TWG XC: Deja Vu

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

arfo, if you want to play that game I'll bury you.

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

like, really. threaten whoever you like but let's not get me involved ;_;

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

Hey hey! Can I be wolf #4? It makes me feel important when someone is gunning for me :P

You don't fit as a wolf with freezin because of what happened during day 1. You could be a wolf, but probably only if he's not.

ps lol @ edubrodus

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

TWG 101

kill someone.
wait for someone to do something out of character*
accuse them
*if someone doesn't do anything out of character say something random that will prompt discussion
Discuss for 8 or 9 pages
lynch innocent player
back-up arguments with fluff

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

silly fiction, we're not at 101 yet this is only 90

[emerald000]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

You guys really killed gun? He sounded more human than anything... Anyway what's done is done.

On another note: FJ.

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

I guess emerald has something on his mind.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

You guys really killed gun? He sounded more human than anything... Anyway what's done is done.

Are you ****ing ****ting me?

Hey, what's this quote say here?

Wow gun. You might think it would be a good tactic to be active while you are a wolf, to change how you behave as a wolf. But it is not.

Hmm... that's strange. I wonder who Emerald was voting for when day ended, since as he just posted he would NEVER have wanted gun killed! He must have just been the first person to vote for gun to put pressure on him, only to move it off to his REAL lynch choice later...

Wait!

Sorry, afro. I did miscount. After going over everything again, here is what I have.

freez - afro, gun
gun - emerald, syhto, mak, vic, a2p, tupac
redh - ruritsu
panda - sc, freez
mak - panda
afro - fic

Left to Vote: BDN and RedHerring

What! You mean EMERALD WAS THE FIRST ONE TO VOTE FOR GUN AND HELPED TO HAVE HIM KILLED IN THE END? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE. I DON'T BELIEVE IT!

...

Eh. I guess I found wolf number 4.

[emerald000]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

Hi afro, now I recognize you. I knew I probably wouldn't be able to come back for day end, so I decided to place a vote early. Instead of putting a safety, I decided to put some consistence to my vote. More for putting pressure than to really get him lynched. I come back this morning, read the thread, and I find his replies more human than wolf. I really didn't think my vote would lead to his lynching.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

oh crap my lie has been exposed quick quikc BACK PEDAL BACK PEDAL

Nice try, bro, but you've already been caught.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

emerald IM'd me, apparently thinking he could talk his way out of the lie he was caught in. I thought I'd post this here for you guys. Bolded sections are special areas of interest.

(11:48:37 AM) emerald3x0: sometimes, I really wonder if you are serious with your accusations or not
(11:48:46 AM) Me: no, im totally serious bro
(11:48:54 AM) Me: you flat-out lied just now
[B](11:49:18 AM) Me: incidentally, why did you vote for fiction?
(11:49:41 AM) emerald3x0: no reason[/B]
(11:49:53 AM) Me: there must have been a reason
(11:49:57 AM) Me: like
(11:50:00 AM) Me: right now, I could vote for you
(11:50:02 AM) emerald3x0: instinct, but nothing more
(11:50:03 AM) Me: and it would be justified
(11:50:14 AM) Me: instinct alone isnt good enough
(11:50:19 AM) emerald3x0: I know
(11:50:22 AM) emerald3x0: that's why I said nothing
(11:50:24 AM) Me: then your vote is worthless
(11:50:27 AM) Me: congratulations
(11:50:34 AM) emerald3x0: thank you, thank you
(11:52:01 AM) Me: so then
(11:52:12 AM) Me: what was it about gun that SUDDENLY made you think he was human
(11:52:24 AM) Me: was it when he flipped his **** and got overly defensive and pissy?
(11:52:49 AM) Me: becuase that is just normal green behavior all over the place
(11:52:53 AM) Me: (sarcasm)
[B](11:53:53 AM) emerald3x0: general impression, his reactions were really similar to his green-play[/B]
[B](11:54:05 AM) emerald3x0: and I never really think he was a wolf to start off with[/B]
(11:54:13 AM) Me: not from what Ive heard they werent lmao
(11:54:18 AM) Me: are you joking
(11:54:39 AM) Me: "Wow gun. You might think it would be a good tactic to be active while you are a wolf, to change how you behave as a wolf. But it is not."
(11:54:42 AM) Me: that is what you said
(11:54:48 AM) Me: in other words:
[B](11:54:55 AM) Me: "you are acting differently, so you are a wolf"
(11:55:12 AM) emerald3x0: which is a really bad reason to lynch someone I know
(11:55:23 AM) Me: apparently not
(11:55:30 AM) Me: because you were the first vote on him that led to him dying[/B]
[B](11:55:54 AM) emerald3x0: I had to place a vote, so I decided to place it on him with a bad accusation to spark discussion (which worked wonderfully, even maybe too much)
(11:56:06 AM) Me: WORKED WONDERFULLY?
(11:56:11 AM) Me: it didnt do ANYTHING good
(11:56:23 AM) Me: it led to a RIDICULOUS bandwagon on the guy
(11:56:32 AM) Me: with him flailing around and getting pissed off
(11:57:01 AM) emerald3x0: it made something happen, even though that something wasn't good
(11:57:10 AM) Me: wait
(11:57:11 AM) emerald3x0: like I said, I really didn't think that would lead to his death
(11:57:13 AM) Me: so it worked
(11:57:15 AM) Me: it worked
(11:57:20 AM) Me: it worked at doing something that wasnt good
(11:57:22 AM) Me: but it worked
(11:57:25 AM) Me: it worked at doing that
(11:57:29 AM) Me: that means that was your intent
(11:57:33 AM) Me: was to do something which was not good[/B]
(11:57:49 AM) emerald3x0: my intent was to make something happen, to make people talk
(11:57:50 AM) Me: have you ever been a wolf before this game
(11:58:14 AM) emerald3x0: yeah, once like 3-4 games ago
(11:58:23 AM) Me: so this isnt your first time then?
(11:58:37 AM) Me: you should be a lot better at concealing your lies, man
(11:59:20 AM) emerald3x0: and you should be a lot better at not taking everything everyone else says as lies
(11:59:32 AM) Me: I dont take everything as lies
(11:59:47 AM) Me: I just was able to notice you stating "I think gun is a wolf"
(11:59:56 AM) Me: then in your next post making it seem as though you thought he was human all along
(12:00:07 PM) emerald3x0: I never stated that >_<
(12:00:12 PM) Me: you didnt have to
(12:00:14 PM) Me: its in the subtext
(12:00:16 PM) Me: hold on
(12:00:47 PM) Me: "He sounded more human than anything... Anyway what's done is done."
(12:01:01 PM) Me: this has the implication that you believed this all along, not that it was a newfound belief you now held
(12:01:20 PM) emerald3x0: I really don't see that implication in that line
(12:01:34 PM) Me: "he sounded" specifically implies referring to the whole of the game so far
(12:01:39 PM) emerald3x0: and if it is there for some magical reason, it wasn't my intent, since it isn't true
[B](12:01:56 PM) Me: there is no refernece or explanation that you COMPLETELY FLIPFLOPPED from your previous analysis[/B]
(12:02:22 PM) emerald3x0: undefined time in the past, which refers to the responses to his accusation
(12:03:12 PM) Me: that sounds like a shoehorned explanation after-the-fact
(12:03:32 PM) emerald3x0: saying it before the fact would have destroyed its purpose
(12:03:39 PM) Me: ...........what
(12:03:45 PM) Me: saying it "before the fact"
(12:03:48 PM) Me: i.e., WHEN YOU MADE THE POST
(12:03:55 PM) Me: would have made it clear that you CHANGED YOUR MIND
(12:04:06 PM) Me: while your post makes it appear that you had always thought gun was like that
(12:04:19 PM) Me: but now you're saying you changed your mind
(12:04:24 PM) emerald3x0: "hey I am voting for gun because of blah blah blah, but I don't think he is a wolf at all, I am only posting that to spark some discussion. Ok? Please?"
(12:04:30 PM) Me: ....
(12:04:35 PM) Me: thats not what I was referring to
(12:04:51 PM) Me: the post I was referring to was the one where you said "he sounded human"
(12:05:54 PM) emerald3x0: "while your post makes it appear that you had always thought gun was like that": that's the problem. My post isn't saying that.
(12:06:04 PM) Me: IT DIDNT HAVE TO
(12:06:07 PM) emerald3x0: or I REALLY can't see it (yeah I can type in caps too)
(12:06:32 PM) Me: have you ever heard the phrase "read between the lines"?
[B](12:06:54 PM) emerald3x0: yes, but the problem here is: you are making your own assumptions which are false
(12:07:17 PM) emerald3x0: and I have been killing to tell you that, but you can't seem to listen at all at what I am saying[/B]
(12:07:23 PM) emerald3x0: which is ****ing possing me off
(12:07:30 PM) emerald3x0: *pissing ^^'
[B](12:07:41 PM) Me: you have been "killing" to tell me that?
(12:07:45 PM) Me: freudian slip?[/B]
(12:07:52 PM) emerald3x0: bahahahahaha
[B](12:08:08 PM) emerald3x0: good catch, but you knw what I mean[/B]
(12:08:16 PM) Me: cant say as I do
(12:08:30 PM) Me: Im good at reading subtext, not understanding sentences that have the wrong words in them
(12:08:57 PM) emerald3x0: sorry, doing my best putting the best words, but I'll always do mistakes since English isn't my first language
[B](12:08:59 PM) Me: also notice that you said "good catch" instead of something like "nice try"
(12:09:10 PM) Me: a "catch" implies that I was right in my analysis[/B]
(12:09:50 PM) emerald3x0: catch: The act of noticing, understanding or hearing.
(12:10:33 PM) emerald3x0: you "noticed" the second meaning of "killing"
(12:11:06 PM) Me: did you mean to say "I have been dying to tell you that"?
(12:11:22 PM) Me: "die" is the proper idiom there, "kill" isn't even close
(12:11:25 PM) emerald3x0: oh yeah
(12:11:51 PM) emerald3x0: my bad
(12:12:07 PM) Me: you just had killing on your brain after offing ruritsu last night huh
(12:12:15 PM) emerald3x0: *sigh*
(12:12:26 PM) Me: wasnt your idea to kill ruritsu?
(12:12:33 PM) emerald3x0: nope, it wasn't
(12:12:33 PM) Me: I thought it was a pretty dumb kill myself
(12:12:37 PM) Me: who would you have gone for?
(12:12:44 PM) Me: if the choice had been solely up to you
[B](12:15:01 PM) emerald3x0: not you, since you are already a wolf, and I assume if you are asking that you mean if I was also a wolf, but I would have probably gone for FJ or someone accusing a partner (the list wasn't included in your question, so I can't precise more)[/B]
(12:15:19 PM) Me: huh
[B](12:15:25 PM) Me: so you want to lynch FJ
(12:15:31 PM) Me: but you also would have wolfed him?
(12:15:35 PM) Me: THAT MAKES SENSE[/B]
(12:16:45 PM) emerald3x0: well, wolfing vets make sense, and if I were a wolf, I probably wouldn't feel FJ as a wolf  SINCE I ALREADY KNOW THEM
(12:17:31 PM) Me: right so you already know the wolves
(12:17:38 PM) Me: but you are confident FJ is a wolf right now
(12:17:42 PM) Me: meaning that he'd be your partner
(12:18:15 PM) emerald3x0: that "since I already know them" was included in the "if I were a wolf"
(12:18:26 PM) Me: right so
(12:18:28 PM) Me: you're a wolf
(12:18:33 PM) Me: and you know the wolves
(12:18:45 PM) Me: but right now, you're claiming FJ is a wolf by voting for him
(12:18:56 PM) Me: so FJ would be your partner if he is a wolf
(12:19:07 PM) Me: so why would you have wolfed your partner
(12:19:17 PM) emerald3x0: I really lost you on that one
(12:19:25 PM) Me: ok
(12:19:28 PM) Me: You voted for FJ
(12:19:48 PM) Me: this means that you are under the impression that he is a wolf, apparently
(12:19:57 PM) emerald3x0: slight impression, but yeah
(12:20:00 PM) Me: now, consider that you're a wolf
(12:20:08 PM) Me: this means that FJ would be your partner
(12:20:21 PM) emerald3x0: assuming FJ is a wolf too
(12:20:26 PM) Me: why would you think your wolf partner would be a good night kill
(12:20:42 PM) Me: what im REALLY saying is:
(12:20:49 PM) Me: humans are killed at night by wolves
(12:20:58 PM) Me: humans try to kill wolves during the day
(12:21:19 PM) Me: FOR YOU, fiction should fit primarily under 1 of the 2 categories
(12:21:37 PM) Me: He'd either be a wolf kill or he'd be a good lynch
(12:21:41 PM) Me: he shouldnt be both
(12:21:56 PM) Me: if you think he is a wolf enough to vote for him
(12:21:58 PM) emerald3x0: wolves aren't seeing the game as the humans, since they have access to more information that humans
(12:22:06 PM) Me: then you shouldnt be saying he'd make a good wolf kill
(12:22:19 PM) Me: you should realize that him being a wolf means he WOULDNT be killed at night
(12:22:28 PM) emerald3x0: yeah duh
(12:22:46 PM) Me: so you're agreeing with me that you don't make any sense?
(12:22:59 PM) emerald3x0: I'll restate what I said earlier
(12:23:51 PM) emerald3x0: as a human this game, I analyse what people says and try to find wolves (my intuition had something against FJ for some reason)
(12:25:18 PM) emerald3x0: If I were a wolf:
1- FJ is a wolf and I would obviously not kill him
2- FJ isn't a wolf and since I wouldn't try to find out wolves, my intuition wouldn't have rung and I wouldn't find him wolfish, and thus he would be a good wolfing target
(12:25:27 PM) emerald3x0: I really don't know how to put that clearer
(12:25:44 PM) Me: you're missing what Im getting at
(12:25:55 PM) Me: you think FJ is someone who should be lynched right?
(12:26:34 PM) emerald3x0: I don't think there is enough evidence on him to lynch him yet, but he is on my list 
(12:26:40 PM) Me: ok so
(12:26:52 PM) Me: there is one case where you as a red would attack him
(12:26:59 PM) Me: if he is human and you are red
(12:27:01 PM) Me: right?
(12:27:12 PM) Me: however
(12:27:28 PM) Me: his role is irrelevant to his lynchability
(12:27:38 PM) Me: if you're on opposite teams and you think he can be lycnhed
(12:27:44 PM) Me: you will want him lynched
(12:28:03 PM) Me: if you're green and he's red, you will want to lynch him since thats your only option to kill him
(12:28:23 PM) Me: if you're red and he's green, you will want to lynch him, because it's always better to save your wolf attacks for players who wouldn't be lynched
(12:29:15 PM) emerald3x0: case 2: FJ probably won't get lynched, since I am not called afro or manti, so wolfing would be a better idea
(12:29:46 PM) Me: one doesnt need great draw for their lynch choice to be picked
(12:29:55 PM) Me: look at day 1, you ended up getting gun killed!
(12:30:05 PM) Me: anyway, I think I'm going to post this log and I think I'm going to do my best to get you lynched today
(12:30:14 PM) Me: do you have any last words before I post it?
(12:30:33 PM) emerald3x0: have fun
[B](12:31:03 PM) emerald3x0: and if that get me lynched, I seriously lose hope in humanity[/B]

Notice that in his last line there, he has himself separated apart from humanity. This isn't unheard of for a green on the ropes who is pissed off at his team, but considering that he doesn't understand the subtext I'm reading off of him, I wouldn't expect him to know as a wolf to not use words that set him apart from humanity.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

ps a little more good measure:

(12:32:06 PM) Me: you basically screwed up bad and are almost definitely going to die
[B](12:33:02 PM) emerald3x0: sure, lynch again someone who tried to make something useful
(12:33:12 PM) emerald3x0: you sure started well last day[/B]
(12:33:13 PM) Me: hey now
(12:33:20 PM) Me: you are the one who started the ball rolling on gun
(12:33:32 PM) Me: I NEVER voted for gun
(12:33:42 PM) Me: and was in favor of lynching HIS choice for the entire day
(12:33:53 PM) Me: dont even try and act like yesterday had anything to do with me
[B](12:34:00 PM) emerald3x0: "you" meant the whole human team[/B]
(12:34:12 PM) emerald3x0: that wasn't directed to you particulary

He says "you did a good job", and he means "humans did a good job". He excluded himself from the humans, EVEN WHEN THE HUMANS HE WAS REFERRING TO WERE THE ONES WHO KILLED GUN YESTERDAY.

He should have used the word "we". Instead he used the word "you".

emerald000

[emerald000]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

Here we go. If you are going to read my log with afro, at least read the whole thing, not only the bolded parts. afro made sure not to include my explanations in bold.

And if you want more explanation (although I had to repeat multiple times to afro), come ask me.

[emerald000]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

"you did a good job" sure sounds good when you translate it to French. Stupid English not having a separate second-person plural.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XC: Deja Vu

"you did a good job" sure sounds good when you translate it to French. Stupid English not having a separate second-person plural.

It does, sort of. The word "you" can be plural just the same.

The problem isn't that you used the word you as a plural, it's that you referred the humans as "you" rather than "us".

You effectively said "I am not one of the humans who lynched gun yesterday."

This is subtext.