TWG CXXXI - Game of Champions

[Charu]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

It's more or less because he was our confirmed town @Plop

[FoJaR]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

following the reads of a confirmed town is only useful if they were well thought out, or if the player has a confirmed gut.

if you are going to look at his reads, you should probably look at everyone who is dead and town.

but again, that's only a good idea if there is actually something behind those reads.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

I'm still weary of tokzic (seems excited to have replacements but has only joked around and defended himself so far minus the angle shooting, seems like he's coasting rather than playing)

i was joking around because charu had just joined and was joking around

i'm defending myself because i feel an impending wagon today and i want to get the axe pointing at a wolf before we chop off more green heads

if it feels like i'm coasting it might have something to do with this



how about i stop playing dota and throw together a reads list for you guys

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

~ READS LIST ~

(greenest top reddest bottom)

V - My top human read. Echoing almost every thought that I have about every game event so far. If V is red then I'm going to have trust issues for the rest of my life.

J-rodd - His level of activity worries me, and he made a LOT of posts about the James May wagon for an inactive, even after it had already not happened. But he responds to a lot of the V posts that resonate with me, and I'm seeing enough red in other people that I feel okay giving him a green lean for now.

Popadop - Most of my initial suspicion on Plop was gut-based. Rereading the thread in its entirety, my gut is a lot quieter, and I still think his reads are off but I have a bad habit of mistakening wrong play for red play and I think this might be the case here, especially since his reasoning on Choof started clicking with me. You asked me how my read has evolved on you and Fiction, Popadop? Well, I think you're human.

Fojar - Currently null for me because all he's done this game is tunnel on Fiction and give very general town advice. He also fleetingly says V and Plop are wolves with no real explanation. Tough call. If I'm wrong on Fiction, Fojar's probably it.

Fiction - He seems more hesitant than usual to make reads on people - he spent the entirety of D1 refusing to make any reads at all, and at one point he even announces that he won't start making reads until D3, but he has curiously got quieter. When he DOES make reads, they're red reads on people I think/know are green, like V and Manti. He fits nicely with my two-wolves-in-the-inactives theory. And there's just something about how focussed he is on telling town not to lynch him. Most of all though, there's just something in my gut telling me he's a wolf that I'm having a hard time putting into words. I don't know how to describe it - it's nuances of his demeanor combined with our long TWG history.

Charu (or maybe Sunfan??) - These two are together because the way YoshL ragequit the game makes me believe either three town or two wolves were not playing the game, otherwise modkills would have been an easy fix to make the game functional again. James flipped red, so I think it's two wolves. You guys can call this angle shooting all you like, but it's not like I can turn my brain off and unmake a connection I'm seeing plainly. There's not enough content out of the two to make a good call yet, but the fact that many of Choof's posts pre-ragequit are questionable and Charu immediately jumped into the game with an opportunistic stab at me held up by paper-thin reasoning makes me think that he's the likelier wolf of the pair. Still, I haven't seen enough out of Tsunfun to make a good call on this yet.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

fiction until i get more syrup from the charu and sunfan trees

[Charu]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Okay, Mr. Tokzic, or Mr. Wolf.

I can kind of see the fur already. Might as well take off those clothes off so we can have a sexy party as we cut your throat for the town!

[Charu]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

fiction until i get more syrup from the charu and sunfan trees

I'll give you syrup if you catch my drift...

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

gee, manti's confirmed human and it's probably his last day of life, i can't wait for one of our best players to give us a quality thoughtdump on the game before the wolves have their way with him!!

popladop gutread

wait is that it

In the night, DarkmanticoreX2, has died. He was a Vanilla Townie.

MANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

(i know this post is late as fuck but I'M STILL FUCKING MAD)

[Charu]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Wow, manti was inactive for the game and the site is being obnoxious again.

What a shocker, Mr. Wolf.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Okay, Mr. Tokzic, or Mr. Wolf.

I can kind of see the fur already. Might as well take off those clothes off so we can have a sexy party as we cut your throat for the town!

hey charu if your flawed theory is that i'm bussing my partners how about we kill fiction instead??

wait is it because he's your partner and you'd rather kill the human first??

[Charu]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Wanna go for fiction then, buddy?

Does that mean you're partners with Plop?

Oh my!!! THE DECISIONS TO BE MADE the lustful scent of a wolf!

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Pop, I'd like to know something: How are you reading Choof/Charu? You made some posts that in retrospect made sense about Choof but now you say you think the wolves are V/Fic/James.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

no promises about not sleeping 2/3s of the next 24 hours but i'm going to set alarms so that i'm actually present for the last few hours of eod

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

okay so

1. fiction opened with saying i'm red
2. then fiction talked about how he is a mastering of reading me and waxed poetically about the tricks to reading me, but didn't come up with anything specific about what reading me meant

blind, gonna help you a bit about V and me.

The trick to reading V is determining whether or not the way he is behaving allows him to answer questions like 'will behaving like X help me get away with Y more easily?' or 'will doing X allow me to catch wolves' or 'will these sorts of posts drive people mad and is that fun for me right now?'

I see no reason why V's game now couldn't be green but this becomes clearer as he stumbles - V doesn't fall on his face as a red as he does as a green because the private chat allows him to be methodical and micromanagy - not the sort of quality he'll willingly display in the thread unless he's making power moves of his own, not something he's doing right now but something he'll likely pursue later because no matter how many opportunities V might have to not do the things I say he'll do, he'll do them anyway because being right is important to him

3. then i called him out for this and he committed to not making any reads on D1
4. after a brief argument he agreed to vote for who i said i would vote for, which was james may. he made a big thing about how the onus was on me to prove that i wasn't making a bad call.
5. then he votes for manti immediately after saying this in a couple of posts where he agrees with jrodd about killing DBP (#345 and #346)

DBP is a good practical lynch because his death will reveal information about people who voted for him.

what's weird leading up to this is this big thing about voting for who i told him to vote for, but when it's on james may, a known wolf, he switches to manti before phase end

6. then he goes on and opens up day 2 with this

My gut still says manti, followed by V and perhaps jrodd. That's lumping too many -good players- together, though. Will have to reread Zenith's posts to see if there's anything I feel those players may have caught on too that others wouldn't have. Can't assume the seer dying was random unless it doesn't seem Zenith raised blue flags high enough to get killed.

after there were numerous posts stating manti was obviously town now, and when jrodd states that manti was town. when jrodd brings this up:

and speaking of that im wondering if these people reacting now like they just went and looked at zenith's posts are legit or not, because if you were following the thread i think it was pretty obvious he was the seer, looking at you tokzic and fiction

7. fiction defends his "not realizing manti was the seer"

and I think this is the first time anyone has said it was obvious Zenith was the seer - I think we all accepted that in retrospect but you're the first to say it was obvious before he died.

You're downplaying it.

there's a subtlety here in that he is defending the case of "before he died," but jrodd had opened the phase by voting for fiction and then stating a thing about trying to pretend that the wolves might think zenith peeked fiction wolf. to me this smacks of being acutely in tune with this accusation and trying to sideshift them or mitigate thoughts surrounding the issue after he opened with what looks like a manti-was-peeked distancing vote

if you're a wolf and you've successfully killed a zenith seer, you've done it because you noticed his hints at his peek before the night phase, so one potential way to act like you're not a part of the kill is to call his peek red. jrodd had brought up this concern and fiction ignored this and chose to respond to a different point on the issue.

this looks like addressing the issue on a cursory glance, but it's a very subtle way to cherry-pick what is actually addressed.

8. then fiction "gives" his vote again after we argue once more

ok I did promise you my vote so

blind

I am a man of my word

the most interesting part of this is that when he "gave" me his vote before on james may and made it "my responsibility" to not make a bad call, he spuriously changed it to manti before the phase ended while simultaneously agreeing with jrodd about DBP... but not voting DBP

this looks incredibly like trying to keep your hands clean of the lynch, and if he had read zenith as seer with a manti blue, it also looks like trying to either out the seer or kill his peek on day 1 when he might be able to get away with it

so, then, what happens the second time he "gives" me his vote?

we kill a green, and he doesn't change who he is voting for. all in all that's pretty fucking curious to me. i've been trying to not let myself get overly influenced by the fact that fiction is tunneling me and also knowing that i've been completely wrong about him before, but when i re-read the thread i realized that his overall behavior is just too fucking wolfy. especially this bullshit about "proving it's not a bad call" over "proving it seems like a good call," which i ultimately decided is the sort of brain worm a wolf would say to make you question yourself.

fiction

[XelNya]

Re: TWG 131 - Game of Champions

Current vote count:

Fiction: 4
jrod: 1
tokzic: 1

Also, the end of the day post might be posted late. I'm being forced to report for jury shit today. Which fuckin' blows I tell you.

In the event it is posted late, votes past 5:20 PM server will not count. And I'd prefer it if you guys wouldn't talk at all during the down time should it happen.

Thanks, and sorry, really. I'm gonna try my best to see it done on time though. I will have my laptop with me, so we'll see.