FFR poker league -dead-

[lumphoboextreme]

yeah that's about how it works over here. last year i only made like 4,000$ so i didn't have to pay taxes but once im over like 7000? thats when i have to start paying tax on it if i have to. idk how they would figure out i had that money anyway, it's sent from overseas in an offshore bank account and it's not like it's registered income or anything.

EDIT: badass. i'm now ranked #16 in the world for any poker site 6 man games any stakes total profit in 2011. :O

[Wyde]

Signed up for the club out of interest despite being shit at the game. I'm hoping I can learn from decent players so that I can win money off of friends later on in life.

WIll be using the name "Howd Wyde" cuz the short version was taken already.

[Reincarnate]

My girlfriend is an auditor (albeit not for personal taxes). Trust me -- you don't want to get audited only to find that a bunch of stuff doesn't tie out properly. You'll get screwed hard.

[leonid]

so marcus how is your learning hold'em rules going

[Reincarnate]

Reach and I discussed a bunch of stuff over FB the other day. I went ahead and memorized the Poker hands (and made sure my combinatorics made sense and were consistent with the displayed probabilities)... but now I just need to know htf to play

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Reach and I discussed a bunch of stuff over FB the other day. I went ahead and memorized the Poker hands (and made sure my combinatorics made sense and were consistent with the displayed probabilities)... but now I just need to know htf to play

I sent you a link to a site you can use to practice playing by yourself. You'll figure out a lot via trial and error.

Download the client I linked you to the other day and hit me up some time and we'll play a little bit, and I'll show you some stuff. (If you need the link again just send me a message).

From there you'll have a good sense of how to play and can start practising on your own. At that point I think it's probably best to learn via videos, but you'll also want to read all of that shit I sent you the other day (The hold'em strategy site covers pretty much everything you'll ever need to know).

[Reincarnate]

What I found pretty disgusting:

One Pair: Two cards with the same rank X and three kickers with different, non-X ranks.
(suit combos)*(rank combos)/(total combos) =
(4 choose 2)*(4 choose 1)^3*(13 choose 1)*(12 choose 3)/(52 choose 5) = 0.422569028

High Card: All cards are of different rank (so no pairs), they're not all the same suit (so no flush), and they're not in sequence (so no straight).
(suit combos)*(rank combos)/(total combos) =
((4 choose 1)^5-4)*((13 choose 5)-10)/(52 choose 5) = 0.501177394

which means 0.501177394 + 0.422569028 = 0.923746422 = 92% of the time, we're dealing with a pair at best

[Reach]

Yes, that's exactly right.

You have to remember though, you only need to have a better hand than your opponent to win a pot. It's all relative.

Also, sometimes you don't need a hand at all if your opponent folds.


With that said, if you're a big hand junkie, after learning hold'em you can pick up omaha almost instantly, and flopping big hands in that game is pretty commonplace. However, the variance in that game is sickening, so I don't recommend it to anyone that doesn't like to gamble.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

What I found pretty disgusting:

One Pair: Two cards with the same rank X and three kickers with different, non-X ranks.
(suit combos)*(rank combos)/(total combos) =
(4 choose 2)*(4 choose 1)^3*(13 choose 1)*(12 choose 3)/(52 choose 5) = 0.422569028

High Card: All cards are of different rank (so no pairs), they're not all the same suit (so no flush), and they're not in sequence (so no straight).
(suit combos)*(rank combos)/(total combos) =
((4 choose 1)^5-4)*((13 choose 5)-10)/(52 choose 5) = 0.501177394

which means 0.501177394 + 0.422569028 = 0.923746422 = 92% of the time, we're dealing with a pair at best

And in 9 handed play 92.37/9=10.26% 100-10.26=89.74% chance that if all 9 people stay in the hand at least one person will have better than a pair.

This evidence suggests that when we play a hand, we do not want a lot of people to stay to the river unless we expect to get a hand that beats everyone else. That's why your position at the table is crucial.

[nois-or-e]

No-one is playing the first $ game :c

[Ksl33zy24]

Originally Posted by nois-or-e

No-one is playing the first $ game :c

wish I could

[Without A Contraceptive]

Originally Posted by Reach

I play 1/2 at the casino here every once in awhile and I can tell you right now it's a lot softer than 0.25/0.5 online. Hell, it's softer than 0.1/0.25.

It's pretty easy to spot the fish and avoid the sharks, and people are pretty spewy.

Only problem is the rake can be pretty brutal, depending on where you're at.

word i bet... ive played 2/4 on a cruise and it was a joke. only time ive seen a casino poker room was this past christmas, i was flying out of reno. people were reloading for $50 and $100 at $2/5, there wasnt a single $5 chip on the $1/1 table, it was a ****ing joke. if i was 21 i would have sat and Crushed it. the few 2/5 hands i watched were terrible, people limp calling $25 raises and check folding when they had $60 left...

i play 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 live regularly and making money is definitely easier, for me at least, there than in any online game. i play a pretty spewey game myself tho so i can get in trouble if i start to get tilted off...

oesd busted up my set after i lead out a pot sized bet two nights ago and i was superSteamed. next hand i raised to $5 ($1/1 6 handed) with j4o, flop AJ4 and i doubled through AT or something. next hand i was still tilted i was losing around 2, i raise utg to $4 with JQo flop J82 all clubs, i have the Q of clubs... i bet $7, du in MP calls, turn Jdiamonds, i bet $24, call, river Qs i snap ship it for my last $37 and dude calls he had 8s full OOps. that was the start of a pretty sick chip run

pokers fun

[DotKritic]

Just now saw this...signed up just in case.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Without A Contraceptive

oesd busted up my set after i lead out a pot sized bet two nights ago and i was superSteamed. next hand i raised to $5 ($1/1 6 handed) with j4o, flop AJ4 and i doubled through AT or something. next hand i was still tilted i was losing around 2, i raise utg to $4 with JQo flop J82 all clubs, i have the Q of clubs... i bet $7, du in MP calls, turn Jdiamonds, i bet $24, call, river Qs i snap ship it for my last $37 and dude calls he had 8s full OOps. that was the start of a pretty sick chip run

pokers fun

JQ hand was pretty standard man, sucks. Don't know why buddy let so many off though. Should raise flop and shove turn with 3 clubs.

I've seen some epic bad people at the casino. I had a pretty weird live hand once. Was up to $400 on the 1/2 table and really wanted to leave. I hate sitting that deep around aggro donks, but I picked up JJ I think under the gun so I raised another one up and got some callers. Flop comes like, T98 rainbow, I bet it and get one caller on the button. Turn comes a 2, I bet he calls again. River, a 9. Not sure if I should c/c here, but I bet for value and he just snap calls.

So I'm like nice he has a T and proudly turn over my hand waiting for him to muck his T, and buddy shows TT. I was so shocked I actually got up and stumbled around and then decided to leave. Before I left, he was like, man I thought for sure you had the 99 I thought I had the soul read on you.

Kinda wanted to thank him for saving me money. He was spewing the whole night and I definitely call his raise there.

[minhtam2448]

on for the next few hours, if anybody wants to do a few games with me.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by awein999

And in 9 handed play 92.37/9=10.26% 100-10.26=89.74% chance that if all 9 people stay in the hand at least one person will have better than a pair.

This evidence suggests that when we play a hand, we do not want a lot of people to stay to the river unless we expect to get a hand that beats everyone else. That's why your position at the table is crucial.

Maybe I misunderstand the rules (I still haven't gotten around to learning them, honestly), but if 0.923746422 is the probability that I get a High Card or One Pair, then the probability of having at least one person who has something better out of a group of nine people is the same as 1 - the probability that nobody has anything better out of a group of nine = 1 - probability that nine people have one-pair at best = 1 - (0.923746422^9) = 0.510249461 = 51%

Correct me if I am misunderstanding pl0x.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Maybe I misunderstand the rules (I still haven't gotten around to learning them, honestly), but if 0.923746422 is the probability that I get a High Card or One Pair, then the probability of having at least one person who has something better out of a group of nine people is the same as 1 - the probability that nobody has anything better out of a group of nine = 1 - probability that nine people have one-pair at best = 1 - (0.923746422^9) = 0.510249461 = 51%

Correct me if I am misunderstanding pl0x.

I see how your logic and your calculation makes sense but it simply does not work that way in hold'em poker. With 9 people in the hand there is a huge chance that someone has something better than just a pair by the river. (two pair, flush, straight) most likely. And I am negating the fact that the board can pair itself because everyone has what the board has.

real example 9 handed:
player 1: AQ clubs
2: 58 heart spade
3: Q7 hearts
4: 84 diamond club
5: 23 club spade
6: 3J clubs
7: A2 spade heart
8: Q6 spade diamond
9: J5 heart spade

house cards:
332 8 4
In this randomly generated example player 5 flops a full house and player 4 ended with a made two pair.

The odds of at least one person having better than a pair is an 89.74% chance by the river. My intuition agrees with this statistic. The way to know for sure is to go through enough example hands.


It's almost never true that everyone stays to the river so this is an extreme event. Honestly you need to get a feel for how people play. Thinking, planing, calculating, formulating can only take you so far without practicing.

edit: Actually my calculation method was wrong I just realized. Quite dumb of me. I'm relying on pure intuition now

[TC_Halogen]

Not sure if I'm going to be in this; sitting on a back-up laptop because my power cable for the current one I'm using decided to screw up and my laptop is at 0% charge, so I can't turn it on. I -do- have pokerstars though, so maybe I can make it. We'll see.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by awein999

I see how your logic and your calculation makes sense but it simply does not work that way in hold'em poker. With 9 people in the hand there is a huge chance that someone has something better than just a pair by the river. (two pair, flush, straight) most likely. And I am negating the fact that the board can pair itself because everyone has what the board has.

real example 9 handed:
player 1: AQ clubs
2: 58 heart spade
3: Q7 hearts
4: 84 diamond club
5: 23 club spade
6: 3J clubs
7: A2 spade heart
8: Q6 spade diamond
9: J5 heart spade

house cards:
332 8 4
In this randomly generated example player 5 flops a full house and player 4 ended with a made two pair.

The odds of at least one person having better than a pair is an 89.74% chance by the river. My intuition agrees with this statistic. The way to know for sure is to go through enough example hands.


It's almost never true that everyone stays to the river so this is an extreme event. Honestly you need to get a feel for how people play. Thinking, planing, calculating, formulating can only take you so far without practicing.

edit: Actually my calculation method was wrong I just realized. Quite dumb of me. I'm relying on pure intuition now

The probability changes when you add more cards in addition to the flop. I was talking purely in terms of any given 5 card hand-extraction. The more cards you draw on top of the bare minimum (5 cards), the greater your chances are of being able to get something out of it.

By my calculations, in a 7 card system you actually have a greater chance of hitting a pair than you would a high card alone, lol (this makes sense though).

Combined probabilities in a 7 card system: About 61.23%, so in a 9-hand game 1-(.6123)^9 = 0.9879 = 99% chance that someone's going to have better than one pair with 7 cards out (with 9 people)

God I am going to feel like shit if I am getting all of this wrong. I STILL NEED TO LEARN HTF TO PLAY AHHHH. Will need to play around with the links Reach sent.

[awein999]

I'll mess around with some play money stuff with you if you want. We can chat about it at the same time.