ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

So uh

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BjLmQDimmz5IHGupoD-kNJYlsHsqma0jSNSMjdHnyTM/edit?usp=sharing

(That covers all the games which are done, but not in the history for regular TWG. Now I can work backwards through the history thread.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

so is devonin doing the stats...........?

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

Well, I'm doing some stats. What gets done with it after is *shrug*

[DaBackpack]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

Well, I'm doing some stats. What gets done with it after is *shrug*

Thanks for stepping up for this. Are you able to do some ETL stuff, just to prepare the game results in a parseable/queryable format? If we have a repository or DB with the game outcomes, that would enable us to collaboratively conduct statistical analysis.

I tried in the past but parsing and cleaning the data was too strenuous to normalize, esp. when you consider oddball or bastard games.

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

I mean...fundamentally no I can't really do much ETL stuff with this particular spreadsheet. I'm doing what it looked like was wanted which was just individual player stats for town, wolf, and 3p.

Depending on the kind of data you want access to, making another spreadsheet that was more easily used as a source for data extraction wouldn't be super hard to do.

Basically it would be a spreadsheet that had everything -but- individual player stats. Total players, size of each faction, which faction won, total phases etc. That could be pretty extractable for various bits of analysis.

[the sun fan]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

Mfw

[Charu]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

Mfw

[DaBackpack]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

I mean...fundamentally no I can't really do much ETL stuff with this particular spreadsheet. I'm doing what it looked like was wanted which was just individual player stats for town, wolf, and 3p.

Depending on the kind of data you want access to, making another spreadsheet that was more easily used as a source for data extraction wouldn't be super hard to do.

Basically it would be a spreadsheet that had everything -but- individual player stats. Total players, size of each faction, which faction won, total phases etc. That could be pretty extractable for various bits of analysis.

Oh no, I was just suggesting that if you were calculating the stats from a parse you did already, it would be good to make that public

The harsh reality is that someone is gonna have to manually clean the dataset to have a robust, scalable stats potential. I might take a look at that this weekend to gauge how hard that would be. I might devise a simple schema that captures like, win/lose for each player, color, role, modkill, etc.

EDIT: But yeah the principle is as you described. Having a spreadsheet that has raw data means that you can make as many stats as you want, just query the spreadsheet when needed

DOUBLE EDIT: I might just straight-up ask the MafiaUniverse mods what schema they use for their native stats system. No need to reinvent the wheel

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

"A parse I did already"

*Is going manually game by game through the archive because that's the only way to get at ANY player stats at all*

[DaBackpack]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

"A parse I did already"

*Is going manually game by game through the archive because that's the only way to get at ANY player stats at all*

Yeah sorry I realized this afterwards ^^;;

thanks for this work, I'll see if I can extract the game data over the next few days and we can work together to get stats done

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

I might take a look at that this weekend to gauge how hard that would be. I might devise a simple schema that captures like, win/lose for each player, color, role, modkill, etc.

The problem is that this data isn't actually grabbable even if you were somehow trying to just extract it from a big text dump out of the archives, because it will say "Town wins" up at the top, but then for each individual player in the list, it doesn't say 'won' or 'lost' unless they survived to the endgame, otherwise it says 'killed' or 'lynched' and each line only says 'vanilla town' or 'wolf' if the game is basic. Often the role names in the archive are themed and so not clear whether they are town or wolf roles unless you're also checking whether there's any green or red text in the line etc etc.

[the sun fan]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

I will pay u to do this btw

[devonin]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

I will pay u to do this btw

paypal.me/devonin

[Red Blaster]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

If the rest of the site has to deal with ur shit, I'm sure they can handle not clicking a thread they arent interested in

Savage.


On topic, wasn't Xiz doing stats for games way back when? I know when I was actively playing there was a TWG spreadsheet in google docs that showed things like win rate and etc.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ITT We remind thesunfan that he hasn't finished the stat sheet

The problem is that this data isn't actually grabbable even if you were somehow trying to just extract it from a big text dump out of the archives, because it will say "Town wins" up at the top, but then for each individual player in the list, it doesn't say 'won' or 'lost' unless they survived to the endgame, otherwise it says 'killed' or 'lynched' and each line only says 'vanilla town' or 'wolf' if the game is basic. Often the role names in the archive are themed and so not clear whether they are town or wolf roles unless you're also checking whether there's any green or red text in the line etc etc.

This is why my past attempts failed basically. I promised sunfan in the past that I would try to parse the game records and do the statistics entirely computationally. But there were too many edge cases in game design, as well as missing data from the history thread (I relied on BBCode color tags for alignment, for example, but this was unreliable because of ill-structured data)

To be clear, my suggestion is that I would manually tidy and collect the data and fit them to a specific schema, which then serves as a structured database which makes computational analysis easier

EDIT: MafiaUniverse has a fairly robust stats system built into the forum. This isn't possible for us, obviously, but I would like to see their schemas to inform a schema that we could adapt/steal for our own use on FFR