Is Science our New God? - Page 3

aleco · 04-23-2004, 05:24 PM

All right. You obviously don't know the story of Noah and the ark. If you did, then maybe you could come with a better reply.

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thingy

Does anyone see the irony that Chardish compared Christianity to "a martyr with 12 followers?"

Many people believe BECAUSE of logic.
If all religion is wrong, and you believe, then you die and thats it.
If your religion is right, and you believe, you get to go to heaven.
If your religion is wrong, and you dont believe, you still die.
If your religion is right, and you dont believe, you are in serious trouble.

So: If you believe, one of two things will happen, dead or heaven.
If you dont, one of two things will happen, dead or hell.

What do you think most people will choose?

I really dont know what my point is, I just disagreed with both sides. lol

"lets be a christian so we might be able to go to heaven!"

i'm not christian or anything, but i will have to disagree on your logic.
that's like believing because you are afraid of what might happen to you if you don't believe, which is stupid.

Privateer · 04-23-2004, 05:36 PM

Doesn't God forgive everyone, anyway? :P Plus, even if you don't believe, if you don't do the things that send you to Hell, there would be no reason for you to still go to Hell, if you don't believe.

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 05:53 PM

yes i've also thought about that too. also, i never understood why god would create gay people if it's a sin. gay people don't just choose to be gay, because i'm sure if they could they would be straight since it's easier that way, and accepted by society.

speaking of multiple religions, there was a south park episode i vaguely remember where everyone was in hell, and jesus or someone was like,
"i'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was Hindu."

DracIV · 04-23-2004, 06:00 PM

Aleco, they have also proved that the ark dimensions are impossible, the number of animals usually accepted is impossible, the number of animals he would have taken wouldn't have fit (according to exactly what he was supposed to bring from the area), the arrival location is impossible, the worldwide flood is impossible, and the length of time was impossible. I'd go with the Sumerian story rather than the Jewish story.

Fusi0n, odd fact: most gay people are gay by genetics, not by choice most of the time, so God [assume he exists] made all the gay people on purpose even though he specifically said that being gay is a sin . . . or did he? Was he the one who said it or did someone else say it in his name? Also, the Church actually used that tactic to get a huge amount of power during the Black Plague and later.

aleco · 04-23-2004, 06:06 PM

Privateer: Just because he forgives doesn't mean you can just go do things anyway. You don't go to hell because you do bad things, anyway, but if you did, everyone would be goin there, because you can't be saved by works. It's impossible.

G ayness came about with sin, not before, when all was perfect.

DracIV: Impossible by human standards, but not impossible to God. Nothing is impossible to God.

DracIV · 04-23-2004, 06:29 PM

Don't give me that BS. It is impossible as in it wouldn't work without non-stop-not-gonna-ever-happen intervention and massive reconstruction of the whole world after it got screwed over by these impossibilities. Impossible as in only an idiotic god would ever do something so pointless when he could kill everyone with the snap of his fingers. Or can he? Is it possible that your god may not have unlimited powers, or any at all, but that he is just a figure and/or caretaker of the afterlife? Why would he focus so much on this single planet? Why stick us in a crappy start instead of starting us with a perfect civilization that spanned galaxies? Why be an idiot and make all this stuff he wasn't planning to use if Eden did/didn't exist? Why assume we are even more than play toys to him and some other race on another planet(s) are the ones he truly loves? Why are humans so selfish in assuming they are the only ones a god would favor? Why was the world made in such an ungodlike manner? Why? I say it is because no one is here, what do you say?

DracIV · 04-23-2004, 06:39 PM

Oops. I accidentally forgot to make my comment relating to the original thread. Here goes:

The reason Science cannot be used as a way to lord over others is because the whole point is the gaining and spreading of knowledge. If you wanted to learn just about anything we have discovered with science, you can find it publicly. Religion on the other hand is not so nice. Being "in the favor of God" is something that the Church leaders can claim so that they are able to lord over the peasants. They can use their power to control people. Scientists cannot. Scientists learn things and spread them to the world. Heck, if you wanted to know how to make an atomic bomb you could look it up easily and find it. Science spreads knowledge to the masses, religion works better when knowledge is barred from reaching the masses. Educated masses seek answer and further science in the search for knowledge. Uneducated masses must resort to religion to find a reason for life. Educated masses can choose their future, whether they believe or not, whether they will search for answers or not. Uneducated masses are not allowed to choose. It is chosen for them; example: years after Black Plague in which following the Church was literally forced.

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DracIV

Fusi0n, odd fact: most #$* people are #$* by genetics, not by choice most of the time, so God [assume he exists] made all the #$* people on purpose even though he specifically said that being #$* is a sin . . . or did he? Was he the one who said it or did someone else say it in his name? Also, the Church actually used that tactic to get a huge amount of power during the Black Plague and later.

i knew that most gay people are gay by genetics, which is why i said they don't have a choice whether they are gay or not. a lot of christians (not all) think that homosexuals are gay by choice.

deposition · 04-23-2004, 08:44 PM

Quote:

god would create gay people

there is no 'gay' gene
people arnt born gay.. no animals are gay.. its not natural.ts up in their head. mabye a little subconsously.. a lot fo the time gay guys dont have dads.. so uhhh mabye is their enviroment

or

(most likely)
mabye just because their really gay

and their gay
so
their gay

btw why the hell does the formus filter stupid crap like the work gay??

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 09:00 PM

it's genetic brian, you n00b.

and yeah there are mental aspects too, but just because a person doesn't have a dad doesn't mean they are gay. you can't turn anyone gay.

04-23-2004, 10:12 PM

God creates gay people for the same reason he creates kleptomaniacs, or people with personality disorders, etc. - to challenge them to live faithfully despite their tendency to sin, and to show this example to others. Because we all have tendencies to sin, and could easily go by their example.

DracIV · 04-23-2004, 10:30 PM

"despite their tendency to sin"

So you personally have declared that gay people are sinners, and those with personality disorders are also sinners? Who do you or your god think you are to declare these people sinners and evil because they have a problem they cannot help? I'd call god an asshole for torturing people in that manner. Neither of you have a right to declare someone wrong for a genetic error. I don't care if he is the "all powerful sumpreme god" and even if I do believe in him, no one has the right to judge that or to force that on people. Not even a god. If god exists, he is the most evil, most cruel, most horrifically unfair being in all existance. No one should ever force things like major personality disorders, retardedness, or other genetic errors onto people. When I look at the list of problems in the world on all levels that are part of nature, I know a god either has to be malicious or nonexistant. Your message really struck a nerve for me. I can't stand anyone who would ever force such things on people to make them "examples" for others. That is no better than chopping the hands of a thief off to make the rest not steal. That is no better than the worst things humans have ever done to each other, and I find it horribly digusting, even if it is meant to "help" us.

God needs some lessons in morals and ethics. When you look at all the things he has done, many of them are unbelievably cruel. Genocide? Yep. Abandoning his followers in a desert? Sure. Murdering hundreds of thousands just to make an interesting event? Definately. Killing his followers by the millions? Every year. And what does he give in return for all these horrible deeds? A promise of life after we die. How exciting. I'm reluctant to believe the word of someone who would kill his own son just to make a point.

Anonymous · 04-23-2004, 11:06 PM

All religion... is still a theory. None have proof... just like big bang, or evolution.

Agnosticism is the closest i can get to truth

SUSUGAM · 04-23-2004, 11:26 PM

^
|
|
me...

buh

Anonymous · 04-23-2004, 11:43 PM

Viva la agnosticism! Viva la science!

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 11:44 PM

i don't see how gay people are sinning by doing what is natural to them...they have the right the happiness as much as anyone else, and to say they don't because god says so to me is wrong...and why is homosexuality wrong to god?

alextrebek · 04-23-2004, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Viva la agnosticism! Viva la science!

That was me, and I could have sworn I was logged in...

fusi0n · 04-23-2004, 11:46 PM

<('.'<) (>'.')>

yay for another religion thread.

SUSUGAM · 04-23-2004, 11:49 PM

Organized Religion - The downfall of society.

Sins... so much bullsh!t there that i want to vomit... and laugh at how im still not going too hell, even though a book says I will.

04-23-2004, 05:24 PM	#41
aleco FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I am where I am Posts: 1,054	All right. You obviously don't know the story of Noah and the ark. If you did, then maybe you could come with a better reply. __________________ I still exist...

04-23-2004, 05:36 PM	#43
Privateer FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 2,962	Doesn't God forgive everyone, anyway? :P Plus, even if you don't believe, if you don't do the things that send you to Hell, there would be no reason for you to still go to Hell, if you don't believe. __________________

04-23-2004, 05:53 PM	#44
fusi0n FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Age: 38 Posts: 2,158	yes i've also thought about that too. also, i never understood why god would create gay people if it's a sin. gay people don't just choose to be gay, because i'm sure if they could they would be straight since it's easier that way, and accepted by society. speaking of multiple religions, there was a south park episode i vaguely remember where everyone was in hell, and jesus or someone was like, "i'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was Hindu." __________________

04-23-2004, 06:06 PM	#46
aleco FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I am where I am Posts: 1,054	Privateer: Just because he forgives doesn't mean you can just go do things anyway. You don't go to hell because you do bad things, anyway, but if you did, everyone would be goin there, because you can't be saved by works. It's impossible. G ayness came about with sin, not before, when all was perfect. DracIV: Impossible by human standards, but not impossible to God. Nothing is impossible to God. __________________ I still exist...

04-23-2004, 09:00 PM	#51
fusi0n FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Age: 38 Posts: 2,158	it's genetic brian, you n00b. and yeah there are mental aspects too, but just because a person doesn't have a dad doesn't mean they are gay. you can't turn anyone gay. __________________

04-23-2004, 06:00 PM	#45
DracIV FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 298	Aleco, they have also proved that the ark dimensions are impossible, the number of animals usually accepted is impossible, the number of animals he would have taken wouldn't have fit (according to exactly what he was supposed to bring from the area), the arrival location is impossible, the worldwide flood is impossible, and the length of time was impossible. I'd go with the Sumerian story rather than the Jewish story. Fusi0n, odd fact: most gay people are gay by genetics, not by choice most of the time, so God [assume he exists] made all the gay people on purpose even though he specifically said that being gay is a sin . . . or did he? Was he the one who said it or did someone else say it in his name? Also, the Church actually used that tactic to get a huge amount of power during the Black Plague and later.

04-23-2004, 06:29 PM	#47
DracIV FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 298	Don't give me that BS. It is impossible as in it wouldn't work without non-stop-not-gonna-ever-happen intervention and massive reconstruction of the whole world after it got screwed over by these impossibilities. Impossible as in only an idiotic god would ever do something so pointless when he could kill everyone with the snap of his fingers. Or can he? Is it possible that your god may not have unlimited powers, or any at all, but that he is just a figure and/or caretaker of the afterlife? Why would he focus so much on this single planet? Why stick us in a crappy start instead of starting us with a perfect civilization that spanned galaxies? Why be an idiot and make all this stuff he wasn't planning to use if Eden did/didn't exist? Why assume we are even more than play toys to him and some other race on another planet(s) are the ones he truly loves? Why are humans so selfish in assuming they are the only ones a god would favor? Why was the world made in such an ungodlike manner? Why? I say it is because no one is here, what do you say?

04-23-2004, 06:39 PM	#48
DracIV FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 298	Oops. I accidentally forgot to make my comment relating to the original thread. Here goes: The reason Science cannot be used as a way to lord over others is because the whole point is the gaining and spreading of knowledge. If you wanted to learn just about anything we have discovered with science, you can find it publicly. Religion on the other hand is not so nice. Being "in the favor of God" is something that the Church leaders can claim so that they are able to lord over the peasants. They can use their power to control people. Scientists cannot. Scientists learn things and spread them to the world. Heck, if you wanted to know how to make an atomic bomb you could look it up easily and find it. Science spreads knowledge to the masses, religion works better when knowledge is barred from reaching the masses. Educated masses seek answer and further science in the search for knowledge. Uneducated masses must resort to religion to find a reason for life. Educated masses can choose their future, whether they believe or not, whether they will search for answers or not. Uneducated masses are not allowed to choose. It is chosen for them; example: years after Black Plague in which following the Church was literally forced.

04-23-2004, 10:12 PM	#52
User6773 Guest Posts: n/a	God creates gay people for the same reason he creates kleptomaniacs, or people with personality disorders, etc. - to challenge them to live faithfully despite their tendency to sin, and to show this example to others. Because we all have tendencies to sin, and could easily go by their example.

04-23-2004, 10:30 PM	#53
DracIV FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 298	"despite their tendency to sin" So you personally have declared that gay people are sinners, and those with personality disorders are also sinners? Who do you or your god think you are to declare these people sinners and evil because they have a problem they cannot help? I'd call god an asshole for torturing people in that manner. Neither of you have a right to declare someone wrong for a genetic error. I don't care if he is the "all powerful sumpreme god" and even if I do believe in him, no one has the right to judge that or to force that on people. Not even a god. If god exists, he is the most evil, most cruel, most horrifically unfair being in all existance. No one should ever force things like major personality disorders, retardedness, or other genetic errors onto people. When I look at the list of problems in the world on all levels that are part of nature, I know a god either has to be malicious or nonexistant. Your message really struck a nerve for me. I can't stand anyone who would ever force such things on people to make them "examples" for others. That is no better than chopping the hands of a thief off to make the rest not steal. That is no better than the worst things humans have ever done to each other, and I find it horribly digusting, even if it is meant to "help" us. God needs some lessons in morals and ethics. When you look at all the things he has done, many of them are unbelievably cruel. Genocide? Yep. Abandoning his followers in a desert? Sure. Murdering hundreds of thousands just to make an interesting event? Definately. Killing his followers by the millions? Every year. And what does he give in return for all these horrible deeds? A promise of life after we die. How exciting. I'm reluctant to believe the word of someone who would kill his own son just to make a point.

04-23-2004, 11:06 PM	#54
Anonymous FFR Player Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,088	All religion... is still a theory. None have proof... just like big bang, or evolution. Agnosticism is the closest i can get to truth

04-23-2004, 11:26 PM	#55
SUSUGAM FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 69	^ \| \| me... buh

04-23-2004, 11:43 PM	#56
Anonymous FFR Player Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,088	Viva la agnosticism! Viva la science!

04-23-2004, 11:44 PM	#57
fusi0n FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Age: 38 Posts: 2,158	i don't see how gay people are sinning by doing what is natural to them...they have the right the happiness as much as anyone else, and to say they don't because god says so to me is wrong...and why is homosexuality wrong to god? __________________

04-23-2004, 11:46 PM	#59
fusi0n FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Age: 38 Posts: 2,158	<('.'<) (>'.')> yay for another religion thread. __________________

04-23-2004, 11:49 PM	#60
SUSUGAM FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 69	Organized Religion - The downfall of society. Sins... so much bullsh!t there that i want to vomit... and laugh at how im still not going too hell, even though a book says I will.

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