fuck Georgia

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

Is it possible one of these two things might infuriate you more?

it's interesting to think about what kind of laws were once considered outrageous but over time have evolved a sense of feeling normalized were it's no longer a question or a care.

The desire to subjugate women part infuriates me more, of course. The reason why should be self-evident.

The religious dogma is ridiculous since the Bible doesn't even take a stance on abortion at all. Christians will preach about the sanctity of life and that life is sacred because of its connection to God but the New Testament makes no statement about "when life begins." The Old Testament makes several references to life beginning with "breath" (Genesis) and, in Exodus, a miscarriage was treated via a financial penalty, not lex talionis. There's a commonly cited passage in Deuteronomy which is used as a tacit disapproval of abortion, but even so, Jesus dying in the New Testament served to absolve all of his believers from Mosaic law (i.e. the Law of Moses as described in the Old Testament, this is why we can eat shellfish now despite being banned in Leviticus).

And SOMEHOW, abortion has become a major talking point for them, despite no passages unambiguously denouncing abortion. There ARE, however, plenty of passages describing the subordination of wives to their husbands, which seems to be a consistent theme in Christian rhetoric.

So yeah, there's an agenda here.

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

you know the only thing worse than people who complain about things that don't matter are people who complain about things that do matter and then don't do anything about it

1) This is a false dichotomy, you can complain about things that matter and also do something about it. (Activism, contributing to culture)

2) There's no doubt this is an echo chamber but it serves a positive purpose, to relieve frustration and find solidarity when it seems like the world is going crazy around us.

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

It's something that would probably be considered with the legal crap out of the way.

Like stated earlier it would be an added option and the woman could give it up for adoption (and like I stated earlier, it would be good to also discuss a plan about improving foster care and encouraging adoption to help kids not stay in it). I can still see the benefit:
- Does not replace medical or surgical abortions. It is another type of abortion that can still salvage the fetus. If a woman doesn't want to do that, that's her choice.
- It can give a better idea of what a fetus actually needs to develop. Whatever knowledge is obtained could help reduce fetal abnormalities. (Of course there are genetics and other factors involved)

The last paragraph sounds very similar to adoption, although it does hammer home the point that the people we are talking about are women with real emotions and feelings, and going through a pregnancy can be physically and mentally traumatic. Any person who treats pregnancy like an insignificant theoretical topic is degrading the woman, to say the least.

I understand this attitude of "reaching across the aisle to reach a mutual conclusion", but I say fuck that. The solution to intolerance isn't tolerance: finding a way to save the fetuses isn't going to correct the underlying biases of the opposition. History has shown that these people aren't willing to compromise. And why should we? All signs point to a culture war, we might as well obtain an uncompromising victory and use that as a basis for establishing a more modern set of morality, one distinct from church.

[rayword45]

Re: fuck Georgia

mina is bitching about 14 year olds not being able to get abortions in random non-ny states affecting new yorks senatorial race

[aperson]

Re: fuck Georgia

you know the only thing worse than people who complain about things that don't matter are people who complain about things that do matter and then don't do anything about it

on a note more related to the topic of the thread, this legislation does have practical impact on my living as a male in new york

gilliabrand is going to milk the shit out of it and maybe even get a boost from doing so but it's mostly going to remind me of how flagrantly she lied when she declared she wouldn't run for president 2 weeks before midterms and then not 2 months later declared an exploratory committee, which of course, she had to have most of the pieces in/falling into place around, i don't know, probably 2 weeks before mid terms

and then that's going to remind me about how everyone laughs it off like starting your presidential campaign by flatly lying about the fact that you are going to have one is just some giggle worthy thing that we expect elected representatives to do and of course nobody is going to hold her to account for it

and that annoys me and maybe even makes me a little angry, but then i realize that's why half the population doesn't give a shit about government or civics or exercising the voting rights most people in the world don't have, limited as they potentially may be

because it's all full of shit, and enabling people who are full of shit makes you full of shit, and then what you get is a government of shit which you deserve

either you care and it matters to you and you do something about it, or you don't

binary choice

full disclosure i didn't read any of the thread i just wanted to whine about my senator and im like really bored

Gillibrand is trash and flip-flops to try to read the wind on the electorate. Her phony pivot where she pulled sponsorship on S.720 Anti-Israel Boycott Act is all the evidence you need. Not sure why you need to keep searching.

Also not sure why you need to make this thread about Gillibrand or about you. It's about women having their bodily autonomy repeatedly denied by a GOP government that's steered by evangelical Christians. Maybe get your narcissism checked out?

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

I understand this attitude of "reaching across the aisle to reach a mutual conclusion", but I say fuck that. The solution to intolerance isn't tolerance: finding a way to save the fetuses isn't going to correct the underlying biases of the opposition. History has shown that these people aren't willing to compromise. And why should we? All signs point to a culture war, we might as well obtain an uncompromising victory and use that as a basis for establishing a more modern set of morality, one distinct from church.

Man, what a coincidence. I was talking about this very topic with a co-worker today. He mentioned how he's a Christian and that people of his faith are taught abortion is murder (kind of relates to your post here).

Then he went on about the following point: Even if someone brings forward convincing arguments, facts, whatever -- that ultimately doesn't matter. If it's seen as an attack on the faith, it's essentially an attack of everything that person knows. And especially if it's "against the word of God".

So in other words, it doesn't even matter what the purpose is. There is this ongoing legal battle that is done just because. You'll hear statements like "stop killing babies!" from vocal pro-life people but then not hear about goals or actions.

I posted a question about how a ban on abortion would play out, with the assumption that the legislation stays in place. Every response I got was from a pro-choice person.

You've got all these legal battles going on to make abortion illegal, yet no pro-life person seems to discuss how it's going to end up. It's fighting for a cause without taking into account the effects of the actions. You'll have these same pro-life people saying "actions have consequences" and then disappearing when anyone asks about how it would play out.

Don't get me wrong -- I still keep an open mind about this subject. It's heartbreaking to see so much time, money, and effort spent on something in a courtroom that could instead be an opportunity to collaborate on.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: fuck Georgia

my mom's pro-life because of religion so i agree with that take wholeheartedly. we talked about it for the first time recently because of all these states taking a dump. my clearly stating i was pro-choice made her uncomfortable

i've been thinking that challenging roe vs. wade like this could be a political diversionary tactic. like, it's an important issue, but there are other things that the government's trying to do at the same time that are more contentious (e.g. they're trying to fight with iran y'all)

2) There's no doubt this is an echo chamber but it serves a positive purpose, to relieve frustration and find solidarity when it seems like the world is going crazy around us.

echo chambers can be good but they're also harmful in a sense, which i know you know. those who actively use the forums on ffr tend to think the same way and trash on those who don't. the world's likely not going crazy /now/ per se; this is a movement that's been going on for a while. only to people who are around other pro-choice people all the time (admittedly i am myself) will this seem like it's coming out of nowhere

[the sun fan]

Re: fuck Georgia

I know it doesnt look this way but this was Mina trying to be nice, at least I think it was

[V-Ormix]

Re: fuck Georgia

we might as well obtain an uncompromising victory and use that as a basis for establishing a more modern set of morality, one distinct from church.

Well everyone is going to do what they want to do more or less - and we could only wish there was some sound logic to a majority equating into *fairness* in a paradigm driven world.

I think we can acknowledge there to be no surprise as much as we want no part in this world controlling some one else quite the opposite has to be true in universal contrast and relative to subsequent reality how various channels come into contact with each other.

I had asked the previous question to you from a bias and saturated vantage point only with the intent to extend the dialog away from vitriol and to share thoughts of potential nuance in an as you say a crazy world around us.

[aperson]

Re: fuck Georgia

I posted a question about how a ban on abortion would play out, with the assumption that the legislation stays in place. Every response I got was from a pro-choice person.

Two pathways:

1. Present legislation where killing a fetus is equivalent to murder then bring the decision to the supreme court to de facto overturn Roe v. Wade by fucking up its balancing test.

2. Find some way to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut (and as a corollary make contraceptives illegal entirely which evangelical christians as a voting bloc are also for)

[the sun fan]

Re: fuck Georgia

the governor's female

"this one's gotta be a free veto," i would say, feigning optimism

Lmao
Nah

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

echo chambers can be good but they're also harmful in a sense, which i know you know. those who actively use the forums on ffr tend to think the same way and trash on those who don't. the world's likely not going crazy /now/ per se; this is a movement that's been going on for a while. only to people who are around other pro-choice people all the time (admittedly i am myself) will this seem like it's coming out of nowhere

There was someone who published an article about how obnoxious the debate is, and this was 1992. It's been almost half a century since Roe V Wade was passed.

Also I don't think this was the point of your post, although this thread doesn't really resemble an echo chamber (at least, from what I've seen online). Echo chambers tend to just be a massive dumpster fire of insults, where as in this thread there was a lot of criticism although in a thoughtful way -- even if it was from people who are of a similar perspective. I also keep an open mind with anyone that identifies as pro-life. Although if you ask me, the whole pro-choice/pro-life labeling should go away in an ideal world. Any time I come across "ANTI-CHOICE FORCED BIRTHER!" and "PRO-DEATH BABY KILLER!" post chains, I immediately leave. It's seriously not worth it.

[V-Ormix]

Re: fuck Georgia

(e.g. they're trying to fight with iran y'all)

You never know when debates like these will be a thing of the past in a non hypothetical and truly unforgiving way.

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

legalize bernie

[aperson]

Re: fuck Georgia

the governor's female

"this one's gotta be a free veto," i would say, feigning optimism

https://twitter.com/GovernorKayIvey/status/1128781312750432262