FFR poker league -dead-

[Ksl33zy24]

great heads up match

[nois-or-e]

Originally Posted by awein999

That doesn't give justice to the epic match it was and my good playing for most of the tourney

I know, but 72 trying to bluff AA just makes me giggle a little ;D

Was a very great game and very solid play amongst the final 3. Heads up was long and hard fought. GG all around

[ddrmaniacaaa]

Awein, be prepared to get called by me at all times now. I mean, you Raised preflop in position with the 7 deuce offsuit to 2x the big blind and then called Jae's reraise to 8,888. Then you overbet the flop after hitting nothing by shoving with not even a backdoor flush or straight draw. You literally had air. Its obvious you played well to get to that position but why you called an extra 4,888 to shove the flop is beyond me.

/Rant

[Reach]

Originally Posted by awein999

That doesn't give justice to the epic match it was and my good playing for most of the tourney

It does make me laugh everytime though cause it looks retarded....

Edit: 3:30.

Well, if you're going to play 72, you might as well play it like that lol. It's pretty hard for him to call there with anything other than a Q or what he has.

Awein, be prepared to get called by me at all times now. I mean, you Raised preflop in position with the 7 deuce offsuit to 2x the big blind and then called Jae's reraise to 8,888. Then you overbet the flop after hitting nothing by shoving with not even a backdoor flush or straight draw. You literally had air. Its obvious you played well to get to that position but why you called an extra 4,888 to shove the flop is beyond me.

He only had 20 something BB anyway, excluding antes, so he pretty much has to play most hands he is dealt. Giving the fact he's raising almost every hand, nois should be re-raising him pretty light. Of course, he should fold with 72, but if he's going to call he has to shove the flop to be profitable.

Otherwise you're throwing your money away, since nois will outdraw you most of the time, and or nois can just shove the turn and steal on pretty much any turn. Nois is going to miss the flop most of the time, so shoving there will take it down most of the time. Also, it wasn't an overbet, since he had nois covered.

If there are any hands I'm folding in that spot, 72 is among them though, lol.


Also, you shouldn't tell him that. I'll be nice and inform you, since if he was at all a strong player he would do exactly that to you next time they play with the nuts. That's the beauty of getting caught doing something like this in a cash game. You can rebuy and bust a bunch of people before they realize you're not actually an idiot.

[Reincarnate]

Maybe the best way to play is to switch up risk profiles randomly... sort of like the Reckless/Cautious/Realist CPUs on Zilch. XD

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Maybe the best way to play is to switch up risk profiles randomly... sort of like the Reckless/Cautious/Realist CPUs on Zilch. XD

Optimally speaking, in a heads up game, the best way to play is to constantly mix up your game while adapting to how your opponent is playing.

However, that wasn't a typical heads up game. It's a tournament, meaning the blinds keep going up, so they're rapidly running out of chips. Therefore, the optimal way to play over the top aggressive, regardless of what hands you're dealt. There's not really anything wrong with awein's play there. I've done similar numerous times in SNGs and taken the pot down most of the time.

[Reincarnate]

What's the difference between regular poker and headsup?

[TC_Halogen]

Heads-up is when you're in a hand with only two players, or (the more common usage of the term) when you're in a table that has only two players remaining in it. It typically entails a different strategy because in order to survive, you have to play considerably more hands. Players constantly have to switch up their game in order to survive.

[ddrmaniacaaa]

Originally Posted by Reach

Well, if you're going to play 72, you might as well play it like that lol. It's pretty hard for him to call there with anything other than a Q or what he has.



He only had 20 something BB anyway, excluding antes, so he pretty much has to play most hands he is dealt. Giving the fact he's raising almost every hand, nois should be re-raising him pretty light. Of course, he should fold with 72, but if he's going to call he has to shove the flop to be profitable.

Otherwise you're throwing your money away, since nois will outdraw you most of the time, and or nois can just shove the turn and steal on pretty much any turn. Nois is going to miss the flop most of the time, so shoving there will take it down most of the time. Also, it wasn't an overbet, since he had nois covered.

If there are any hands I'm folding in that spot, 72 is among them though, lol.


Also, you shouldn't tell him that. I'll be nice and inform you, since if he was at all a strong player he would do exactly that to you next time they play with the nuts. That's the beauty of getting caught doing something like this in a cash game. You can rebuy and bust a bunch of people before they realize you're not actually an idiot.

Im no expert, but he bet more than the size of the pot after the flop, isnt that what an overbet is. I wansnt trying to compare his stack to Jae's and I wouldnt even make that large of a bet if i had the nuts. And i would call with AA AKs AK KK obviously any queen and probably JJ there not just Aces. I dont understand why he called the 8,888 re raise with no hand and Jae was priced in to call with almost anything post flop, so it just didnt seem like the right time to bluff your entire stack with 7 high. And i was just joking telling him that i would call all his bets. He has harped on me already for calling too many of his bluffs heads up and it was an inside joke after seeing that hand. If this were a cash game and he rebought i wouldnt say that nor change my strategy and start to make looser calls against him because he made one attempt to bluff.

[TC_Halogen]

You wouldn't, but a lot of other seemingly intelligent players might not give him the table reputation if he doesn't get the chance to muck his garbage cards. If they see a similar situation and have a hunch that it might just be an overly aggressive play, they'll try to catch him (and consequently, pay him off).

[Reach]

Originally Posted by ddrmaniacaaa

Im no expert, but he bet more than the size of the pot after the flop, isnt that what an overbet is. I wansnt trying to compare his stack to Jae's and I wouldnt even make that large of a bet if i had the nuts. And i would call with AA AKs AK KK obviously any queen and probably JJ there not just Aces. I dont understand why he called the 8,888 re raise with no hand and Jae was priced in to call with almost anything post flop, so it just didnt seem like the right time to bluff your entire stack with 7 high. And i was just joking telling him that i would call all his bets. He has harped on me already for calling too many of his bluffs heads up and it was an inside joke after seeing that hand. If this were a cash game and he rebought i wouldnt say that nor change my strategy and start to make looser calls against him because he made one attempt to bluff.

He effectively bet 16932 into a pot of 18276, so no, it's not an overbet. It's pretty standard to shove there with most hands that connect or a good bluff.

There's no reason for you to make a bet other than a shove here. If you make a medium size bet, nois can't really call. He has to fold or shove over you, meaning your medium size bet is no different than shoving all in.

He should have folded to the re-raise, yes. However, since he did call, there are a lot of hands nois can have here that completely miss the flop, making it impossible to make that call. 72 has no showdown value, so he has to shove here after making the call. I suppose he can completely give up, but the point is that he should never make that call in the first place if he's not going to bluff most flops.


I have no idea how tight or how loose nois is because I haven't played with him. If he's a loose player though, there's no reason this play is necessarily bad. If nois is pretty tight though, obviously this is an easy fold.

[ddrmaniacaaa]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

You wouldn't, but a lot of other seemingly intelligent players might not give him the table reputation if he doesn't get the chance to muck his garbage cards. If they see a similar situation and have a hunch that it might just be an overly aggressive play, they'll try to catch him (and consequently, pay him off).

Well, now that Jae posted it they can see it, but in reality had he not done this the only one picking up on this would have been Jae. Its up to the individual to decide what to do in each individaul hand. Its obvious the strength of my hand in that situation would matter, no matter whos bluffing, but i agree, this play will make me question Awein, which i already have been doing. And because of this, I think he is a really good player. You cant tell if he has 7 deuce or the nuts so, hats off.

ok, reach i understand now, i didnt make the assumption that he cant bet more than Jae's stack. I wont try and make an assumption on Jae's shorthanded play just yet, but awein cant beat anything here, which is why i dont understand the shove. I understand that his hand had no showdown value but based on Jae's prefolp raise and Awein hitting none of that, it would have been time to check/fold, cut your losses and get out of there.

EDIT: also, does anyone have any experience with the freerolls on stars. Im on my way to the Sunday Weekly RD2 unless something drastic happens. Im wondering what would happen if i won some of the prize pool because i have not made a deposit nor entered any of my bank information. Im not sure how withdrawals would work because you have to withdraw money the same way you deposit it (bank transfer most likely).

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Heads-up is when you're in a hand with only two players, or (the more common usage of the term) when you're in a table that has only two players remaining in it. It typically entails a different strategy because in order to survive, you have to play considerably more hands. Players constantly have to switch up their game in order to survive.

So the game we played the other night would be heads-up?

[awein999]

I didn't fold because there was a history. Last time I minraised from dealer position (which I rarely did) I showed 6 3. And when I do that I either have a huge hand or air, most likely a huge hand. I thought that he thought I had air so he wasn't that strong. So I thought he'd fold the shove with cards that missed.

So he had AA...AGAIN. Just bad luck for me deciding to make a move that hand.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

So the game we played the other night would be heads-up?

Yes, it would be.

Originally Posted by awein999

I didn't fold because there was a history. Last time I minraised from dealer position (which I rarely did) I showed 6 3. And when I do that I either have a huge hand or air, most likely a huge hand. I thought that he thought I had air so he wasn't that strong. So I thought he'd fold the shove with cards that missed.

So he had AA...AGAIN. Just bad luck for me deciding to make a move that hand.

Your move was a respectable move, but it was just bad timing. Nothing that you can do about it and it was beyond your control.

[Reincarnate]

Back to that game between Dwan and Hellmuth:

The only thing I don't understand: Why wouldn't Dwan simply re-raise something aggressively high with his pocket 10's? I don't yet understand the value of going all-in. It seems like the equivalent of a really large bet/raise that could turn out to be quite deleterious if you're not strong.

Is going all-in really just a high-variance vote of confidence? It seems like you'd only go all-in if you thought your opponent was strong but not as strong as you.

[awein999]

Jae you should put that hand on youtube I bet it'll get a ton of views. Title: "7 2 off suit donk tries to bluff AA"
lolol

[ddrmaniacaaa]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Back to that game between Dwan and Hellmuth:

The only thing I don't understand: Why wouldn't Dwan simply re-raise something aggressively high with his pocket 10's? I don't yet understand the value of going all-in. It seems like the equivalent of a really large bet/raise that could turn out to be quite deleterious if you're not strong.

Is going all-in really just a high-variance vote of confidence? It seems like you'd only go all-in if you thought your opponent was strong but not as strong as you.

This is exactly right. Not sure what your not understanding this was a bad play by dwan and 9/10 times would not work out for him. But from his perspective he should have raised based on Phil limping preflop, so a raise was the right move. Then he may have thought that Phil was trying to steal the blinds or something by reraising. Not sure why he shoved, he probably should have just called phils reraise, but he would have been priced in for a shove regardless.

[Ksl33zy24]

DDR if you win real money, you will "no doubt" have to give atleast address information so they can mail checks.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Back to that game between Dwan and Hellmuth:

The only thing I don't understand: Why wouldn't Dwan simply re-raise something aggressively high with his pocket 10's? I don't yet understand the value of going all-in. It seems like the equivalent of a really large bet/raise that could turn out to be quite deleterious if you're not strong.

Is going all-in really just a high-variance vote of confidence? It seems like you'd only go all-in if you thought your opponent was strong but not as strong as you.

In the case of just two players, pocket tens in the hole are really strong. The odds of you being beat before the flop are fairly low, and an all-in bet can represent you attempting one of two things -- stealing the pot (to take the blinds, since heads-up does somewhat revolve around this) or a bet for maximum payout (truly what it is, but your opponent won't be sure of this if you've been aggressive). In this particular case, it's not a bad play so to say, but definitely a poorly timed one. So, an answer to your question would be: sometimes. There will be instances where an all-in shove might be placed to bait your opponent into thinking you don't have anything, when you may in fact have them dominated, thus paying out a lot.

Another thing to think about: an all-in bet also shows a lot of confidence by the premise of the bet itself. Think about it: if you push all of your chips into the pot at once, the player who is opposing you can't try to bet you out of the pot. This can be a fairly effective strategy against aggressive players, because they may try a bit harder to knock you out of the pot when they see even the slightest hint of weakness.

A lot of betting patterns in poker can be interpreted two different ways, and it's very difficult to tell how a player is utilizing their chips if they're mixing up their game.