Are we ever to become a Type III civilization?

[Reincarnate]

ITT we discuss the implications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

[rushyrulz]

We can't even harness the energy from lightning, I don't think we'll ever get to type 2 let alone type 3.

[who_cares973]

might want to add a link to the different types of civilizations

[Reincarnate]

We're something like a Type .72 or so atm

I feel like the major chokepoint will be whether or not we figure out how to gtfo Earth. One huge obstacle I see is the cost. I see it as hard to justify persuading people to leave Earth to go start all over on some distant world unless Earth is entering shithole status all-around.

[rushyrulz]

United States space program isn't looking too great. Go Russia! Maybe we'll get to .73 with them.

[Phynx]

tl;dr - Forgive my horrible English in the following statements.

Predictions of over 100,000 years in order to be at a point where we MIGHT achieve type III.... um yeah lol. Good luck earth on reaching Type II let alone III.

As for reaching Type I, I would agree with Rube, the ability to inhabit other worlds would be a step onto that stairway. But I would also say we could achieve Type I if we could produce computers capable of true A.I. to the point where they could research and develope at or beyond our levels of the current time they existed. Given the expansion onto say, Mars, we would be open to a whole new industry of research possibilities. Not only that but Mars is completely untapped of resources so we have a rather bottomless amount of resources at our disposal for furthering our expansion as a civilization.

Now Type I might also be achieved, in my mind, if we managed to colonize space. Something like you'd see in cartoons or animes. Big fortresses and cities in space where people thrive on artificial gravity and hydroponic gardens. All three of these Type I solutions are highly feasible in our modern age. We have the know-how(cept with the whole, true artificial gravity thing) and the ability to construct such endeavors. Our biggest blockade is both money and social support. It seems like nowadays if any ideas of an amazing conquest of Mars comes up there are a 10,000,000 to 1 countup of people against the idea. I say **** you guys who say no. Just do it already. It's in our future why not make it the now?

All in all, we have the tech now to show off a presentation to space, it just boils down to the world coming together instead as a race against nations to do it first but collaborate 100% into the project as a whole and achieve greater results through international connections.

[Izzy]

I don't think humans will ever achieve anything beyond a Type I civilization. Even when the whole earth is turning in an uninhabitable wasteland I feel like the jump to space colonization will just be far to great to ever be achieved.

I guess in 500 years or so you can say "I told you so" if you want once I'm wrong.

[Poison-]

I highly doubt humanity will ever reach Type II. The 0.01 estimated improvement on the Kardashev scale from 2010 to 2030 sort of depresses me. I believe that humanity isn't really focused on leaving Earth, like Reincarnate said, the cost is astronomical, just to get off of Earth, let alone resettle on another planet, that is if we can even find a way to settle on another planet.

[Zageron]

Type I and II will be achieved in the next 10,000 years if humanity is still around.
Type III will never be achieved, or will take millions of years, and require quintillions (if not more) humans inhabiting the entire galaxy. (As well as other galaxies)

[Poison-]

Damn I wish i could just stick around and find out ;)

[qqwref]

I don't think we know enough about the universe to be sure Type III civilizations are even theoretically possible.

In other news, manned spaceflight is pointless until we move beyond "shoot stuff out the back" type rockets.

[SocoNhydro421]

If anyone has any idea of the vastness of a single galaxy, they would know type III is way beyond anything we can even think about at the moment. Harvesting a stars worth of energy is a task in itself, let alone trillions of stars haha.

[alloyus]

If the human race survives, then I think it's always going to continue improving, maybe even into something like type 3.

[Reincarnate]

I think becoming Type I is definitely something we'll eventually achieve. But to become Type II, we'd have to either harness our sun more aggressively or figure out how to reach other stars. The nearest one is like 4 light years from us, so interstellar travel is already going to pose a challenge there.

In other words, once we start looking into traversing space, I think we're honestly ****ed. I really, really hope I'm wrong and that someday I turn out to be one of those pessimists who didn't see it coming much like the world underestimated how big the computer would be.

[alloyus]

Well I don't think any of us are actually going to be able to see if we're right or wrong xD Even Type I is predicted to take 100-200 years, I just think that if the time is given that we'll be able to make it far, far into the future.

[Phynx]

I dunno, don't cut down humans ability to improve just yet. We're driven by innovation so based on that philosophy we're bound(if we survive by our own hands) to become Type I+ at any point in time. There are many mediums we have yet to explore in terms of improving critical systems to their maximums. Of course we could be eons away from the research being done to discover these "mediums" potential usages but hey, we'll get there one way or another.

This is going out on a far limb but maybe even a more advanced civilization will show us some new tricks one day. :P

[awein999]

If we can get to type II we should eventually be able to get to type III if it is indeed possible. The path to type II is long and arduous and it is probably very unlikely for us to progress that far . But if we do make it to type II we are not going to destroy ourselves from that point on.

[PlayTrumpet]

I remember stumbling upon this a while ago. My personal guess is that we won't be able to reach Type II due to lack of resources/technology and/or we will have died out before we do.

[EzExZeRo7497]

We can reach Type I, probably in around 400-1,200 years time. If humans are able to reach other planets, it'll be Type I, hands down.
Type II? I don't think we can exist for that long?
Type III? Impossible.

[Reach]

Highly unlikely.

Sadly it looks like it's going to be unlikely a cheap and easy way of FTL travel will ever develop. This makes reaching Type 3 impossible.

It essentially makes Type 2 impossible as well. At the rate we're going, we'll probably deplete all of our current resources we have left on Earth in around 1000 years. This of course doesn't factor in other energy resources we rely on in the future, but between gas, coal and nuclear, we have a pretty limited supply.

There's simply not enough to sustain us for long periods of time, and with the inability to quickly move from solar system to solar system, this pretty much caps our production capacity. It is going to make it nearly impossible to engage in intergalactic travel because it is going to be too expensive and too impractical to gather the resources and time necessary to make the trip. We'll be too concerned with our own survival here at that point through alternative energy forms.

[Reincarnate]

Yeah, interstellar/intergalactic travel is the biggie IMO. The distances between stars and galaxies are simply too vast. I feel like the only civilizations capable of making the leap to that kind of travel are those who are already in solar systems that have won the lottery: Having multiple inhabitable planets within reasonable distances.

Either that or we figure out wormhole technology if wormholes are even possible. While wormholes may be viable solutions to Einstein's equations, that doesn't mean they exist.

[Reach]

Yeah, interstellar/intergalactic travel is the biggie IMO. The distances between stars and galaxies are simply too vast. I feel like the only civilizations capable of making the leap to that kind of travel are those who are already in solar systems that have won the lottery: Having multiple inhabitable planets within reasonable distances.

Either that or we figure out wormhole technology if wormholes are even possible. While wormholes may be viable solutions to Einstein's equations, that doesn't mean they exist.

Well, assuming they exist and can be made, even then that doesn't necessarily imply they can be made cheaply and easily, which will be the ultimate factor here. Given how much resource it takes to simply take a shuttle into orbit now, I can only imagine how much we would need to invest into a worm hole trip.

It might be a one time deal, or something we do only for colonization, and at that point the planning and the money you would need to put into it would again put a huge cap on our energy resources (we're not talking billion dollar investments anymore, moving that many people we're talking trillions).


There's just nowhere readily feasible to get the energy we would need for such a thing. We'd have to hope we can perform some sort of magic voodoo in the future and tap directly into zero point energy while violating conservation of energy or something, because every other alternative is going to turn up pretty much moot in respect to FTL travel D:

Fusion/antimatter rockets could reach *near* c speeds, but that's not going to get us past Type 1. Sure, it might help us survive, but even then, distant planets are going to take generations to reach and people will have to be cryogenically frozen until arrival...by the time they get there everyone on Earth would be gone themselves or dead, preventing advancement to the next civilization type yet again.


tldr; unless a miracle happens, we'll be lucky to scrape past Type 1.

[Reincarnate]

Yeah, apparently to open and maintain the throat of a wormhole 1 meter in diameter, you'd need a negative mass (exotic matter) the size of Jupiter.

[ffraxis]

we are not even half way to type I.

maybe in a couple millennium if we don't kill ourselves first and work together.

also quick reference: people do not have the capability to harness an element like hydrogen to the maximum potential yet, let alone travel through space at speeds equal to or less then light speed.

technically if you can move space around you through some x factor that i do not know about, you could travel faster than light speed.

but seriously we gotta fix up earth before accomplishing any of this, otherwise whats the point? we go around the universe and start shitting everything up