New Difficulty System Name Suggestions

[nois-or-e]

Hi guys!

Now, the new difficulty system has been a work in progress in the background and should be in place as early as mid next week! One of the less important challenges has been creating titles for each difficulty while maintaining unique acronyms for each.

What I would like to do is take suggestions from players regarding the final names of these difficulties. One in particular that has been deemed 'dumb' is the FSO title. Keeping in line with the For ____ Only scheme of things has been a long term tradition for FFR, but other suggestions would be great too. (I know some of the Team Indeed guys seem to like 'Brutal' as a fitting title). ??? will remain as the difficulty name for 20's as vRofl is the only song that falls into that category.

This is the current name list that is up for voting/changes.

---------------------------------------

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Novice
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???


01- Easiest/For Beginners
02- For Beginners/Very Easy
03- Very Easy/Easy
04- Easy/Standard
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Tricky/Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging (approx. 46-50 in the 1-99 scale)
12- Challenging
13- Challening / lowest few VC
14- VC
15- high VC / lowest few FMO's
16- mid - high FMO
17- high FMO / low FGO
18- mid - high FGO
19- FSO
20- vrofl

---------------------------------------

A bit of background information. The new system is a 20 difficulty system with a 1-99 rating of each file that will set it in an order within its difficulty. (ex. 11s in the new system will be the 46-50 range)
The current 1-8's will be the new 1-10's. With the current 9+ difficulties filling the new 11+ area. Keeping in mind that the current ratio of 9:10:11:12's is 3:3:2:1, and that there will be better division of the upper tier files, so we're looking at high VCs and the lowest FMOs in the current system sitting in the FEO (difficulty 15) range, and the high FMOs and lowest FGOs sitting in the new FGO (difficulty 17) range.

In this thread, I'd appreciate if you'd make your suggestions in the form of re-posting the entire 1-20 list in the same colour scheme with changes you've made in italics.

Thanks in advance guys! We're hoping that this will assist us in making a system that will be essentially moderated by the players with transparency and public opinion taken into account every step of the way.

~Jae

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Get rid of "For stepman only" please it sounds utterly retarded.

Also difficulty 20 should be left as simply "20"

It's so hard it gets no real name

01- Beginners
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Simple
05- Light
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Demanding
12- Heavy
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Oni
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Ridiculous
19- Brutal
20- Legendary

NOW TO EDIT THE LAST ONE. SO I CAN RENAME ALL 20.

[Xayphon]

FSO suggestions:

For Nerds Only
For Elites Only
For Legends Only (credits to Ben)


20 suggestion:

R.I.P.

[Evascythe]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

I like how the new system looks. No longer will Eclipse be considered the same difficulty as Destiny v1, Oasis etc. or Mute City Remix and Szamar Madar being the same difficulty as Lawn Wake IV.

[BahamutZER0]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???Seconded on having D/VD/C/VC like that, think it sounds a lot better. May just be used to the old naming scheme.

[reuben_tate]

I like Middie's suggestions for lower level files, they seem a bit more intuitive. My thoughts for the upper-level files:
18 - For Legends Only
19 - For Ridiculousness Only
20 - For Death Only


Seconded on having D/VD/C/VC like that, think it sounds a lot better. May just be used to the old naming scheme.

Connotation wise, I believe there is more of a difference between Challenging and Demanding, than there is Challenging and Difficult. When one thinks of something as challenging, they think of it as somewhat difficult. However, when one thinks of the word demanding, it's more associated with a task being overwhelming or exhausting, something at a much higher level than simply "challenging."

[nois-or-e]

Thanks for some speedy responses guys!! Personally I don't like the FSO title as it stands, but I was always intending on getting community input on the names before anything was put into place (as these require engine changes). Our 2 difficulty consultants & all 3 of us game managers are against the current FSO title too, so we're hoping for some good suggestions here!

Just one thing please, as I have no idea how many responses we'll get regarding this thread.

In this thread, I'd appreciate if you'd make your suggestions in the form of re-posting the entire 1-20 list in the same colour scheme with changes you've made in italics.

[Helixia]

FSO suggestions:

For Nerds Only
For Elites Only
For Legends Only (credits to Ben)


20 suggestion:

R.I.P.

I like that difficult names :).

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Just one thing please, as I have no idea how many responses we'll get regarding this thread.

Finnnnnnnnnnne.

I fixed my post.

[icontrolyourworld]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Simple
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Painful
14- Very Painful
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18-Legendary
19- It's like pushing a car up a mountain with needles in your shoes and 3 guys pushing the car down the hill in 100 degree weather while a tiger is chasing you.
20- ???

Though I'm serious about 6, 13, 14, and 18 xD

[BahamutZER0]

Eh, change my mind on what I said earlier. Here's what I came up with:

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Simple
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Heavy
12- Challenging
13- Very Challenging
14- Demanding
15- Very Demanding
16- Exacting
17- Punishing
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- Impossible

Not sure about 20.
Would also like to see beginner replaced since I like the difficulties better without having to use "beginner/expert/master" etc. Think it's more consistent that way, can't think of one more easy name though.

[XxMidigamixX]

here's my suggestion:

01- Trivial
02- Easy Modo
03- Training
04- Simple
05- Easy
06- Moderate*
07- Standard*
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Almost there...
15- Masters
16- Oni
17- Brutal
18- Lunatic
19- Hard Pain
20- [Edit]

---------------------------------------

feeling iffy about moderate/standard since they technically mean the same but I don't have a clue what to name them for now @.@

[EzExZeRo7497]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Very Simple
06- Simple
07- Standard
08- Moderate
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts Only
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Elites Only
19- For Legends Only
20- For Brutes Only

Kinda had no idea for 9-10 but eh.

[yo man im awesome]

20. Ridiculous

[bob bob]

20-why try?

[MarioNintendo]

I can only think of one for #20:

INSANODESTRUCTOR

[gold stinger]

How about these?

01- Beginner
02- Easy
03- Mediocre
04- Fair
05- Adequate
06- Medium
07- Tricky
08-Hard
09- Difficult
10- Intense
---
11- Challenging
12- Advanced
13- Extreme
14- Painful
15-Vicious
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18-Outrageous
19- Ridiculous
20- Ludicrous

Exclusively for Songs Like vROFL- Impossible
Unless, you plan putting vROFL under Ludicrous.

I took out all the words that contained "Very" in them, and replaced them with their own unique difficulty, that also represents closely to their own separate difficulty level based on the other difficulties around it. Sorry for completely re-doing it, looks better without "Very" all the time in my opinion.

- The Demanding difficulties didn't really sink in with me, it just looked like filler, so I swapped them out with something that would be a little more descriptive of what to find in those certain songs.

- I don't think we need to make another "For ______ Only" Bracket because It's jam-packed as it is trying to put in Stepman Only right now. Also, FEO doesn't sound all that great when you say it.

- The only thing I haven't changed is the For Masters Only and For Gurus Only titles for token and abbreviation purposes. Considering that you planned on removing the FSO abbreviation, and For Stepmen Only, I changed it to something a little more menacing.

- I made a difficulty for vROFL itself because it is a dump file, and has no proper place among other legit FFR files. Also, if any other dump files come into the game, this would be a valuable place to put them, along with event files that were meant to only be put into the game for a couple of days, making it easier for players to find said event files, and dump files.

-EDIT- Forgot to point out that I left challenging where it was as a reminder about when you are transitioning between difficulties 1-10, and 11-20.

[popsicle_3000]

A few comments:
-I dont like Oni as a term. most people would have no idea what that means (including me)...
-I've always been puzzled by having easiest AND beginner as different difficulties. to me they mean the same thing... thanks Middie for your suggestion.
-I like for legends only. makes FLO. not the greatest acronym, but better than FSO looks anyways.
-bahamuts suggestion "Impossible" i find fitting. nothing can be harder than the impossible ;) I know... bit sappy
-I'm against flashy lingo. I recon difficulty names is something that should be pretty low key.
-I guess i'm partial to "Very" since they've been in the game already...

I've combined my favorites. I'm not a huge fan of my 9 & 10 suggestion, but i'm not entirely sure what else would be good...

01- Beginner
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08-Very Tricky
09- Heavy?
10- Very Heavy?
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18-For Legends only
19- Ridiculous
20- Impossible

[icontrolyourworld]

gold stingers list rules xD

[nois-or-e]

Finnnnnnnnnnne.

I fixed my post.

Thanks mate ;D

Also guys, try to remember that we are aiming for unique acronyms across the board. Undoubtedly the biggest pain in thinking up new titles. With a need for more hard titles I changed D/VD from difficult to demanding as it fit better in the harder area of the difficulty scale. But as with all of these suggested titles, are up for votes to change ;D

---

Edit:
Exclusively for Songs Like vROFL- Impossible
Unless, you plan putting vROFL under Ludicrous.


The only song in the 20 difficulty range is vRofl, hence it was put in the OP as ???, much as it appears in the engine atm as a 14~

That being said, nice usage of terms Stinger, my only issue with some of the titles is repetitive acronyms which would make referencing files a little tricky over time. (Though I am confident people would be able to adjust)

---

Double Edit: I am aware that in saying we are after unique acronyms that I have used Easiest and Easy in theOP list, lol

[popsicle_3000]

unique? :( i like the very difficult and challenging how they are. oh well!

[Frank Munoz]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Basic
06- Mediocre
07- Average
08- Intermediate
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Adept
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- Oni/Brutal
19- What The FFR[WTFFR]
20- ???

lolf, how come everyone keeps trying to name 20 when it states that it's not gonna change? fss. Anyways,
I'm actually not sure where to place "Adept". it kinda seems like it goes anywhere from 11-15. And the color scheme makes it look all weird.

Also, the word "Challenging" looks funny now. just .. look at it.

ps.thistookmelikeanhourtomake

[gold stinger]

nice usage of terms Stinger, my only issue with some of the titles is repetitive acronyms which would make referencing files a little tricky over time. (Though I am confident people would be able to adjust)

Take it as you will, I figured that most of the opinions given would all be used together equally for creating the new system. Hopefully, some of my acronyms will be taken into consideration when creating the final list of difficulties for the new difficulty system. None of the acronyms I've given have a "Very" at the beginning, so it's easy enough to slap one on if it's needed.

People will need to adjust to the new system anyways since it's going from a 1-13 scale to a 1-19 scale. (Excluding vROFL,) I'm certain that people will find it a bit difficult to navigate the songs at first, thinking that an 11-difficulty is an FMO when it actually is a high-end Challenging song, which in fact brings up a question to ask.

Have you given any thought on what difficulty the Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] token will be now in light of this new difficulty system? Will it still be under the For Masters Only difficulty and up (16+ difficulty) or will you be changing it based on the actual difficulty of the songs in each bracket and planned on moving it up or down from FMO? (Had to ask, getting close to the FMO AAA.)

[SKG_Scintill]

20 - Silly

or

20 - Rambunctious

[popsicle_3000]

lolf, how come everyone keeps trying to name 20 when it states that it's not gonna change? fss.

in light of that:
01- Beginner
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08-Very Tricky
09- Heavy?
10- Very Heavy?
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18-For Legends only
19- Impossible
20- ???

[mrpreggers]

I like leaving level 20 as ??? Like it's so hard you can't think of anything to call it

[dore]

---------------------------------------

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Intense
16- For Experts only
17- For Masters only
18-For Gurus nly
19- Ridiculous
20- Painful

---------------------------------------

[Silvuh]

So this is what I've finally come up with after over four hours of deliberation.

---------------------------------------

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic/Simple
04- Fair
05- Lenient
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
15- Master
16- Guru
17- Relentless
18- Cruel
19- Berserk
20- __

---------------------------------------


May as well keep "Easiest" as the first difficulty ... Used "Novice" instead of "Beginner" to have fewer Bs. I do think "Basic" sounds better than "Simple", but "Simple" would be the only S. Even though "Easiest" sounds out of place, I couldn't think of another good word to fit in here. "Beginner" and "Novice" or "Simple" and "Basic" would have to be ranked arbitrarily to use both.

I took gold stinger's suggestion of "Fair" to use instead of "Easy". But adjectives like "Adequate" and "Mediocre" describe a player's ability to play a file (or the quality of the file), not the difficulty itself.

I think "Lenient" to "Moderate" to "Tricky" is a nice gradient. Don't want to have too many words with a very strong "Easy" connotation which might discourage new players if they're stuck on "Easy" difficulties for too long.
.
I kept "Difficult" and "Challenging" around the same areas they are now. I like the balance of having two sets of "X" and "Very X" on each side of the median. The good thing about "Very" is that it makes the steps much more clear. I don't think having, say, "advanced" be two steps above "intense" is as intuitive.

"Master" and "Guru" are just kind of there. I didn't want another "X" and "Very X" set, but couldn't think of anything else. Because "Novice" is at the top, I left just the singular nouns "Master" and "Guru" there for consistency.

And then at the bottom are the crazy words. For me, files of that difficulty are just ... well, crazy. My fingers can't keep up. That stuff is cruel to my fingers, which go berserk on the keyboard. I believe adjectives like these would be appropriate.

Finally, I'd say leaving difficulty 20 blank would be better than sticking question marks in there.


Another note:
"Light", "Standard", "Heavy", and "Oni" should be avoided because they're used as song title tags that cover ranges of difficulties in relation to other files of only that music, not every file in the game.
sunless daybreak [heavy] 8
sunless daybreak [standard] 6
passage d [heavy] 11
passage d [light] 4
piano etude (demon fire) [oni] 12
piano etude (demon fire) [heavy] 11
ding dong song [standard] 8
ding dong song [light] 5
happy happy shining star!! [light] 5
happy happy shining star!! [heavy] 10
field of snow [light] 4
field of snow [standard] 7
switchback [heavy] 9
switchback [light] 3
red dress [light] 2
red dress [heavy] 7
driveway [light] 2
driveway [standard] 6
driveway [heavy] 8
otaku speedvibe [oni] 11
otaku speedvibe [heavy] 10
roses and butterflies [standard] 5
roses and butterflies [heavy] 7

ochitsukeruwakenaiwayo [standard] 8
turn soonest to the sea [oni] 10
shut up and let me go [heavy] 6
two sisters [heavy] 7
bloodmeat [heavy] 11
here's to life [oni] 9
work [heavy] 7
blooddrunk [heavy] 11
doomsayer [heavy] 10
beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder [heavy] 9
until you leave [heavy] 6
build god, then we'll talk [heavy] 7
between the sheets [heavy] 5
allison [heavy] 4
monster mash [heavy] 7
let it snow, let it snow, let it snow [heavy] 3
the divine suicide of K [heavy] 11
the epidemic of unexpected relapses [hard] 10 (Supposed to be [Heavy]?)
vi sitter i ventrilo och spelar dota [heavy] 7
eternal nightmare [heavy] 7
flying high [heavy] 10
lemonade [heavy] 7
american in amsterdam [heavy] 6
faces [heavy] 9
my darkest hour [heavy] 6
snake devil [heavy] 4
break out! break out! [heavy] 8
brooks was here [heavy] 8
tom savini vs greg nicotero [heavy] 4
your grace [heavy] 7
the moment [heavy] 6
dont breathe a word [heavy] 7 (Is the missing apostrophe on purpose?)
the space between [heavy] 8
Same reason why I'm not using "Easy" or "Hard". Those terms are even stretchier. Look at the ranges of difficulties that were allowed in the Easy and Hard Batches.

[nois-or-e]

Have you given any thought on what difficulty the Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] token will be now in light of this new difficulty system? Will it still be under the For Masters Only difficulty and up (16+ difficulty) or will you be changing it based on the actual difficulty of the songs in each bracket and planned on moving it up or down from FMO? (Had to ask, getting close to the FMO AAA.)


I am glad someone asked about this, with the heavy/oni 'get' files needing a much overdue overhaul (which I was going to put forward just before I took on co-ordinating this project), I figured that once this system is finally in place, we'll be able to set each one to a range of difficulties in the 1-99 rankings.
(ex. Difficulty 70-75 AAA will award [oni])

Things like this of course will be taken into consideration once it is all finalised. I know for one there is discussions happening about the way those two particular tokens are coded. So all I can say is ~stay tuned~ and as soon as I know what direction we are taking regarding those token 'gets', you guys will be well informed via the front page ;D

[EzExZeRo7497]

Post from Dossballs
Can you go into that difficulty thread and post this
01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic
04- Easy
05- Fair
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
----------------------
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Very Demanding
15- For Experts Only
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Superiors Only
19- For Champions Only
20- Unreasonable (or For Deities Only or For Lunatics Only etc)

Other suggestions for "For ___ Only" titles could be For Pros Only, For Wizards Only, For Bosses Only (lol), For Legends Only, For Elites Only, and For Aces Only.

[UserNameGoesHere]

01- Trivial
02- Starter
03- Easier
04- Easy
05- Warmup
06- Intermediate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Trickier
10- Respectable
---
11- Hard
12- Harder
13- Crazy
14- Insane
15- Pro
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Robot
19- Cyborg
20- Wall

[iironiic]

I don't like difficulty ratings like "For Masters Only" or "For Gurus Only." It just makes the files seem designated to specific types of people haha.

[i love you]

I have to agree with iironiic about the "For w/e Only" difficulties because it just sounds dumb and confusing. I think those type of names should be avoided at all times for this new difficulty system. From look at this thread so far, I have to agree with the names that Silvuh suggested from 1-16 and for 20. It definitely looks like something I could remember easily and each of those names actually makes more sense then the rest of the lists that I have seen on this thread. I feel that his 17-19 could be renamed to something better or more "FFRish" if you know what I mean.

[subin]

I took a different approach to the rating-scale. There are no similar couplets in this list (eg. Master, Grandmaster).

I spent a long time on this. Hope you guys like it :)

01- Beginner
02- Recruit
03- Amateur
04- Novice
05- Trainee
06- Apprentice
07- Junior
08-Senior
09- Expert
10- Professional
---
11- Champion
12- Elite
13- Prodigy
14- Veteran
15-Master
16- Guru
17- Savant
18-Legend
19- Divine
20- For Virgins Only (I'm kidding, a "???" would be appropriate).

I don't like difficulty ratings like "For Masters Only" or "For Gurus Only." It just makes the files seem designated to specific types of people haha.

I agree. This is why there is no F_O trademark in my list.

[i love you]

That is definitely one hell of an approach subin hehe. I actually have to agree with your 18 and 19 names. Sounds really creative :o

[emulord]

Heres my suggestion. Keeps some of the names closer to original names for ~Legacy~ reasons
Maybe reorder Heavy to after Very difficult, I'm not sure

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Easy
04- Basic
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Brutal
19- Very Brutal
20- (blank)

[Xayphon]

subin's list reminds me a lot of a leveling system of a game like Battlefield (which is a good thing xd)

kinda like a motivation to reach one level higher and keep going

[i love you]

Combining Silvuh/subin and one of the names from indeed engine. I will have to go with this:

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic/Simple
04- Fair
05- Lenient
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
15- Master
16- Guru
17- Brutal
18- Legend
19- Divine
20- __

Obviously, this is only my opinion.

EDIT: Well...I am still a bit meh about 17 but I will use Brutal as a placement

[Hateandhatred]

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic
04- Fair
05- Lenient
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
15- Master
16- Guru
17- Brutal
18- Painful
19- Stepman
20- __

[nois-or-e]

Awesome ideas going around guys, very stoked to see so many people getting on-board to help make this a community based decision. A lot of the OP names were selected to maintain the 'harder' sounding difficulties in the upper half. Have noticed some distaste to the 'Demanding' and 'Very Demanding' titles. Though 'Demanding' has a slightly more difficult sound to it than 'Challenging', I am wondering if it is the unfamiliarity of the name that is causing this. Some great stuff suggested already in any case ;D

Feel free to discuss in-depth any suggestions, and you aren't limited to one post or suggestion. (ex. If you see a list that has some good ideas and want to combine some of it with your own to update your suggestion.)

[deadpony]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Very Demanding
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- For Stepmen only
19- Ridiculous
20- Dossar only!

lol

[Helixia]

01- Beginner
02- Recruit
03- Amateur
04- Novice
05- Trainee
06- Apprentice
07- Junior
08-Senior
09- Expert
10- Professional
---
11- Champion
12- Elite
13- Prodigy
14- Veteran
15-Master
16- Guru
17- Savant
18-Legend
19- Divine
20- For Virgins Only (I'm kidding, a "???" would be appropriate).


I like the diificult names :).

[iironiic]

If I see a "Dossar Only" difficulty rating in the engine, I will quit FFR.

[RadiantVibe]

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic
04- Fair
05- Lenient
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Hard
09- Difficult
10- Advanced
---
11- Demanding
12- Challenging
13- Intense
14- Expert
15- Onerous
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Divine
20- ???

My suggestions. I made every difficulty just one word to make it more diverse.

[j-rodd123]

My only opinion: plz don't use for stepman only or demandin/very demanding, they sound stupid lol

[nois-or-e]

If I see a "Dossar Only" difficulty rating in the engine, I will quit FFR.

Don't worry wilson. You most certainly won't see something like that being accepted as a difficulty term.


15- Onerous

Very nice! Not a word you see thrown around very often these days.


My only opinion: plz don't use for stepman only...

I would much prefer that it wasn't used, it was pretty much a placeholder for the existing difficulty as 19's in this system will encompass the current 13s and a few of the very very high 12's. No-one involved in the creation of this new system is a fan of it, and with as many awesome suggestions that I am seeing here, it will most certainly be replaced with something more adequate~

[deadpony]

I hope people realise dossar only was a joke XD

[iironiic]

I hope people realise dossar only was a joke XD

I know it is xD. I'm just only saying :3

[CammyGoesRawr]

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Apprentice
04- Adept
05- Standard
06- Intermediate
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky / Heavy (one of the two)
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Advanced
13- Profesional
14- Expert
15- Master
16- Oni
17- Guru
18- Conqueror
19- Deity / Overlord (one of the two)
20- ???

[alloyus]

HAS BEEN EDITED:

Definitely liked Evascythe's better

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

[i love you]

So much to choose from at this point ;__;

[leonid]

20- **\o/**

or

20- (´･ω･`)

[i love you]

I guess it would be best to see which difficulty names are being brought up the most and focus more on those. Although, what you guys should have done first was determine if majority of the community would prefer not having certain names as difficulties (Example: "Very ____" names or "For ____ Only" names etc). It is far more effective to take things step by step by first seeing what the community wants/does not want before having them actually start naming difficulty names. That way the community would have more of an idea of what majority of people agreed/disagreed to and they will come up with better difficulty names based on what the community wanted.

At least...that is what I would have done anyway but carry on hehe

PS: I have not been typing long sentences in english for a while so I apologise in advance if I did not make any sense.

[deadpony]

ok here is a real attempt to change and add some ideas, for some reason it wont copy color. i got ride of some and moved a lot down and also added two of my own. sorry if somebody else already said insane but im pretty sure my 19 is unique lol.

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Heavy
10- Challenging
---
11- Very Challenging
12- Demanding
13- Very Demanding
14- For Experts only
15- For Masters only
16- For Gurus only
17- Ridiculous
18- Insane*
19- FFR Junkies only *
20- ???

[i will pwn u]

I kinda agree with you rebound because i am not real keen on having very or F _ O names in the game. To me they just sound so unoriginal when there is plenty of other words that can be used as we have seen. I dont particularly have a list to submit but i think what subin wrote about the different levels kinda correlating to ranks was interesting and gives a sense of accomplishment as you get better. I also agree with silvuh on the higher end ones because of the views he stated. And lastly i agree with not adding anything that has to do with standard/heavy/oni because like someone else said the ranges vary so much. my 2 ¢

[Coolboyrulez0]

I would say I'm one of the few who is indifferent as long is the numeric rating is intact, the naming scheme can be whatever.

Glad to finally see the Difficulty Reform happening :')

[qqwref]

I'm not gonna suggest a new list of names, and here's why.

For many years, people have talked about songs in terms of the old names - VD, C, VC, FMO, FGO, whatever. I think those old discussions should still make some sense with the new system. If the old names still apply to the new system, it will be easy for everyone to understand and we won't need tons of explanations about how to convert from an old VC into the new system.

So my suggestion is simple: figure out which new difficulties roughly correspond with the old ones, and then just bring the names over. It's fine if something like VC or FMO spans more than one difficulty number.

[psychoangel691]

So my suggestion is simple: figure out which new difficulties roughly correspond with the old ones, and then just bring the names over. It's fine if something like VC or FMO spans more than one difficulty number.

I kinda was thinking the same thing as this.

[icontrolyourworld]

I'm not gonna suggest a new list of names, and here's why.

For many years, people have talked about songs in terms of the old names - VD, C, VC, FMO, FGO, whatever. I think those old discussions should still make some sense with the new system. If the old names still apply to the new system, it will be easy for everyone to understand and we won't need tons of explanations about how to convert from an old VC into the new system.

So my suggestion is simple: figure out which new difficulties roughly correspond with the old ones, and then just bring the names over. It's fine if something like VC or FMO spans more than one difficulty number.

you have all my yes xD

[iironiic]

So my suggestion is simple: figure out which new difficulties roughly correspond with the old ones, and then just bring the names over. It's fine if something like VC or FMO spans more than one difficulty number.

I agree with this. I do however request a name change for the "F_O" and "very" difficulties for reasons stated already.

[TK_unreal]

I took a different approach to the rating-scale. There are no similar couplets in this list (eg. Master, Grandmaster).

I spent a long time on this. Hope you guys like it :)

01- Beginner
02- Recruit
03- Amateur
04- Novice
05- Trainee
06- Apprentice
07- Junior
08-Senior
09- Expert
10- Professional
---
11- Champion
12- Elite
13- Prodigy
14- Veteran
15-Master
16- Guru
17- Savant
18-Legend
19- Divine
20- For Virgins Only (I'm kidding, a "???" would be appropriate).



I agree. This is why there is no F_O trademark in my list.

Out of the entire thread so far, i think these are some of the best choices (imo).

I also agree that the F_O system should be changed. Giving each difficulty a specific/unique name kind of gives meaning to where you stand in terms of your own level/skill, like what Xayphon said, the leveling up idea, it has an "accomplished" feeling to it. Creates more motivation so to speak.

[Zekramcross]

I took a different approach to the rating-scale. There are no similar couplets in this list (eg. Master, Grandmaster).

I spent a long time on this. Hope you guys like it :)

01- Beginner
02- Recruit
03- Amateur
04- Novice
05- Trainee
06- Apprentice
07- Junior
08-Senior
09- Expert
10- Professional
---
11- Champion
12- Elite
13- Prodigy
14- Veteran
15-Master
16- Guru
17- Savant
18-Legend
19- Divine
20- For Virgins Only (I'm kidding, a "???" would be appropriate).


I really like these. It does give a sense of accomplishment like TK said and it does give more motivation. I can see this one working.

[Riotpolice]

Subin, your list looks very professional, you got my +1. I enjoy how you created the almost "school system" type of levels through 1-10 also.

[iironiic]

If we were to adopt subin's list, the next question we need to look at is what files are considered "Legend, etc." Not only do we run into the problem of giving each file a numerical difficulty, but we need to make sure the names of those difficulties do indeed match up to the file's difficulty.

We could foolishly convert the 1-13 scale to the 1-20 scale where 1 --> 1 and 13 ---> 20 uniformly, but that would imply that a current 6 is considered "Professional/Champion". I'm sure most of you would disagree with that. What difficulty best matches the qualities of a "champion"? etc.

EDIT: I think qqwref's idea avoids all of this. But I really do like subin's adjective choices :((

[nois-or-e]

The current 1-8's will be the new 1-10's. With the current 9+ difficulties filling the new 11+ area. Keeping in mind that the current ratio of 9:10:11:12's is 3:3:2:1, and that there will be better division of the upper tier files, so we're looking at high VCs and the lowest FMOs in the current system sitting in the FEO (difficulty 15) range, and the high FMOs and lowest FGOs sitting in the new FGO (difficulty 17) range.

Sup Wilson~

[iironiic]

Sup Wilson~

Oh derp xd

[subin]

What difficulty best matches the qualities of a "champion"? etc.

In this sense, it is a different argument. What difficulty best matches the qualities of a "savant"? Autism perhaps? I'd like to think that people will be given an opportunity to appertain to a more separate category, and in turn allowing people's free creative engagement with the umbrella terms. It is a promotion of structural identity, with space for social engagement.

In other words, it is not impossible to change a couple of words to realistically qualify game-play qualities, but the list I proposed is essentially the underlying notion of social space, welcoming and identity that I had in mind.

[rushyrulz]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Standard
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Heavy
13- Very Challenging
14- For Experts Only
15- Oni
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Pros Only
19- For Grand-Masters Only
20- Ultimate
Thank you Puzzle Pirates for Grand-Master and Ultimate
Also requesting all the [heavy]s and [oni]s be taken off everything to be replaced by either nothing or v1, v2, etc. if there's multiple versions.

[psychoangel691]

Here's my issue with Subin's (no offense meant of course) Words like trainee and recruit and such to me would be good for ranks for a person, but to me sounds silly for song difficulties.

[25thhour]

I like the For w/e only, just because they are cool acronyms. :P

[megamon88]

Here's my issue with Subin's (no offense meant of course) Words like trainee and recruit and such to me would be good for ranks for a person, but to me sounds silly for song difficulties.

Same here. They would be great for some sort of ranking system, but I don't see them as song difficulties.

To be honest though, I'm indifferent to what the names are. As long as the number rankings are good then I'm fine.

[subin]

...but to me sounds silly for song difficulties.

They would be great for some sort of ranking system, but I don't see them as song difficulties.

The point of it is not to directly imply a song's "difficulty", rather, who are supposed to play them. It is not a communication that is felt from the song to the player (ie. the song is difficult, so how well will I play), rather it is from the player to the song (I am so-and-so, therefore will I be able to do this?) that I find most important. In my opinion, this is a much better gaming experience as it gives a sense of personal space. This bit is left to the individual creative freedom of the player, whether you're really a prodigy in real life, or not.

As I said earlier, one or few words can change (easy to do), however it is the justification of this approach that I am doing my best to allow the FFR community to understand. I feel that the implications of direct and indirect communications are very important in one's gaming experience on FFR.

[25thhour]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Standard
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Heavy
13- Very Challenging
14- For Experts Only
15- Oni
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Pros Only
19- For Grand-Masters Only
20- Ultimate
Thank you Puzzle Pirates for Grand-Master and Ultimate
Also requesting all the [heavy]s and [oni]s be taken off everything to be replaced by either nothing or v1, v2, etc. if there's multiple versions.

+33

[tofurox]

01- Recruit
02- Private
03- Corporal
04- Sergeant
05- Warrant Officer
06- Captain
07- Major
08-Lt. Colonel
09- Commander
10- Brigadier
---
11- General
12- Hero
13- Legend
14- Mythic
15-Noble
16- Eclipse
17- Nova
18-Forerunner
19- Reclaimer
20- Inheritor

Ohwait.... I feel like I've seen these before.

[who_cares973]

01- training
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- tricky
06- very tricky
07- difficult
08- very difficult
09- challenging
10- very challenging
---
11- proficient
12- experienced
13- adept
14- veteran
15- expert
16- elite
17- guru
18- master
19- grand master
20- demigod

Alternatively just have tiers. Tier20 being the easiest and tier1 being the hardest

[Mike Weedmark]

Lists so far are descriptive and appropriate, but horribly boring. I want to see a list that starts at 01-Potato and ends at 20-Michael J. Fox. Someone, please.

[Findarian]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Standard
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Heavy
13- Very Challenging
14- For Experts Only
15- Oni
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- Brutal
19- Very Brutal
20- For Grand-Masters Only


Edited I think it would be better

[who_cares973]

Lists so far are descriptive and appropriate, but horribly boring. I want to see a list that starts at 01-Potato and ends at 20-Michael J. Fox. Someone, please.

I will...do this...

[Arbliterator]

01- Recruit
02- Private
03- Corporal
04- Sergeant
05- Warrant Officer
06- Captain
07- Major
08-Lt. Colonel
09- Commander
10- Brigadier
---
11- General
12- Hero
13- Legend
14- Mythic
15-Noble
16- Eclipse
17- Nova
18-Forerunner
19- Reclaimer
20- Inheritor

Ohwait.... I feel like I've seen these before.

^THIS for sure haha.
I agree with Find's list, except I think 20 should just be ridiculous, also #8 and #9 should be switched.

[deadpony]

I like the idea of getting rid of "for only" but we gotta keep master and guru and I like grandmaster also.

[tofurox]

Someone should come up with a space themed level ranking system. Difficulties like supernova, quasar, black hole, white hole.

[BahamutZER0]

Here's my issue with Subin's (no offense meant of course) Words like trainee and recruit and such to me would be good for ranks for a person, but to me sounds silly for song difficulties.Yeah, this is my thinking too. Also would rather we didn't have any "For X Only" difficulties if it can be avoided.

[igotrhythm]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Very Heavy
12- Challenging
13- Very Challenging
14- Demanding
15- Very Demanding
16- For Experts Only
17- For Masters Only
18- For Gurus Only
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

Putting the "Very Heavy" in at 11 allows every title to be bumped up a difficulty up to 18, in which case For Stepmen Only gets completely overwritten with otherwise minor modifications.

[PrawnSkunk]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Novice
04- Light
05- Apprentice
06- Standard
07- Moderate
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Adept
---
11- Heavy
12- Difficult
13- Very Difficult
14- Challenging
15- Very Challenging
16- For Experts Only
17- For Masters Only
18- For Gurus Only
19- Ridiculous/Insane
20- Impossible

[TC_mistrisofevl]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Standard
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Heavy
13- Very Challenging
14- For Experts Only
15- Oni
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Pros Only
19- For Grand-Masters Only
20- Ultimate
Thank you Puzzle Pirates for Grand-Master and Ultimate
Also requesting all the [heavy]s and [oni]s be taken off everything to be replaced by either nothing or v1, v2, etc. if there's multiple versions.

I wanted to just take all of PP's ranks and convert them. 9 ranks, 19 spots to fill, we could figure something out.

[SC_coolguy44]

Here are my suggestions. They're on the meh side of things.

01- Easiest
02- Rookie
03- Casual
04- Fair
05- Very Easy
06- Easy
07- Experienced
08- Tricky
09- Heavy
10- Challenging
---
11- Straining
12- Demanding
13- Very Demanding
14- Insane
15- Very Insane
16- Pro
17- Master
18- Guru
19- Prophecy
20- srs bzns

[~Zeta~]

01- Easiest
02- Rookie
03- Casual
04- Fair
05- Very Easy
06- Easy
07- Experienced
08- Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Oni
14- For Professionals Only
15- For Masters Only
16- For Adepts Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Legends Only
19- For Stepmen Only
20- [null]/Impossible/___/whatever the rest say.

Mostly sticking to the tradition of wording or around FMO and over. 20 I don't really mind what it becomes. Wouldn't seem right for the For ___ Only to disappear or get rid of Masters and gurus name/title.

[trolltimes2]

20- 0_o

[xDarkDayz]

1 - Baby Carrot
2 - Sweet Potato
3 - Turnip
4 - Sprout
5 - Broccoli
6 - Pumpkin
7 - Nutri-Grain Bar
8 - Cheerios
9 - Cinnamon
10 - Activia

---

11 - Twix
12 - Crab
13 - Bacon
14 - Sweet Pancakes
15 - Fudge
16 - McDonald's Fries
17 - KFC Popcorn Chicken
18 - Caviar
19 - Sirloin Steak
20 - Lobster

(Insert Reoccurring 9 Here) - Dossar's Warm Up

[T-Force]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Extreme
19- Ridiculous
20- Legendary

Not much I changed around. But I'm with most people here in keeping Difficult/Very Difficult. As much as Demanding/Very Demanding makes sense, there's a sense of tradition with this. I think that's what most people are comfortable with in terms of memory and familiarity and I don't think that's something that should change.

[rebelrunner26]

Thank goodness this is finally happening...I've been baffled by some of the overlap in the upper-tier songs as of late (some VC's being harder than some easy FMO's, etc.). I think this is a brilliant idea regardless of how the names turn out.

I do think that if some type of rank-sounding system is used (or even if it's not), you could incorporate those ranks into profiles somehow based on one's highest AAA, 10 FC's, or however else you wanted to justify it.

So if somebody were to AAA or obtain 10 FC's on FEO (or Savant), they could be awarded the title "Expert" (or "Savant"), and so forth.

Edit: I highly approve of Subin's rank names for this purpose.

[top]

when giving difficulty names, i think it would be wise to remember that you're describing the difficulty of the song. words like, "recruit" and "captain" and such just don't make sense when saying, "Fuutsu no Uta is Captain."

[Guest15937]

20=For Dossar Only

I'd personally put Heavy between VD and C, but that may be just me.

Also I'd swap Extreme and Ridiculous.

[who_cares973]

Demanding sounds so stupid and very demanding even more so

[igotrhythm]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- Extreme
19- Ridiculous
20- Legendary

Not much I changed around. But I'm with most people here in keeping Difficult/Very Difficult. As much as Demanding/Very Demanding makes sense, there's a sense of tradition with this. I think that's what most people are comfortable with in terms of memory and familiarity and I don't think that's something that should change.

This is another system I could get behind. Minimal amount of new terminology, gets rid of the FSO label, not too many changes to the OP's proposed nomenclature. As an Indeed member, though, I will have to insist that 18 be described by "Brutal" and "Extreme" describe 19, as that's literally the extreme of difficulty as far as serious files go.

Also +1 to whoever said that oni gets will soon be all songs from 70-75 inclusive. So much easier than referring to a more arbitrary list.

[popsicle_3000]

Here's my issue with Subin's (no offense meant of course) Words like trainee and recruit and such to me would be good for ranks for a person, but to me sounds silly for song difficulties.
when giving difficulty names, i think it would be wise to remember that you're describing the difficulty of the song. words like, "recruit" and "captain" and such just don't make sense when saying, "Fuutsu no Uta is Captain."

not a big fan of ranks as song difficulties.

I like the For w/e only, just because they are cool acronyms. :P

i like these as well

Probably thought of already, but what about doing a few votes once we have lots of suggestions?: one for using heavy/light/oni, another for using "very", one for using FxO, and a final one for the final list

[omgfail]

What about a bracket-type system? It would be easier for newer players to pick up, too.

1. Beginner 1
2. Beginner 2
3. Beginner 3

4. Light 1
5. Light 2
6. Light 3

7. Normal 1
8. Normal 2
9. Normal 3

10. Heavy 1
11. Heavy 2
12. Heavy 3

13. Challenge 1
14. Challenge 2
15. Challenge 3

16. Oni 1
17. Oni 2
18. Oni 3

19. Mega-Dump
20. Giga-Dump
----------------------
21. Tera-Dump
22. Peta-Dump
23. Exa-Dump
24. Zetta-Dump

[Evascythe]

Demanding sounds so stupid and very demanding even more so

Yup. I'm not a fan of them, either.

[nois-or-e]

Also +1 to whoever said that oni gets will soon be all songs from 70-75 inclusive. So much easier than referring to a more arbitrary list.

np~


...there's only so many words to think of for 20 levels lol

Indeed this was the hardest part in brainstorming for newer terminology while trying to keep the acronyms unique, haha.

[Coolboyrulez0]

20> ****: For Unbelievably Crazy Kids

ps: who_cares about names, numbers are the way to go.

[i will pwn u]

^ lol

[demonllama6124]

20 is so simple: For Chuck Norris Only ;)

[Jake Ferguson]

01- Beginner
02- Basic
03- Simple
04- Easy
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Hard
10- Difficult
---
11- Heavy
12- Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Formidable
15- Exhausting
16- Painful
17- Wicked
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ??? / Carpal Tunnel

[Izzy]

I'm really not a fan of the "for whatever only" naming. It sounds really lame and unprofessional.

[gabrieljd]

20 is so simple: For Chuck Norris Only ;)

Are you really making a Chuck Norris joke in 2012

[Creeper_4life]

1 - Noob
2 - Easy
3 - Easy-Normal
4 - Normal
5 - Moderate
6 - tricky
7 - Very tricky
8 - Moderately hard
9 - Hard
10 - Stormy
11 - Very stormy
12 - Extremely hard
13 - Carpal tunnel syndrome
14 - Madness
15 - Death to Fingers
16 - Cataclysmic
17 - Gods only
18 - Nope.avi
19 - beyond possibility
20 - Divide by 0 for difficulty

[trolltimes2]

keep 1-10 as they were
11-Wicked
12-Insane
13-Furious
14-Blistering
15-Apocalyptic
16-Meteoric
17-Crushing
18-Defenestrating
19-Hell
20-Über -my favorite, because it smiles at you as it sends you to your death

To noisore, a 11-20 with no letter used twice.

Why does know one seem to notice?

20 could really be anything.

[TheSaxRunner05]

---
[/I]
Double Edit: I am aware that in saying we are after unique acronyms that I have used Easiest and Easy in theOP list, lol

... But no one cares/debates those file difficulties, lol

For Legends Only or Legendary just has to be in the game. It would be ....

Wait for it ....

Wait for itttttttt...............


Legendary!!!

[Frank Munoz]

A bit of background information. The new system is a 20 difficulty system with a 1-99 rating of each file that will set it in an order within its difficulty. (ex. 11s in the new system will be the 46-50 range)
The current 1-8's will be the new 1-10's. With the current 9+ difficulties filling the new 11+ area. Keeping in mind that the current ratio of 9:10:11:12's is 3:3:2:1, and that there will be better division of the upper tier files, so we're looking at high VCs and the lowest FMOs in the current system sitting in the FEO (difficulty 15) range, and the high FMOs and lowest FGOs sitting in the new FGO (difficulty 17) range.
I think it would be helpful if you made just a small list of the songs that will be in some of the new difficulties so everyone can better understand how to name them. Just like... the highest and lowest songs. ex:
20: VROFL
19: Death Piano, Rave 7
18: Crowdpleaser, Time to Eye
17: Frictional Nevada, Club
etc~
I'm sure my list isn't accurate at all but, it would be very appreciable if someone -coughnoisorecough- could make one.

[nois-or-e]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???


- A lot of people are against the 'For _____ Only' titles as they seem a bit discriminative/uncouth, so this eliminates that.
- Also eliminates the 'Heavy' tag, as it seems a bit ambiguous in regards to the difficulties above it.
- A few haters on the 'Very' qualifier. To me it shows a gradual progression between the current difficulty and the one above it. As mentioned, coming up with 20 suitable descriptors without using words that have exactly the same meaning is harder than it looks.
- I am almost 100% certain that 20 will remain as ???, the only file in that difficulty is vRofl. And the ??? (as comically discussed with bmah moments ago) is a sort of throw-back to the old DDR charts where the bpm was a flashing/changing ??? to denote something crazy.

[megamon88]

I still don't think Light and Standard are good difficulties, simply because (as previously mentioned) there are songs with the [Light] and [Standard] tags. If we eventually get rid of them though and just make them v2 or something, then I'm fine with them as difficulties.

[i love you]

01- Noob
02- Tard
03- Nig
04- Simple
05- Meh
06- Still Meh
07- Light
08- Not so Light
09- Normal
10- Not so Normal
---
11- Alright
12- Not so Alright
13- Kinda Hard
14- Hard
15- I'm Hard
16- Boner
17- Sex
18- Hardcore Sex
19- AIDS
20- R.I.P

Also, I like your list nois-or-e :3

[igotrhythm]

Heh. Some NVLM charts on SM do this with the bpm as well (like Death Moon). To be fair, the spikes are positively nuts...I actually went and tried the light chart for that on an xmod, and it was lulzy. It's in the sm scores thread somewhere.

To those hating on the Heavy and Oni tags, it's a reference to the challenge difficulty of DDR charts being called that, as well as the term used for challenge mode courses. Oni is a Japanese term that's variously translated as ogre, demon or monster, and those tags are still going to stay in the widget file titles...we also have Light and Standard tags for stuff like Ding Dong Song. stay true to ya roots~

That list looks good to me, Jae.

[andy-o24]

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Easy
04- Plain
05- Light
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Very Demanding
15- For Experts only
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- For Stepmen only
19- Ridiculous
20- Insane


Twenty will be hard to get used to. These (4 and 20) should fix the abbreviation issue. Best of luck.

-o24

[blindreper1179]

20: Good luck

[Plan_Bsk81127]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???



I've seen this in some other suggested name lists, but I think that "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" should be switched, in my opinion brutal sounds like harder difficulty compared to ridiculous.

[who_cares973]

01- untouched
02- never played
03- for penis play
04- yawn
05- snore
06- ugh
07- boring
08- sightread
09- first try
10- still boring
---
11- could be fun if drunk
12- a little fun
13- fun
14- good
15- better
16- rage inducing
17- really fun
18- thisisalliplayever
19- ew
20- GAY

[megamon88]

To those hating on the Heavy and Oni tags, it's a reference to the challenge difficulty of DDR charts being called that, as well as the term used for challenge mode courses. Oni is a Japanese term that's variously translated as ogre, demon or monster, and those tags are still going to stay in the widget file titles...we also have Light and Standard tags for stuff like Ding Dong Song. stay true to ya roots~

I know, and that's the problem. If we have both [Light] and [Standard] tags as well as Light and Standard difficulties, people are going to be confused as to which one is which. Ding Dong Song [Standard] might not actually be Standard difficulty (unless we get lucky), and similarly other songs are going to have differing tags and difficulties.

[rayword45]

17 - Brutal
18 - Ultra Hardcore
19 - Up to eleven
20 - Suck my balls and stop playing the damn game already

[TheSaxRunner05]

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Monumental
19- Legendary
20- ???

18 and 19 suggestions

[Evascythe]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???


- A lot of people are against the 'For _____ Only' titles as they seem a bit discriminative/uncouth, so this eliminates that.
- Also eliminates the 'Heavy' tag, as it seems a bit ambiguous in regards to the difficulties above it.
- A few haters on the 'Very' qualifier. To me it shows a gradual progression between the current difficulty and the one above it. As mentioned, coming up with 20 suitable descriptors without using words that have exactly the same meaning is harder than it looks.
- I am almost 100% certain that 20 will remain as ???, the only file in that difficulty is vRofl. And the ??? (as comically discussed with bmah moments ago) is a sort of throw-back to the old DDR charts where the bpm was a flashing/changing ??? to denote something crazy.
I like that list. Maybe switch around brutal and ridiculous like someone else said, though.

[Silvuh]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

[List]

Going to say this again:
Don't want to have too many words with a very strong "Easy" connotation which might discourage new players if they're stuck on "Easy" difficulties for too long.

Your new suggestions have "Light" (which I disapprove the use of, anyway) at "6", which is where "Standard" is around now. And current "Tricky" files would be around 6 to 7 on the new scale, but your new suggestions say files don't get tricky until "9", which current low "Very Difficult" files fit into. That's really kicking newer players down a few notches.

"Difficult" and "Challenging" should stay on opposite sides of the median for this reason, too.

Another thing: I don't think "Easiest" should be any difficulty other than 1. Because, you know, it should be the easiest difficulty.

You may want to put something like this in the top post so people will see it right away:

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Standard / Tricky
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Difficult / Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Challenging
13- Challening / Very Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Very Challenging / FMO
16- FMO
17- FMO / FGO
18- FGO
19- FGO / 13
20- vrofl

I'm still standing behind my suggestion to avoid using the words "Easy", "Light" and "Standard" and such. With what i love you posted a while ago, I think "Expert" can be stuck back in to get rid of "Brutal": (And now everything but EMG is different)

01- Easiest
02- Novice
03- Basic
04- Fair
05- Lenient
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Legend
19- Divine
20- __

If we're going to keep terms like "Master" and "Guru", "Legend" and "Divine" are good words to use past them to stay in the same theme.

Wanted to repost this, too:
Although, what you guys should have done first was determine if majority of the community would prefer not having certain names as difficulties (Example: "Very ____" names or "For ____ Only" names etc). It is far more effective to take things step by step by first seeing what the community wants/does not want before having them actually start naming difficulty names.
Would be good to have polls on some of these topics. Maybe use one of those polling websites and embed the polls into the top post instead of having a "Choose one option in each section" poll on the the thread.

Right now, what I'm wondering about the most is "Words that describe the ability or rank of the player" versus "Words that describe the difficulty of the file" for the difficulties on the harder side of the median.

I would be all for a system that avoids titles like "Master" and "Guru" if we can come to an agreement on what's appropriate ... How extreme can we allow "Difficulty" words to be? I'm fine with the words becoming violent, because that's what those hard files are to me. Making a difficulty-19 file is just ... sadistic.

So here are most of the "Difficulty" words that have been suggested before (which split neatly into "Violent" and "Crazy" categories):
Brutal
Painful
Exacting
Punishing
Onerous
Straining
Vicious

Extreme
Crazy
Insane
Ridiculous
Outrageous
Ludicrous
For consistency, words from only one list or the other should be used.

Making sure to avoid repeating initial letters with the rest of my list, here's my "Violent" suggestion for difficulties 15 through 19:

15- Onerous / Oppresive
16- Painful / Punishing
17- Vicious
18- Ruthless
19- Sadistic

I already used I, L, M, F, and C, so there are a lot of good crazy words I can't use here, but this what I came up with for the "Crazy" scale:

15- Wild
16- Absurd
17- Outrageous
18- Ridiculous
19- Psychotic

I don't like "Wild" that much, but I couldn't find another good word. Insane, Lunatic, Ludicrous, Maniacal, Mental, Frantic, Crazy, Demented ... all repeated letters.

[reptile3141]

01- FNO(For Noobs Only)
02- Easiest
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Basic
06- Moderate
07- Standard
08- Tricky
09- Very Tricky
10- Heavy
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Demanding
14- Very Demanding
15-Expert
16- For Masters only
17- For Gurus only
18- For Stepmen only
19- MAX
20- OMGWTFH4X

[Frank Munoz]

01- FNO(For Noobs Only)
This is perfect

[jimerax]

I vote "Legend"/"Legendary" above "Guru".

Another discussion point might be difficulty 11/20 is Difficult or Challenging.
Challenging for the compatibility, if we can find enough nice words for harder ones.

[popsicle_3000]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Legendary
19- Ridiculous
20- ???


I'm happy with this except for 18. I think brutal doesn't mean top tier as much as legendary or ridiculous. training is a good choice as well and i'm fine w/ ??? :)

I still don't think Light and Standard are good difficulties, simply because (as previously mentioned) there are songs with the [Light] and [Standard] tags. If we eventually get rid of them though and just make them v2 or something, then I'm fine with them as difficulties.

light/standard etc... i think are ok. i dont know if this is the case with all songs, but I've taken to mean v1/2 as different takes on the same song (take hellbeat, cia rave, etc...), whereas standard/heavy (such as sunless daybreak) mean more difficult versions of the same stepchart.

I vote "Legend"/"Legendary" above "Guru".


I strongly think legendary should be in it

[reptile3141]

This is perfect

I know, right?

[Hakulyte]

1 - More than Easy
2 - Too Easy to be Easy
3 - Still Too Easy
4 - Almost Too Easy
5 - Probably Almost Too Easy
6 - Could be confused with Too Easy
7 - Tricky Too Easy
8 - Not so Too Easy
9 - Challenging Too Easy
10 - Difficult Too Easy
11 - Brutal Too Easy
12 - Insane Too Easy
13 - Abnormally Hard for Too Easy
14 - This Song is Probably not Too Easy
15 - Too Easy to Mess up
16 - Too Easy to Hate on
17 - Too Easy to Rage on
18 - Very Hard for a Too Easy
19 - If you can AAA this you're almost Ready for Easy
20 - Easy

[Kienamaru]

Probably shouldn't be doing this on a tablet...

Cant see all the options so I say we have 20 as... either...

Demonic

or...

Ungodly

Also, itd be cool to have the Training changed to Noobish. because some people train on harder songs. Last thing, I disagree with Light and Heavy. I know they come from DDR but as said before, some songs have light or heavy in the titles, and to add my opinion, I dont see how a song can be considered... Light. makes me think of weight or color.

[emulord]

+500 to this! Very is important for people to understand the progression. For _ Only can be replaced with just the _ part. Good names all

Suggest Ridiculous -> Legendary. Seems more epic and less like a joke

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???


- A lot of people are against the 'For _____ Only' titles as they seem a bit discriminative/uncouth, so this eliminates that.
- Also eliminates the 'Heavy' tag, as it seems a bit ambiguous in regards to the difficulties above it.
- A few haters on the 'Very' qualifier. To me it shows a gradual progression between the current difficulty and the one above it. As mentioned, coming up with 20 suitable descriptors without using words that have exactly the same meaning is harder than it looks.
- I am almost 100% certain that 20 will remain as ???, the only file in that difficulty is vRofl. And the ??? (as comically discussed with bmah moments ago) is a sort of throw-back to the old DDR charts where the bpm was a flashing/changing ??? to denote something crazy.

[nois-or-e]

You may want to put something like this in the top post so people will see it right away:


01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Standard / Tricky
07- Tricky
08- Difficult
09- Difficult / Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Challenging
13- Challening / Very Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Very Challenging / FMO
16- FMO
17- FMO / FGO
18- FGO
19- FGO / 13
20- vrofl



If it is really that important, I can add this to the OP. I thought I'd made it fairly clear, but that's cool ;D
The final list will closer resemble this.

01- Easiest/For Beginners
02- For Beginners/Very Easy
03- Very Easy/Easy
04- Easy/Standard
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Tricky/Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging (approx. 45 - 50)
12- Challenging
13- Challening / lowest few VC
14- VC
15- high VC / lowest few FMO's
16- mid - high FMO
17- high FMO / low FGO
18- mid - high FGO
19- FSO
20- vrofl


-----


If we're going to keep terms like "Master" and "Guru", "Legend" and "Divine" are good words to use past them to stay in the same theme.
...
Right now, what I'm wondering about the most is "Words that describe the ability or rank of the player" versus "Words that describe the difficulty of the file" for the difficulties on the harder side of the median.

The opinions of all 3 Game Managers is that we keep them to varying levels of difficulty, straying away from utilising words that define the ability required. If FFR had an exp. point based levelling system, the titles that yourself and Subin have provided would be perfect. But in the way of accurately defining the level of difficulty of files, we don't think that they are very suitable.


That being said, keep the ideas coming guys~

[tofurox]

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Complex
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Multifarious
19- Labyrinthine
20- Chimerical

[who_cares973]

All I want is master and grandmaster in their somewhere

[hi19hi19]

I like leaving level 20 as ??? Like it's so hard you can't think of anything to call it

^^

[TheSaxRunner05]

??? will remain as the difficulty name for 20's as vRofl is the only song that falls into that category.

Sheesh no one reads =p

19 just has to be Legendary =p

[stavie33]

I like all these. Boundaries will still be debated, I'm sure of it, especially after playing through all the 8's. BTW I'm done.

[tofurox]

I still think chimerical and labyrinthine would make good difficulties. Multifarious is nice too.

[pie4thewin]

20 needs to be like "What is this? I don't even...

[demonllama6124]

i doubt it could be done, but if possible, put the troll face or u mad bro?for 20. i would also like to see Nightmare somewhere near the top tier, it just has a nice ring to it like legendary

[alloyus]

If it is really that important, I can add this to the OP. I thought I'd made it fairly clear, but that's cool ;D
The final list will closer resemble this.

01- Easiest/For Beginners
02- For Beginners/Very Easy
03- Very Easy/Easy
04- Easy/Standard
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Tricky/Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging (approx. 45 - 50)
12- Challenging
13- Challening / lowest few VC
14- VC
15- high VC / lowest few FMO's
16- mid - high FMO
17- high FMO / low FGO
18- mid - high FGO
19- FSO
20- vrofl




You have 9 and 10 as "very difficult"

[Frank Munoz]

All I want is master and grandmaster in their somewhere

Thattswhatshesaid

I like Tofurox's use of "complex". But I think "complex" should be below "Challenging" as complex resembles advanced trickiness.
Fans of the "for _ only" should also like reptile's FNO(For Noobs Only) as difficulty 1, if not then meh. I think it's really great as it foreshadows that of the higher difficulties and it's just funny.

Iactuallyjustmadethisposttosay"that'swhatshesaid"
Also, I think you spelled "their" wrong but who_cares

[PrawnSkunk]

You have 9 and 10 as "very difficult"

He is showing how FFR difficulties will show up on the 1-20 scale.

Zag Nois means that difficulties, such as Difficult & Challenging will be split up across different difficulties.

[nois-or-e]

Zag? O)_____O)

[I like it]

Derp sorry Jae, had a thread by Zag open and thought it was you.

**edit: oops im on i like it, wrong account

[PrawnSkunk]

Derp sorry Jae, had a thread by Zag open and thought it was you.

[nois-or-e]

Nice attempt of a troll guys, but I can see what ips you are posting from~

Prawn: np mate, it happens ;D

[DossarLX ODI]

Alright so I went back to see what the 1-20 system would be, translated from the old system.

01- Easiest/For Beginners
02- For Beginners/Very Easy
03- Very Easy/Easy
04- Easy/Standard
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Tricky/Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Low Challenging
12- Mid Challenging
13- High Challening / Low VC
14- Mid VC
15- High VC / Low FMO
16- mid - high FMO
17- high FMO / low FGO
18- mid - high FGO
19- FSO
20- Vertex Beta vROFL

Something I'd like to ask is: Why change something that doesn't need fixing? No, really. Why is it automatically assumed that we have to suddenly ditch the old names that have been used for the past 9 years and everyone's familiar with? Pretty much everyone I talk to on Skype and AIM has admitted that they'll still think of files as VC, FMO, etc. even if the new names come in place.

Time should not be wasted on changing the names of difficulties. People will still continue calling difficulties by their old names. Older discussions will make no sense because of the different names. Keeping the old names we've had for the past 9 years will still make discussions in that big time frame make sense. qqwref actually made a post about this back on page 3 (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3697415&postcount=57), but I couldn't comment because I was banned at the time.

It's fine if a name spans more than one difficulty number. Our current 1-14 scale goes by a general range. There are low FMOs and high FMOs, and so on. Difficulties are for general ranges. I am, however, in support of changing the FSO title to something more appropriate.

[TheSaxRunner05]

I am, however, in support of changing the FSO title to something more appropriate.

Like Legendary =)

[Winrar]

I agree with Dossar 100% changing the names will bring up too much confusion to newer members, and veterans will continue using the older names.

[wargasm1]

for lv 20 ''move to sm'' :P

[Winrar]

20. If you can AAA this no one will find you attractive sry

[EzExZeRo7497]

It's fine if a name spans more than one difficulty number. Our current 1-14 scale goes by a general range. There are low FMOs and high FMOs, and so on. Difficulties are for general ranges. I am, however, in support of changing the FSO title to something more appropriate.

I agree with this.

[popsicle_3000]

I'd be quite happy to keep the names the same. changing FSO to Legendary would be the only change.

only problem with this would be that somethink like 18 where there is a cross over between FMO & FGOs... then amen iraq would be called the same as FN. then what would you refer it to?

[stargroup100]

whatever you end up using I highly recommend you avoid references to ddr such as "for stepman only" and "oni"

because those sound dumb and they are dumb

[Poison-]

I completely agree with Dossar. I don't like the idea of new names.

[iironiic]

So my suggestion is simple: figure out which new difficulties roughly correspond with the old ones, and then just bring the names over. It's fine if something like VC or FMO spans more than one difficulty number.

Seems like we have more supporters for qq's suggestion :3

[deadpony]

I never look at the names anyway, lol I have always gone by number.

[ShadowXall]

Get rid of "For stepman only" please it sounds utterly retarded.

Also difficulty 20 should be left as simply "20"

It's so hard it gets no real name

01- Beginners
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Simple
05- Light
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Demanding
12- Heavy
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Oni
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Ridiculous
19- Brutal
20- Legendary


By far the best, in my opinion.

[One Winged Angel]

My updated suggestions. Thoughts?

01- Training
02- Easiest
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

Hi, use this plz

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Novice
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

Novice could technically work as 5, following Very Easy and Easy (shifting those down to 3 and 4), but either or works imo

[i love you]

Alright so I went back to see what the 1-20 system would be, translated from the old system.

01- Easiest/For Beginners
02- For Beginners/Very Easy
03- Very Easy/Easy
04- Easy/Standard
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Tricky/Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Low Challenging
12- Mid Challenging
13- High Challening / Low VC
14- Mid VC
15- High VC / Low FMO
16- mid - high FMO
17- high FMO / low FGO
18- mid - high FGO
19- FSO
20- Vertex Beta vROFL

Something I'd like to ask is: Why change something that doesn't need fixing? No, really. Why is it automatically assumed that we have to suddenly ditch the old names that have been used for the past 9 years and everyone's familiar with? Pretty much everyone I talk to on Skype and AIM has admitted that they'll still think of files as VC, FMO, etc. even if the new names come in place.

Time should not be wasted on changing the names of difficulties. People will still continue calling difficulties by their old names. Older discussions will make no sense because of the different names. Keeping the old names we've had for the past 9 years will still make discussions in that big time frame make sense. qqwref actually made a post about this back on page 3 (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3697415&postcount=57), but I couldn't comment because I was banned at the time.

It's fine if a name spans more than one difficulty number. Our current 1-14 scale goes by a general range. There are low FMOs and high FMOs, and so on. Difficulties are for general ranges. I am, however, in support of changing the FSO title to something more appropriate.
Which is why I mentioned this post:
Although, what you guys should have done first was determine if majority of the community would prefer not having certain names as difficulties (Example: "Very ____" names or "For ____ Only" names etc). It is far more effective to take things step by step by first seeing what the community wants/does not want before having them actually start naming difficulty names. That way the community would have more of an idea of what majority of people agreed/disagreed to and they will come up with better difficulty names based on what the community wanted.
It is far better to first discuss with the community on what they prefer/not prefer first before coming up with names or w/e. The results would have been much more accurate and people would have more of an idea on what to name those new difficulties and from there, we can determine as a community which list they prefer the most and just end it there. It was a big mistake for nois-or-e to just start this thread and immediately have people come up with names blindly without any discussion/debate about the changing of the names etc.

Also, I still think 20 should be left blank.

EDIT: Just want to mention that I do agree with qqwref's sugguestion

[bmah]

Hi, use this plz

01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Novice
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

Novice could technically work as 5, following Very Easy and Easy (shifting those down to 3 and 4), but either or works imo

I actually quite like this list, with the only questionable one being Novice of course (what defines a "novice", especially in relation to "very easy/easy"?).

Also, I still think 20 should be left blank.

I think this just makes the 20 difficulty look like some sort of coding error in which the coder forgot to add in a description. Using "???" is far better and adds to this mysterious difficulty that few dare to attempt (or so to speak, want to give off that vibe).

Also, about the "very" descriptor (e.g. Challenging vs Very Challenging), I think such an adjective is necessary to better demonstrate a gradual difficulty curve, as opposed to trying to find 7-8 different words that are all really synonyms of the word "hard" in the upper half of the scale. Stuff like "Chimera" doesn't describe any sort of difficulty AT ALL. Sure it sounds "mean", but it's far from describing an actual measure of difficulty. Words gotta be more utilitarian than that. It also doesn't describe itself as being more difficult or easier than its adjacent difficulties.

As for qqrwref's suggestion, I'm currently undecided. Right now, a few lists such as the one OWA posted are quite satisfactory to me.

[tofurox]

I love the idea of new difficulty names still. Even if it would be kinda confusing at first, it just takes a bit to get used to. Many of the older difficulty names are still being used anyways, just the added levels need difficulty names. I've seen a lot of great names in here that would work out well in the actual game.

[i love you]

I think this just makes the 20 difficulty look like some sort of coding error in which the coder forgot to add in a description. Using "???" is far better and adds to this mysterious difficulty that few dare to attempt (or so to speak, want to give off that vibe).That is a good point although putting "???" for a 20 just seems weird to me lol. How about just name it "20" or just put one question mark instead of three question marks? xd

EDIT: Then again, does it really matter haha

[bmah]

Well if only one thing changed in the system, I'd say it'd HAVE to be "For Stepmen Only". I don't even know who coined that term.

[Marshazle]

1 Cakewalk
2. Simple
3. Mediocre
4. Average
5. Moderate
6. Tricky
7. Aggressive
8. Expert
9. Challenging
10. Very Challenging
11. Extremely Difficult
12. Insane
13. Brutal
14. Very Brutal
15. Ledgendary
16. Armageddon
17. For Masters Only
18. For Gurus Only
19. For Gods Only
20. Impossible

[alloyus]

I'd probably be cool with keeping old names but spread across multiple difficulties.

[1mpuls3]

01- Beginner
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Mediocre
06- Moderate
07- Tricky
08- Grand
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Ultra Difficult
12- Challenging
13- Very Challenging
14- Prodigy
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Ridiculous
19- Legendary
20- God-Like God-Like (It is in white)


I also like Extreme and or majestic as names

[demonllama6124]

Why is everyone putting beginner ahead of very easy? Think about what beginner means for a second and you will all understand that it needs to be the lowest of the totem pole here.

[Ghakimx]

Why do we call the 01 'Training'? I think its better off as Beginner.

[nois-or-e]

It was a big mistake for nois-or-e to just start this thread and immediately have people come up with names blindly without any discussion/debate about the changing of the names etc.


We created placeholders during the last few months of discussing the new system as it developed. I fail to see how asking the community for their opinion was a mistake. Through the discussions in this thread we've determined that a majority dislike the For ____ Only, and have removed said names from the suggested list in the OP.

As much as people will support qq's idea of just bringing over the old difficulty names, it really defeats the purpose of better defining the difficulties. If you notice in the OP 11 & 12 are populated by the old Challenging files, where 13 = 80% C and 20% VC, so calling it C/VC would be inaccurate and kind of pointless.

I feel it has been a good exercise in brainstorming, seeing players come up with different ideas and then others making suggestions based off those.


Edit: The OP has been updated.

[UserNameGoesHere]

Oh come on, no one liked the Robot or Cyborg ideas for some of the more ridiculous stuff? I expected at least one other person to incorporate those into their list somewhere or something. ...Nothing?

[i love you]

We created placeholders during the last few months of discussing the new system as it developed. I fail to see how asking the community for their opinion was a mistake. Through the discussions in this thread we've determined that a majority dislike the For ____ Only, and have removed said names from the suggested list in the OP.
I am just saying that it would have been easier to first ask the community what they wanted first and then have them name difficulties rather then setting up some placeholder and then getting the community to see if they agree with it by blinding coming up with difficulties that most of the community might not even want. You probably would get better results but like I said before, it does not really matter now since it happened already so just carry on with what you are doing since now you are getting somewhere.

As much as people will support qq's idea of just bringing over the old difficulty names, it really defeats the purpose of better defining the difficulties. If you notice in the OP 11 & 12 are populated by the old Challenging files, where 13 = 80% C and 20% VC, so calling it C/VC would be inaccurate and kind of pointless.Just so we are clear, I never agreed with the list Dossar placed. I only agreed with qq idea of keeping the old names but at the same time I also agree with the people not having difficulty names such as "For ___ Only" since it just sounds dumb and confusing. Sure people will still refer them as a FMO/FGO etc but in the end, I see nothing wrong with just putting something simple such as "Master" or "Guru" as a name. Also, the sentence I highlighted in bold on your quote is definitely something I agree with.

I feel it has been a good exercise in brainstorming, seeing players come up with different ideas and then others making suggestions based off those.You probably would have seen more brainstorming by asking the community what they prefer first before adding a placeholder. Your placeholder probably would have been more accurate as well thus saving time and effort. Again, just continue on what you are doing since it doesn't really matter anymore.

[Xtreme2252]

I know this doesn't work for what you guys have set up, but this would definitely be the coolest ever.

00- Nickelback
01- Easiest
02- Beginner
03- Very Simple
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Insane
17- Master
18- Guru
19- God-Tier
20- ???
21- PROFIT!

[moogle443]

Hardest difficulty should be "Bruce Lee Only"

[AlexDest]

Suppose I'll post my ideas.

01- Elementary
02- Novice
03- Basic
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Casual
07- Decent
08- Moderate
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- For Experts Only
16- For Masters Only
17- For Gurus Only
18- For Brutes Only
19- For Superiors Only
20- ???

[TC_Halogen]

Going to say that I agree with qqwref, and for multiple reasons.

A big reason would be the cliche "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The rating system never needed fixing, but the scaling of the system does. With the system being scaled to twenty points and everyone still referring to the files as FMO/FGO/VC/(etc), things should be more clear-cut and shouldn't be argued about as much.

With twenty different names for twenty different points, you're likely to run into similar difficulty arguments again.

[qqwref]

The rating system never needed fixing, but the scaling of the system does.
I agree with this 100%.

[ilikexd]

I don't think twenty different difficulty names can logically compare difficulty with so many of them being synonyms of one another, and it is hard to keep track of that many. I do like the difficulty name system as it is: people are comfortable and accustomed comparing skill and achievement with the amount of VC, FMO, FGO, etc. AAAs that they have. There are already perceived "low", "mid", and "high" files of each difficulty, particularly the higher ones. This can be used as a guideline for the proposed 1-20 rating system, but I do not think it should take its own set of names. I know it's a different system, but in DDR there are heavy, standard, and light songs that are different footers. FFR can have the same.
tl;dr: It just seems silly to have so many names that are hard to keep track of and that aren't intuitively comparable.

[bmah]

I know it's a different system, but in DDR there are heavy, standard, and light songs that are different footers. FFR can have the same.

But you're comparing apples to oranges. An "FMO" difficulty on FFR is not equivalent to a "heavy" difficulty on DDR. "light", "standard", and "heavy" are rather different MODES of play, something that doesn't exist on FFR with the exception of a few songs that have multiple difficulties. Instead, FFR has a system that's more comparable to naming each "footer". I'm not going against your general idea; I just felt that I needed to correct this.

[ilikexd]

But you're comparing apples to oranges. An "FMO" difficulty on FFR is not equivalent to a "heavy" difficulty on DDR. "light", "standard", and "heavy" are rather different MODES of play, something that doesn't exist on FFR with the exception of a few songs that have multiple difficulties. Instead, FFR has a system that's more comparable to naming each "footer". I'm not going against your general idea; I just felt that I needed to correct this.

Yeah, I understand that "heavy" and "light" etc. are actually modes of play, but what I'm saying is they are single difficulty names that don't all represent the same footer. I admit that it's a really bad example, especially since the footers are not fixed (some standard can actually be higher footer than heavy).

[i love you]

Please do not let this thread die.

I apologize in advance if I was the one who caused this to get inactive. From what I have seen, the list on the OP looks pretty soild and looks ready to go for the most part. I think i remember certain people in this thread saying that they would not like any difficulty names with the words "light, standard, and heavy" mainly because those are term names to determine the difficulty level of a file with multiple difficulties HOWEVER it seems like they are more people who would rather keep the old names rather then changing them. There is also more people not wanting the "For ___ Only" stuff either so from looking at those sugguestions/thoughts from the community and combining/balancing them, I guess I can say that the list nois-or-e has right now (on the OP) should be the final list unless if you can think of a way to better balance it.

PS: I learned something today and that is let people who starts threads like this do things their way unless if it gets to the point were the community starts going nuts hehe.

EDIT: I'm curious if majority of the community agrees with the list nois-or-e has on the OP. It looks good enough for me.

[who_cares973]

training should be before easiest it only makes sense

[TheSaxRunner05]

Ridiculous needs to be changed to Legendary; it's so much more epic sounding

[U.N. Owen]

I figured that once this system is finally in place, we'll be able to set each one to a range of difficulties in the 1-99 rankings.
(ex. Difficulty 70-75 AAA will award [oni])I might be nitpicking, but shouldn't that be 76-81? (if we're going off of the current 1-99 system)

Or just make it 76-83 so that the requirement finally matches what pops up after obtaining the ST.

[Jerry DB]

Ridiculous needs to be changed to Legendary; it's so much more epic sounding

I agree with this and pretty much it will look legit after that

[mrpreggers]

I know it's inconsequential, since anyone who can AAA past a certain difficulty can get Oni.. but why doesn't anything past 75 or w/e give Oni?

[popsicle_3000]

Ridiculous needs to be changed to Legendary; it's so much more epic sounding

pretty please

[BahamutZER0]

Current list is fine with me, I'd rather expert/master/guru had descriptive names in line with the rest of the system but it's not a big deal and master/guru are traditional

[Silvuh]

We can't just keep the old difficulty names and leave it at that. The non-R2 engines display a difficulty title, so if a file becomes a new-15, it still needs to be labeled as either a VC or FMO, which doesn't solve any problems. Unless ...

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Low Difficult
08- Difficult
09- Low Very Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Low Challenging
12- Challenging
13- High Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- High Very Challenging
16- Master
17- High Master
18- Guru
19- Legend
20- ???

You get rid of the idea of a "high VD" and "low VC/FMO/FGO". All low FMOs would be labeled as VCs, and so on. One difficulty name spanning more than one number should be fine (as it has been said quite a few times before), but two difficulty names in one number can't work. ... I know no one was suggesting the latter should happen; I guess I just feel like being contrary, because I still disagree with pretty much everything in the current list in the OP. It hasn't changed much since the last time I posted in here, so I'll be repeating myself for a while now ...

I think i remember certain people in this thread saying that they would not like any difficulty names with the words "light, standard, and heavy" mainly because those are term names to determine the difficulty level of a file with multiple difficulties HOWEVER it seems like they are more people who would rather keep the old names rather then changing them.
This is still my first point, but I will reluctantly concede unless it magically stats getting more support ...

Anyway, next up ... Any difficulty name carried over from the old system should stay around the same area. It will take more time to get used to otherwise, but that's not the biggest issue: the current list would be discouraging to less-skilled players. Everything from Standard to Very Difficult suddenly became two to three difficulties harder. When they should be AAAing Very Difficult songs, all they'll be getting to is "Tricky". That hardly seems fair.

And finally ...
The opinions of all 3 Game Managers is that we keep them to varying levels of difficulty, straying away from utilising words that define the ability required. If FFR had an exp. point based levelling system, the titles that yourself and Subin have provided would be perfect. But in the way of accurately defining the level of difficulty of files, we don't think that they are very suitable.
Doesn't this mean words like Beginner, Expert, Master, and Guru won't be in the final difficulty list? I thought that's what this meant—because that's what I meant—but those terms are still in the list in the OP.

But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.

So if Expert-Master-Guru is staying, change one of the final two difficulties to match the other like so:

18- Brutal
19- Ruthless

18- Ridiculous
19- Ludicrous

This consistency issue is also why I have a problem with the easiest difficulties. It's confusing having any difficulties between ones with "easy" in the root. I still believe "Easiest" has to be new-01 if it's included, so "Very Easy" and "Easy" would become 02 and 03 ... but words like "Novice" and "Beginner" don't feel right going after "Easy". So, in my previous post, I was intentionally avoiding "Easy", so I used "Novice" instead, but now that I'm ignoring rank words, well ... I'm taking the other option here.

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
---
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Intense
14- Very Intense
...
20- ???

Paying slightly less attention to repeated initial letters, here are my updated suggestions for difficulties 15 through 19:

15- Painful
16- Brutal
17- Vicious
18- Ruthless
19- Sadistic

15- Crazy
16- Frantic
17- Ridiculous
18- Ludicrous
19- Psychotic


Bringing up one last point now:
With twenty different names for twenty different points, you're likely to run into similar difficulty arguments again.
The answer to this problem was already mentioned:
There are already perceived "low", "mid", and "high" files of each difficulty, particularly the higher ones. This can be used as a guideline for the proposed 1-20 rating system, but I do not think it should take its own set of names.
But I'm going to disagree with the last clause of this post; I do think a new set of name would be an improvement. Just think about some of the new difficulties as housing the borderline files between the old difficulties. Is this file a 12 or a 14? If it's in between, it's a 13—don't think about the border between 13 and 14.

TL;DR.

P.S. This is me going nuts.

P.P.S. Thank you for putting the current system layered over the new system in the OP.

[i love you]

I must say Silvuh that you have really put in a lot of thought about this new difficultly system and it shows from your posts in this thread. I like the fact that you have carefully anaylzed this whole thread and explained your reasoning as to why you did this and that etc. After reading what you had to say about the consistency of the difficulty names, I think I will have to agree with you more now on your list (at least from 1-14 mainly because those 15-19 names you have created would go against the people who would like to have some of the old names back and I believe that words such as "expert" "master" and "guru" should be somewhere on that 15-19 list including two more difficulty names that would fit around those names.)

Which brings me to this quote from you:

But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.

So if Expert-Master-Guru is staying, change one of the final two difficulties to match the other like so:

18- Brutal
19- Ruthless

--or--

18- Ridiculous
19- Ludicrous

Very good points here. I think the best option is to keep the Expert-Master-Guru names and go with one of those two 18-19 names that you have came up with for consistency. Either majority of the community will go with one of those options or someone in this thread will come up with two better names for 18-19 that sounds consistent.

[igotrhythm]

If it comes down to that, I'm gonna go with the Brutal-Ruthless option.

[justin_ator]

01- Welcome
02- Training
03- Easy
04- Very Easy
05- Low D1
06- High D1
07- Low D2
08- High D2
09- Low D3
10- High D3
---
11- Low D4
12- Mid D4
13- High D4
14- Low D5
15- Mid D5
16- High D5
17- Low D6
18- Mid D6
19- High D6
20- Go Outside

Makes acronyms really easy :3

[Findarian]

If it comes down to that, I'm gonna go with the Brutal-Ruthless option.

+1 to that, I like it much more than the other suggestion. A poll should be started if that sounds like what we're going to do and leave it open until it's obvious one way or the other

[!!!!]

19. Da ****?
20. Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[jimerax]

Anyway, next up ... Any difficulty name carried over from the old system should stay around the same area. It will take more time to get used to otherwise, but that's not the biggest issue: the current list would be discouraging to less-skilled players. Everything from Standard to Very Difficult suddenly became two to three difficulties harder.

Considering we probably won't entirely replace current difficulty names, having compatibility with the old system is a nice thing (although I think we can shift the actual difficulty of a name for harder side by a bit, due to improvement of the engine and skill boost of people). This may start from the "Should 11 be Difficult or "Challenging?" discussion.


But my third point is that, whatever goes in these last five difficulties, it needs to be consistent. "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" aren't comparable, because they're on different scales: one is violent and one is crazy.

In the current list, just changing one of them to "Legend" would be even worse: "Legend" can't be easier than "Brutal" or "Ridiculous", because you'd think a Legend would be able to breeze through that stuff ... but "Legend" can't be above either of the other words, because a difficulty word would be between two rank words, and that's even more discernibly inconsistent.


Yeah, "Legend", "Brutal" and "Ridiculous" are all in different lines and difficult to compare. "Legend" was just considered because it's in the same line with Master/Guru, but unfortunately we haven't found another suitable word in the same line. If we go with "violence" or "craziness" series, consistent word choice will be a good way like you suggested.

I personally prefer words that simply describe the degree of difficulties if we can find though, since these are official things.


ps difficulty words used in old DDR, as reference.

1 SIMPLE
2 MODERATE/AVERAGE
3 ORDINARY
4 SUPERIOR
5 MARVELOUS
6 GENUINE
7 PARAMOUNT/HERO
8 EXORBITANT
9 CATASTROPHIC

[wildfireskunk]

DDR's case as a reference for word choice.

1 SIMPLE
2 MODERATE/AVERAGE
3 ORDINARY
4 SUPERIOR
5 MARVELOUS
6 GENUINE
7 PARAMOUNT/HERO
8 EXORBITANT
9 CATASTROPHIC

Using 'very' to split them up, we could just adapt this!

1 SIMPLE
2 VERY SIMPLE
3 MODERATE
4 VERY MODERATE
5 ORDINARY
6 VERY ORDINARY
7 SUPERIOR
8 VERY SUPERIOR
9 MARVELLOUS
10 VERY MARVELLOUS
11 GENUINE
12 VERY GENUINE
13 PARAMOUNT
14 VERY PARAMOUNT
15 EXORBITANT
16 VERY EXORBITANT
17 CATASTROPHIC
18 VERY CATASTROPHIC
19 TEN FOOTER
20 TWENTY FOOTER!??!

You're all welcome.


...


Although srs, Silvuh's list is a good one I think. The first 14 are really good, although with the apparent difficulty of thinking of decent names for the last 5/6 perhaps it'd be worth inserting another 2 difficulties beforehand? Perhaps something like formidable, since most of the other good synonyms for difficult would make for repeating letters... I'm also a supporter of keeping the classic ones, Expert, Master and Guru. And Legendary is my favourite top one.

As such, starting with Silvuh's names I'd suggest...

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Formidable
14- Very Formidable
15- Intense
16- Very Intense
17- Expert
18- Master
19- Guru
20- Legendary

Since y'know, you'd have to be pretty damned legendary to get any kind of score on a 20.

[Jake Ferguson]

01- Easiest
02- Very Easy
03- Easy
04- Light
05- Moderate
06- Standard
07- Tricky
08- Very Tricky
09- Difficult
10- Very Difficult
11- Challenging
12- Very Challenging
13- Formidable
14- Very Formidable
15- Intense
16- Very Intense
17- Expert
18- Master
19- Guru
20- Legendary

Since y'know, you'd have to be pretty damned legendary to get any kind of score on a 20.

Think this is the best list so far, and finally somebody thinks formidable is good word too :-P

[Herogashix]

Why not just 3 difficulties?

Easy
Hard
Dum

[top]

Easy
Hard
Dumqft

[qqwref]

And now, for something pretty similar.

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult+ (D+)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult+ (VD+)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging+ (C+)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging+ (VC+)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only+ (FMO+)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only+ (FGO+)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

[stavie33]

And now, for something pretty similar.

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult+ (D+)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult+ (VD+)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging+ (C+)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging+ (VC+)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only+ (FMO+)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only+ (FGO+)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

I actually like this the most lol

[DossarLX ODI]

In agreement with qqwref's list. It makes the most sense.

[Zakvvv666]

Will certainly make acronyms easier to move to instead of a whole set of other names.

[bmah]

Only issue I see in that list is that it can appear more confusing. We're used to seeing stuff like "Difficult" and "Very Difficult" as individual components, but to someone else, it can be viewed as the splitting of a difficulty into two parts. Splitting that even further would appear more confusing. You'd have a title that's like the subgroup of another subgroup.
"What's Difficult+? Huh? That's not Very Difficult? Doesn't + imply it's very difficult?" a new user may think.

IMO, I think the list gives an overly micromanaging appearance. It would've been more appropriate if difficulties like "Challenging" didn't already have two terms with a magnitudinal description as their differences.

Otherwise, you may as well have Challenging, Very Challenging, Very Very Challenging, and Very Very Very Challenging.

[leonid]

Divide the 20 difficulties into five groups of four, and tell them apart by appending four different smilies to them.


01- For Beginners Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/VeryHappy.gif
02- For Beginners Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Smile.gif
03- For Beginners Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Cool.gif
04- For Beginners Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Twisted.gif
05- Easy http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/VeryHappy.gif
06- Easy http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Smile.gif
07- Easy http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Cool.gif
08- Easy http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Twisted.gif
09- Standard http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/VeryHappy.gif
10- Standard http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Smile.gif
11- Standard http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Cool.gif
12- Standard http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Twisted.gif
13- Challenging http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/VeryHappy.gif
14- Challenging http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Smile.gif
15- Challenging http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Cool.gif
16- Challenging http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Twisted.gif
17- For Masters Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/VeryHappy.gif
18- For Masters Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Smile.gif
19- For Masters Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Cool.gif
20- For Masters Only http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/images/smiley/Twisted.gif

[wildfireskunk]

I'm not big on the + signs next to the existing difficulties. bmah pinpoints the same problem I have in that having each word span four different difficulties is just untidy and not very nice.

[DossarLX ODI]

Actually, it would be the opposite. If a new user finds discussions that have taken place over the past nine years, then it will look very untidy and confusing. It's really not that hard to see that + means the higher end, lol (hell even look at FFR tournaments. hi19's tournament had D5 split into like four parts? D5A, D5B, D5C, and D5D. He also had a lot of subdivisions in D1 and so forth)

[MarioNintendo]

Only issue I see in that list is that it can appear more confusing. We're used to seeing stuff like "Difficult" and "Very Difficult" as individual components, but to someone else, it can be viewed as the splitting of a difficulty into two parts. Splitting that even further would appear more confusing. You'd have a title that's like the subgroup of another subgroup.
"What's Difficult+? Huh? That's not Very Difficult? Doesn't + imply it's very difficult?" a new user may think.

IMO, I think the list gives an overly micromanaging appearance. It would've been more appropriate if difficulties like "Challenging" didn't already have two terms with a magnitudinal description as their differences.

Otherwise, you may as well have Challenging, Very Challenging, Very Very Challenging, and Very Very Very Challenging.

I can only partly agree with this. It's true that, when you look at it, the "very"s and the "+"s can get confusing for newcomers. However, I also believe that, once you get to see the whole list to understand the logic behind it, it's hard to get confused. Maybe, when the new difficulties are applied, a quick reminder in the engine (like a help panel when you first log in that would also be available afterwards somewhere) would be the solution to this problem you mentioned. We could also go directly in the newbie forums to make a poll or something to see how the newcomers react to the list.

[igotrhythm]

I like this idea a lot. Get a post in the newbie forums so we can get a larger sample of the community involved, instead of just the opinions of those that have strong opinions regarding file difficulty.

However, if a news post isn't going to get people's attention, I don't see a sticky/announcement doing much either. Still, can't hurt to try it.

[bmah]

It's really not that hard to see that + means the higher end, lol

And as I said, would be fine IF it wasn't for the fact that there were already magnitudinal descriptions for these old difficulties.

If there was such a system like:

Difficult
Difficult+
Challenging
Challenging+
etc.

I would be perfectly fine with this. But you already have "Very" describing high and low ends of these magnitudes, so further dissecting it with "+" would be even less straightforward. Right now, you're proposing for:

{Name}
- {Subname}
- - {Subsubname}

I propose to either think of a few new names to replace descriptions with "very", or go back to many other people's suggestions with unique descriptions for each difficulty.

[DossarLX ODI]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself on how for the past nine years these difficulties have been used. Back in 2005 when I first was playing FFR I wasn't confused by "Challenging" and "Very Difficult". Using + is *nothing* like saying very very difficult, because if I was a newbie back in 2005, I was 11 years old and basically knew very little about the game at all, and knew that very difficult was a lower rating than challenging, there isn't going to be that confusion compared to coming up with names that will make older discussions way more confusing.

I would think "very difficult" would be harder than "challenging" back in that time, but I knew the ratings and it made sense with the discussions at the time. "Oh hey, this is only challenging. But this is very difficult? Wait, what is Very challenging supposed to be? What does it compare to?"

[bmah]

But back then, you didn't have a second descriptor subdividing it even further. You had "challenging" and "very challenging". You didn't have "challenging", "challenging+", "very challenging", "very challenging+". That's way too many subdivisions. A new user may not see that as very intuitive. One subdivision's enough.

[qqwref]

Honestly I don't even see the "Very" as a subdivision anymore. A VC isn't an extra hard C file, it's a separate difficulty entirely.

We don't even have to use the +s - actually, we could just have (for instance) both 15 and 16 be called For Masters Only, like what we always did with the 1-99 system. It might be a little confusing at first but I think people would quickly realize that 15 means "a low FMO" and 16 means "a high FMO".

Bonus: Oni doesn't become yet again even harder to achieve...

[Zakvvv666]

We don't even have to use the +s - actually, we could just have (for instance) both 15 and 16 be called For Masters Only, like what we always did with the 1-99 system. It might be a little confusing at first but I think people would quickly realize that 15 means "a low FMO" and 16 means "a high FMO".

This idea actually seems REALLY good, this way we not only have the new system, but it won't mess with people keeping track of VC AAA's, FMO AAA's etc. and would likely make everyone much happier including myself.

[stavie33]

If I were a noob and saw the +, like in most other games that have a + added to anything, it means higher end. Take shooters for example. You have an upgrade, lets say fast reload, and lets say you have another upgrade called instant reload. Fast reload allows you to do, lets say an active reload like in GoW and it gives you more powerful bullets and reloads quicker, and lets say instant reload immediately reloads your gun so you can non-stop fire. These are different perks, one is not a 'faster' version of the other. Lets say like in most games these perks are upgradable. You'll generally see on the menu then 'fast reload+' and 'instant reload+'. This just means you have a higher level of upgrade, and no one would get confused between whether fast reload+ is the same as instant.

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but if we properly define difficulties and have it listed/stickied where any noob can find it, they will realize that those are distinct difficulties, and + just means the higher end of those difficulties.

I don't feel like scrapping everything we have because as Dossar said, we've been using them for 9 years and even if we change their names people will still be using them. They are ingrained into the site by now, and it would take longer to learn a whole new mess of difficulty names that are unnecessary and in a way even more misleading/confusing than what we already use. Yes when I started I was confused as to whether challenging is harder than difficult, where the hell tricky even stood, and whether Master was above Guru. This can all be solved by just making sure there is a place that's easy to find, and in the open that defines the difficulties.

This confusion will occur no matter what we choose, why is training higher than easiest? Where would training stand? Challenging is still confusing compared with difficult, none of this gets fixed, all it does is require the 9+ year community to completely relearn everything, make all previous discussions unreadable, and then have noobs learn an even more complex system with 20 different difficulty names. Honestly I think it would be quite easy once we explain whether challenging > difficult in general for any competent person to realize 'challenging+ is obviously higher than challenging, and very challenging is higher than challenging and as a different rating is probably higher than challenging+'. The plus connects the two difficulties, and thus I'd find it hard to believe someone would think the order goes C, VC, C+, VC+ instead of C, C+, VC, VC+.'

An easy solution would be just have actual difficulty numbers out of 20 next to the file, like in beatmania and new DDR, they don't require difficulty names. When I talk about DDR, it's always been 'this is a 10, this is an 8', and for beatmania 'this is an 8, this a 12'. That's simple, used in other rhythm games, and cannot be misleading.

PHEW long post

[i love you]

Honestly I don't even see the "Very" as a subdivision anymore. A VC isn't an extra hard C file, it's a separate difficulty entirely.

We don't even have to use the +s - actually, we could just have (for instance) both 15 and 16 be called For Masters Only, like what we always did with the 1-99 system. It might be a little confusing at first but I think people would quickly realize that 15 means "a low FMO" and 16 means "a high FMO".

Bonus: Oni doesn't become yet again even harder to achieve...
When you put it this way, I must agree.

Still, I thought it would be cool to change those "For __ Only" names and to rename the 1-14 names to the ones Silvuh thought of on his post. It just sounds better and makes more sense AT LEAST for me anyway lol.

EDIT: Holy shit stavie LMAO (Big ass wall of text xD)

[popsicle_3000]

i'm still a fan of nois's suggestions. plz no +'s...

[One Winged Angel]

I'd prefer if there wasn't any overlap in the difficulty titles (i.e. FMO being reserved for both 15 and 16). Would look cleaner choosing a different name for each level, despite the fact that the community has grown accustomed to referring to the vast majority of more difficult songs as either FMO or FGO.

Plus I really want Brutal as the rating for 18 or 19 :twisted:

[MarioNintendo]

We don't even have to use the +s - actually, we could just have (for instance) both 15 and 16 be called For Masters Only, like what we always did with the 1-99 system. It might be a little confusing at first but I think people would quickly realize that 15 means "a low FMO" and 16 means "a high FMO".


Maybe this, then?

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult (D)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult (VD)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging (C)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging (VC)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only (FMO)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only (FGO)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

[iironiic]

PHEW long post

Not your longest post ;)

Just a small question. What if we just refer the difficulties as "15" or something, and then give a set range for "Masters"? So for example, the current "FMOs" (would prefer calling them "Master" instead) can have difficulty 15-16. That way, people can count how many "Master" songs they have AAA'd, etc. We don't need to come up with 20 names. Just saying difficulty 15 gives a good idea of what to expect in the file.

[25thhour]

Maybe this, then?

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult (D)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult (VD)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging (C)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging (VC)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only (FMO)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only (FGO)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

Yes! This is perfect! Doesn't stray too far off the original one and keeps the harder songs grouped together to tell if low/high.

[BahamutZER0]

Not a fan of reusing the name for multiple difficulties, if you're really that concerned about supporting the legacy (so to speak) difficulty names I don't see what's wrong with using a + or something just so you can tell them apart.

I'd rather if we were going to bother to revamp the difficulty system we didn't choose a naming scheme just on the basis of preserving the old names though, because without that requirement no one would ever choose this setup with or without the +s over a more natural one.

[ShadowDueler97]

Some of the ideas I have are: Legendary, Impossible, Unbeatable, Insanity, Overload, and........ CHUCK NORRIS xD :D

[i love you]

From looking at this thread, it seems that we only have four options with choose from:

Go with nois-or-e (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3697306&postcount=1): Stick with what the Game Managers discussed including a few things that the community wants.

Go with Silvuh (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3699535&postcount=189): To change the naming a bit for the easier difficulties (1-14) due to inconsistency while at the same time listening to what the community wants. He even gives out two example lists of consistency names for (15-19) and even states that if those does not work then you can go with his "expert/master/guru" idea. This basically balances out the two arguments IMO.

Go with qqwref (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3701242&postcount=200): Basically to stick with original difficulty names and change the scaling system.

Go with someone who either completely changes everything or just go with someone who disagrees with everything lol

[MarioNintendo]

ps don't forget the later "suggestion'' qqwref made where he talked about just dropping the +'s

[top]

01- Easiest
02- Training
03- Beginner
04- Very Easy
05- Easy
06- Light
07- Moderate
08- Standard
09- Tricky
10- Very Tricky
---
11- Difficult
12- Very Difficult
13- Challenging
14- Very Challenging
15- Expert
16- Master
17- Guru
18- Brutal
19- Ridiculous
20- ???

the ONLY thing i think is a bit weird is the 2nd difficulty, "Training." nothing else bothers me but that and i can't think of anything to switch it out with but "Simplistic." but that doesn't sound exactly right either.
Anybody else share my thoughts on this?

[Jerry DB]

the ONLY thing i think is a bit weird is the 2nd difficulty, "Training." nothing else bothers me but that and i can't think of anything to switch it out with but "Simplistic." but that doesn't sound exactly right either.
Anybody else share my thoughts on this?

I agree



effortless or gentle could maybe fit the slot for training?
I don't really know but after training gets fixed i think that looks great

[bmah]

As easy as a level 2 song is, "effortless" really describes an experience that varies from one person to another. A newbie may not consider a level 2 as effortless, while he/she practices on level 1 songs. Same goes with the "gentle" descriptor.

However, if anyone has a better name for "training", that'd be good since it honestly sounds a bit weird too.

[One Winged Angel]

I still think removing Training, shifting Beginner down to 2, and inserting Novice before or after Very Easy and Easy is the best option to go with if we're going with Jae's list, the rest is pretty much spot-on

[bmah]

Yeah, I like Novice, even though what exactly a novice is falls in the eyes of the beholder. But at least it sounds better than training.

[Hizack]

Why do we even need a name for each?

Why is "FMO" a clearer way to tell a difficulty-11 song? I don't see why we don't call it a "D11" song instead.

If a difficulty-2 song is "for beginners", how about a difficulty-1 song? For whom are difficulty-1 songs?

I think those labels are just making things more confusing.





01 - D1
02 - D2
03 - D3
04 - D4
05 - D5
06 - D6
07 - D7
08 - D8
09 - D9
10 - D10
11 - D11
12 - D12
13 - D13
14 - D14
15 - D15
16 - D16
17 - D17
18 - D18
19 - D19
20 - D20

[MarioNintendo]

Why do we even need a name for each?

Why is "FMO" a clearer way to tell a difficulty-11 song? I don't see why we don't call it a "D11" song instead.

If a difficulty-2 song is "for beginners", how about a difficulty-1 song? For whom are difficulty-1 songs?

I think those labels are just making things more confusing.

Kinda agree with that, after all. When I play the ~OfFiCiAl DDR by Konami~, they only have numbers (1-12 feet). The only reason why they put beginner/easy/standard/heavy/oni is because they had to differentiate the difficulties on the same song, which we already do here by using the same terms (ex: Sunless Daybreak [Heavy]).

:P Just a thought

[top]

yeah, there's that thought, but didn't nois-or-e (forgive me if I'm incorrect) say that we were trying to keep the traditional naming scheme? that's the only reason the D1-D20 idea is probably going to get shot down.

I personally wouldn't mind that either.

[i love you]

yeah, there's that thought, but didn't nois-or-e (forgive me if I'm incorrect) say that we were trying to keep the traditional naming scheme?If this were true then he should have went with qqwref's plan XD

Personally, if you want to keep the original names, qqwref's idea would be best.

If you want to keep the original names but at the same time remove the "For __ only" names and stuff that majority supports, nois-or-e's plan would be best.

If you want a consistency of the difficulty names from 1-14 but at the same time, include "expert, master and guru" for 15-17 and most likely "brutal and relentless" for 18-19, (which is also stuff that most of the community supports), Silvuh's idea would be best.

[jimerax]

Thoughts:

- Can "Beginner" and "Novice" co-exist? because they have similar meaning, if not exactly the same. "Beginner" sounds easier, though.
- "Light" "Standard" "Heavy" are used for the description of different charts, also "Standard" is already in old rating system, so they might be arguable.
- If we insert something after "Challenging", "Demanding" or "Intense"?
- We may need to confirm a few words that are widely-tolerated for hardest part. Currently it looks "Brutal", "Ridiculous", "Legendary", "Insane", "???" are supported by some people here.

[VisD]

Thoughts:

- Can "Beginner" and "Novice" co-exist? because they have similar meaning, if not exactly the same. "Beginner" sounds easier, though.
- "Light" "Standard" "Heavy" are used for the description of different charts, also "Standard" is already in old rating system, so they might be arguable.
- If we insert something after "Challenging", "Demanding" or "Intense"?
- We may need to confirm a few words that are widely-tolerated for hardest part. Currently it looks "Brutal", "Ridiculous", "Legendary", "Insane", "???" are supported by some people here.

-Novice does imply something slightly more difficult than Beginner...they're fine appearing together imo

-INTENSE

[richyrich55]

20- For ThaoR's only

Fixed. And come on, you know you want to put "For ThaoR's Only" do it for the lols.

[popsicle_3000]

for who??

[TheSaxRunner05]

Maybe this, then?

01- Easiest
02- For Beginners
03- Very Easy
04- Easy
05- Standard
06- Tricky
07- Difficult (D)
08- Difficult (D)
09- Very Difficult (VD)
10- Very Difficult (VD)
11- Challenging (C)
12- Challenging (C)
13- Very Challenging (VC)
14- Very Challenging (VC)
15- For Masters Only (FMO)
16- For Masters Only (FMO)
17- For Gurus Only (FGO)
18- For Gurus Only (FGO)
19- Brutal
20- Insane

That, but change 19 to legendary

[U.N. Owen]

for who??St. Scarhand AAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hhPnI7RSfY)
Fury of the Storm AAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF8B5mQrjM0)

Vids are 4 years old. They're still nasty by today's standards.

On topic: Really like the list in the op. Though Training sounds a tad awkward.

[i will pwn u]

I like maybe adding intense and this word is weird but could go after beginner..
TYRO -a beginner in learning : novice
or maybe one of these

Definition: person unskilled in something
Synonyms: abecedarian, amateur, apprentice, buckwheater, catechumen, colt, fish*, fledgling, greenhorn, greenie, initiate, learner, neophyte, new kid on the block, newcomer, novice, novitiate, probationer, recruit, starter, student, tenderfoot, trainee

i just copied and pasted and know a few have been said but w/e good to see them as a whole xD

[qqwref]

01- Abedecarian
02- Amateur
03- Apprentice
04- Beginner
05- Colt
06- Fledgling
07- Greenhorn
08- Initiate
09- Neophyte
10- New Kid on the Block
11- Newbie
12- Newcomer
13- Novice
14- Pupil
15- Recruit
16- Rookie
17- Starter
18- Student
19- Trainee
20- For Dossar Only

[nois-or-e]

We've swapped out training, moved beginner down one and put novice into where beginner was.

Seems the final discussion before this goes live is if we really need to change Ridiculous.

The charts that will fall under the Ridiculous label are:

RATO
--
Death Piano
--
party 4u -holy nite mix-
--
Metro
Revolutionary Etude
--
do I smile?
Rave7
--
Crowdpleaser
The wisest were wrong
--
Winter Wind Etude
Husigi Usagi Milk Tei



Any suggestions? Things like Legendary reference something awesome/great, not something difficult. Currently the fact that to 99.9% of the community the above charts are Ridiculously hard seems to be the clincher...

[Coolboyrulez0]

Impossible / Godly / Insane

[bmah]

Impossible / Godly / Insane

Impossible: a term that's clearly untrue in this game for at least the sake of passing (e.g. many have passed vROFL). I wouldn't use this because rarely is this word ever true.

Godly: I don't mind this as much. But the thing that itches me is that Godly in this case refers to the player's ability, and that is sorta assumed as such because a person playing a song of this difficulty must be "Godly", right? Nope. You can be a crap player and play this song. We need a term that is specific to the song itself.

Insane: Yeah, this one would fit.

So I don't really mind insane or ridiculous. Both seems to work fine. *shrugs*

[popsicle_3000]

I like legendary. It goes w/ the master/guru and is the next step above that i think.

[Silvuh]

Too many things to respond to. Sorry that this is going to be a disorganized mess.

Insane: Yeah, this one would fit.
The problem with exchanging "Ridiculous" with "Insane" is that it doesn't fix the problem. That's just replacing one "crazy" word with another. I didn't use "Insane" in my previous post (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3699535&postcount=189), because it is too close to "Intense" ... But because it seems like that suggestion won't be implemented, "Insane" would be a good word to switch with "Brutal". But more people have been in favor of removing "Ridiculous" and keeping "Brutal".
- We may need to confirm a few words that are widely-tolerated for hardest part. Currently it looks "Brutal", "Ridiculous", "Legendary", "Insane", "???" are supported by some people here.
My suggestion to use "Relentless/Ruthless" with "Brutal" got some support, too. And it's not that "???" was widely supported, it's that it was already said that it's not going to change, so people didn't change it in their lists.

Godly: I don't mind this as much. But the thing that itches me is that Godly in this case refers to the player's ability, and that is sorta assumed as such because a person playing a song of this difficulty must be "Godly", right? Nope. You can be a crap player and play this song. We need a term that is specific to the song itself.
This is the same argument that can be used against all the other rank words, but the appeal to tradition has overridden it in favor of keeping "Master" and "Guru" on the list. So if those aren't moving, why not add a couple more? If we do this, we go back to the old suggestion of using "Divine" after "Legendary", but that whole thing has already been debunked:
If we're going to keep terms like "Master" and "Guru", "Legend" and "Divine" are good words to use past them to stay in the same theme.
The opinions of all 3 Game Managers is that we keep them to varying levels of difficulty, straying away from utilising words that define the ability required. If FFR had an exp. point based levelling system, the titles that yourself and Subin have provided would be perfect. But in the way of accurately defining the level of difficulty of files, we don't think that they are very suitable.
But we seem to be okay with adding "Expert" despite all this for some reason. I don't understand this and I'm not going to try to.

Next:
I think we can shift the actual difficulty of a name for harder side by a bit, due to improvement of the engine and skill boost of people.
This argument is irritating me more now than when Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] became harder to unlock. That only affected those players around that skill level back then, but pushing all of the difficulties up the scale affects everyone, and everyone has not been skill-boosting.

This may start from the "Should 11 be Difficult or "Challenging?" discussion.
There wasn't much actual discussion on this subject; it has just been people putting it one way or another in their lists and others agreeing or not. Originally, the OP had "Challenging" on 11, but a lot of people suggested "Difficult" be there in their lists without giving their reasoning why. (Maybe it was because the first list had already filled in 1-10 with other words, so people put "Difficult" in at 11 to move down "Challenging" and push "Demanding" out. But that reasoning ignores all the other issues.) So here's the way I see it right now:

Difficult
Pros:
- Reflects the skill boots a few notable players in the community have achieved.
- Fewer new "Hard" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.
Cons:
- Ignores the rest of the community that has not been skill-boosting: new and lower-division players who have not been gaining much skill are kicked down a few notches.
- More "Easy" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.

Challenging
Pros:
- More closely reflects the current difficulty list. Wanting the new list to be in line with the old list is an appeal to tradition, which isn't an argument in itself, but the "pro" here is that it's more encouraging to newer players.
- Fewer new "Easy" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.
Cons:
- More new "Hard" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list, which there has been less agreement on.

- Can "Beginner" and "Novice" co-exist? because they have similar meaning, if not exactly the same. "Beginner" sounds easier, though.
I agree that beginner sounds easier, but that doesn't change the fact the words mean the same thing. The dwi/ddr words "Simple" and "Basic" would be good to use somewhere in there. I didn't use them in my previous list because I wanted to minimize the number of "Easy" words. But that's just another suggestion of mine that hasn't seemed to get enough support.

- "Light" "Standard" "Heavy" are used for the description of different charts, also "Standard" is already in old rating system, so they might be arguable.
Sadly, no one wants to argue against the use of these words anymore.

- If we insert something after "Challenging", "Demanding" or "Intense"?
I'd think if there was any chance of this happening, Jae would have put it in one of his lists since the overwhelming disapproval of "Demanding" and "Very Demanding". "Intense" sounds better than "Demanding", though, and there's been some support for that. The main issue I see with the word "Intense" is that we wouldn't be able to use it with "Insane".


Here are a couple polls. Too bad I can't paste in the HTML vote box thing. These links aren't as attention-grabbing. I would appreciate it if these polls could be put into the OP to make sure they're seen ... if you decide they'll be useful.

Should difficulty 11 be "Challenging" or "Difficult"? (http://poll.pollcode.com/0ui6)

(Assuming difficulties 15–17 will be Expert, Master, and Guru)
What should difficulties 18 and 19 be? (http://poll.pollcode.com/wf1sq) (If you click a "something else" option, post your suggestion.)

They might not be the most important questions, but it'd be interesting to see what more people think.

[rayword45]

We've swapped out training, moved beginner down one and put novice into where beginner was.

Seems the final discussion before this goes live is if we really need to change Ridiculous.

The charts that will fall under the Ridiculous label are:

RATO
--
Death Piano
--
party 4u -holy nite mix-
--
Metro
Revolutionary Etude
--
do I smile?
Rave7
--
Crowdpleaser
The wisest were wrong
--
Winter Wind Etude
Husigi Usagi Milk Tei



Any suggestions? Things like Legendary reference something awesome/great, not something difficult. Currently the fact that to 99.9% of the community the above charts are Ridiculously hard seems to be the clincher...

Almost There could be a contender, but Dossar doesn't like that idea.

If WWE and Husigi are contenders, then I vouch for A Quick Death

[nois-or-e]

AQD is ranked within the highest 18 sub-group.