurt that there's an additional category up in life; and then ex-TWG players who for some reason don't want to have to see the game up there, but won't just unsubscribe from the member list. Stupid if you ask me.

You can't push down TWG to it's appropriate "game" category and not push down Anime to it's appropriate "The Arts" or "Other" category. What you did with that forum 'inconveniences' more people than the TWG forum. I fought that battle for a while and then realised, it really doesn't effing matter, does it?

Make TWG a normal 'life' category, not sub-category.

[lightdarkness]

Yes but doing so against the established popular consent of those involved in the situation is NOT doing what's best. It's doing what you and a couple friends want and screw what everyone else thinks.

last time I counted, it was 5 for moving it, and 5 against.

[alainbryden]

Exactly LD, there's no established popular consent, so why go ahead and take action anyways? Because it's what you want and screw everyone else. Did you even consider that not everyone who has an opinion has talked about it yet?

[Tps222]

I stand neutral in this affair, I could care less, scroll down, or click right away, whatever.

This is supposed to be a high-thinking game, not a bunch of chilidish name calling

[alainbryden]

The expression is "I couln't care less"

And there you go LD, 5 vs 4. Does it matter? no.

[soccr743]

Exactly LD, there's no established popular consent, so why go ahead and take action anyways? Because it's what you want and screw everyone else. Did you even consider that not everyone who has an opinion has talked about it yet?

Me and Jay talked about it this morning. We both decided it would be better under the other catagory...

And what would Synth do in this situation? He would say that it belongs under "Other" since not everyone's life is TWG.

-----Soccr743-----

[Kilgamayan]

Synth wouldn't do anything in this situation because he wouldn't even notice.

[lightdarkness]

This fighting is rediculous. It's two sides with a differenece of opinion. I tried to make a comprimise, but it failed.

If you would like us to bother Synth with something like this, i'm sure he wouldn't care that much, and I can say with much confidence that he would side with Matt and Myself.

[alainbryden]

If you're going to force me to put this out again TPS:

Okay, I suppose as a subcategory, it looks strange, because of the white block on blue, but I think it can still stay up in the life category, I'm surprised no one has brought this up but, come on, frigging anime is in the life category.

Numbers never lie, look at this:

Of all the regular posters who can see anime in the life category, I'm sure about 40% (this is generous) actually post there, or consider it their "life".

Of all the people who can see TWG in the life category, about 80% post there regularily and want it there. And that 20% makes up of Mods who can't change what they see - they are immture if they are truely hurt that there's an additional category up in life; and then ex-TWG players who for some reason don't want to have to see the game up there, but won't just unsubscribe from the member list. Stupid if you ask me.

You can't push down TWG to it's appropriate "game" category and not push down Anime to it's appropriate "The Arts" or "Other" category. What you did with that forum 'inconveniences' more people than the TWG forum. I fought that battle for a while and then realised, it really doesn't effing matter, does it?

Make TWG a normal 'life' category, not sub-category.



IT DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS NOT EVERYONE'S LIFE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT AFFECT EVERYONE

[lightdarkness]

You are purposfully putting Anime by it self, dont' forget TV and Movies are there too.

It's apparent that this is a stalemate. I'll ask Synth about it the next time I talk to him.

[Kilgamayan]

When you do, make sure you mention the "own forum category" thing.

I don't want to get screwed because you conveniently leave something out that would be beneficial to the other side.

[lightdarkness]

When you do, make sure you mention the "own forum category" thing.

I don't want to get screwed because you conveniently leave something out that would be beneficial to the other side.

I'll post the entire conversation.

[Tps222]

Yes, but along with anime goes T.V and Movies. Media. People watch T.V and movies, thus it is their life.
It's a general topic. TWG is a game. Media is not. Media, watching T.V and movies, most people experience, TWG is a game, it doesn't take part in our normal dail lives, thus it is not life, it's a game. You are just saying, "well anime is up there, and it doesn't desereve to be, so why can't twg be up." Two wrongs don't make a right, that's just effing up the categorization even more.

L.D beat me to my point :(

[alainbryden]

I'm saying if you REALLY cared about the categorisation, you wouldn't have that up there to. Show me a statistic that everybody's life is TV, because I know I haven't watched a second of TV or a movie in months.

If you care so damn much about things being properly categorised change "life" to "popular forums"


BTW show me a movies thread with more than 500 views and then show me a TWG game thread with less than 5000. There aren't many.

[Tps222]

It dosen't say "everyone's life", most people watch T.V. So it is the majorities life. I don't want to argue anymore because i couldn't (thanks for the grammar tip alain) care less. This is a pointless discussion that will never be resolved due to differing opinions.

What if we keep it down here for a month. Then next month we move it up, like a test, that way we can see if productivity goes up, or if people leave forums to go to others.

[alainbryden]

Considering the following month would be march, when most of these children are off on vacation, I would say that's a terrible plan ;)

And read the statistics above. With so much more attention, how can you say TV/Movies/Anime deserves to be in Life more than CT.

[nforcer06164]

Why is there such a war about moving the whole thing? Personally, I'm for moving the TWG forum back up by CT, in which it USED TO BE. What's the big deal, seriously? I really don't mind if it stays down where it is, but it doesn't really have much bearing on the game itself.

The Anime forum is a sub-catergory of life. Now, when I first saw that, I thought, "Why the hell is it there?" LD is the one who is making the biggest deal out TWG's position, correct? Because the category is labeled LIFE, and TWG doesn't belong there? So, what about Anime? Chit-Chat and CT are reasonable because they are really part of our everyday lives, but Anime normally isn't. Well, at least to me ^_^;;;

My thoughts on this in a nutshell are... either move the TWG forum up, or move the Anime forum out of LIFE. If anyone wants to be such a tightwad about the titles, put into perspective what else doesn't belong as well.

[Tps222]

I never said that it deseverved to be in it more, I just said that it is part of most people's lives, so it should be up there, and from what I have read, there are a lot of people who obsess their lives over anime.

[lightdarkness]

Stop putting the "anime" forum by itself. It's TV, Movies, AND Anime.

There really doesn't need to be any more discussion, because Synth will have the final say.

[Afrobean]

Ok, I'm sorry to just be posting now but here's my opinion on the subject:

TV/Movies/Anime is not even close to being a major part of life for many users. I think that forum is best suited for the Arts category.

That said, I want to mention that the only people this affects are the people that are signed up for the forum. If they are signed up, I'd say it's likely that TWG is a major part of their life.

Ok, that said, I'm going to side with LD on this one anyway. Sure, it's a bitch to scroll down to the bottom near the postwhore forums for the highest level thinking forum with constant posting, but TWG forum does belong with the Games Forum and that's where it was. Plus, LD's right; Synth will side with him, so it's pointless to even fight over this.

Also I had an idea about making more people interested in TWG. Don't make it invisible to nonsubscribers, just make it so they can only post if they're in the usergroup.

PS These forums are not a democracy, so it doesn't matter what the popular opinion is.

[lightdarkness]

Also I had an idea about making more people interested in TWG. Don't make it invisible to nonsubscribers, just make it so they can only post if they're in the usergroup.

PS These forums are not a democracy, so it doesn't matter what the popular opinion is.

You are right, however we try to suit the users.

I thought of a good comprimise, which was imediatly shot down. Make it visible just on the index to all users, and put it under the "Gaming" category. It's further up, and will get more exposure.

[evilbutterfly]

I'd rather have it down in Other than as this terrible-looking sub category, but I'd rather just have it given its own category so it's at the top but not so weird looking. Geez guys, why are you even fighting!?

[blahblah18]

Oh my god... you guys are all ****TARDS... I wonder if that will be filtered or not... anyways, I saw the first couple pages of this last night, and really thoguht I dreamt it or something while drunk when I woke up this morning.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life. It really doesn't matter in the slightest, and if you can all go shake hands and get off your high horses, that would be just great.
STOP ARGUING MERELY FOR THE SAKE OF TRYING TO WIN AN ARGUMENT.

[chardish]

IF WE CAN'T BE MATURE ABOUT THIS I ****ING QUIT TWG FOREVER

I expect more out of EVERYONE on this forum than this. Blah is right, at this point everyone is trying to win an argument for the sake of winning an argument.

I want the forums at the top too but this is NOT worth tearing each other to ****ing pieces over.

Locked for the day. Everyone cool down, and decide what's really important.

[chardish]

Good afternoon.

I have reopened this topic because I believe that there can be some sort of sane discourse on this debate, which has not reached a happy conclusion for everyone. The important thing is that in our statements, we very tactfully and carefully present ourselves, taking pain not to offend anyone.


On FFR, forums are not classified under a rigid system, but under a loose system based primarily on the popularity, relevance, and worthwhileness of of the forums themselves. If a forum fails to satisfy both these requirements, it is kept near the bottom. For example, the Garbage Bin is popular but not very worthwhile or relevant, so it is kept near the bottom. Chit Chat is popular, worthwhile, and relevant, so it enjoys its proud status as the first forum on the list. Some of the intermediary forums fail the qualifications: the Bemani forums are worthwhile and relevant but not popular. The Noob Forum is popular and relevant but not very worthwhile. In addition, the category system is lax at best – why, for example, is “Game Threads” not under “Gaming?” The answer is simple – a less popular, worthwhile, and relevant forum does not deserve to be closer to the top, regardless of where it is most appropriate.

Now then, in making any sort of decision on the forums, we must decide upon what is in the best interests of the forum users. However, as the forum is invisible to all but the members of the TWG Usergroup, we can safely say that the only people whose interests are at heart are the 57 people on the TWG Players group.

Why might we move the TWG forum closer to the top? Since this decision does not involve the rest of the forums, it is critical that we only heed the rationale behind why the TWG players would want it moved up – it is popular, relevant, and worthwhile among TWG players. There has been a decline in interest in TWG because it is more difficult to see when the posts has been updated. Opponents will claim that it does not take an effort to scroll down; however, there has been a noticeable corrolation between the lower positioning of the TWG forum and the lower participation in games. Clearly, for many people, it is a hassle that this forum is kept at the bottom of the screen. I love this game, and I want to see it thrive and prosper amongst its loyal fans.

Among the TWG players, the TWG forum is popular (thousand and thousands of posts and views), worthwhile (everyone in the group enjoys playing the game) and relevant (TWG is a major part of the forums for every player.) So why not bring it closer to the top, where it is most certainly merited?

TWG needs to be near the top for TWG players for the same reason that the Staff forum is and needs to be near the top for staff members – it's something that members of those groups want to check for active posts nearly every time they visit the forums. If anyone in the group does not want the forum near the top, they can leave and rid themselves of the inconvenice.

One concern is that non-TWG players who are staff members will not want to be bothered with viewing the forum. A possible fix is to remove “staff” as moderators of the forum, and instead manually appoint myself, Tasselfoot, and LD to be the moderators. This might make it invisible to non-administrators. In this case, the only non-players who will see the forum are Soccr, Kwik, 87x, Synth, and Spook. However, I don't see the presence of this forum near the top as a major problem for those people to deal with – Kwik is never on, Synth and Spook are rarely on, and I don't see this as a terrible inconvenience for the other two - at least, not one that requires inconveniencing 57 other people. Staffers were appointed to serve the users and make decisions in the users' best interests, not to insist that the forums be most convenient for them. I would certainly like it if the forums I never visit were near the bottom so I didn't have to see them – but I'm not going to use my power as staff to attempt to impose that vision on everyone else, even if it is a small sect of users who would be affected by it.

In sight of the evidence, I don't see any truly compelling arguments that would justify leaving the forum where it is. I hope that we can have a sane, rational, even-tempered discussion about where the forum should go. I don't see anywhere but near the top where it would be best.

[lightdarkness]

*relocked* lol

I spoke with Synth, and he doesn't mind it. So there is no use discussing it further.

Also, there will be more :-P So stay tuned :-D