Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[tsugomaru]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

I glanced at some posts.

Dedication doesn't mean you know how to wavedash.

That's all I have to say.

~Tsugomaru

[Shamo0]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Of course it doesn't. It just means you would take the time to learn it if you wanted to.

Dedication - a devoting or setting aside for a particular purpose - webster

Your particular purpose is learning how to Wavedash.


Anyone can use items in Mariokart. Anyone can take the time to practice snaking. It's a matter of choice. It's not lame or cheating =/ It's simply becoming better then other people by practicing something that other people don't want to practice.

Wavedashing is an exploit. A glitch whatever you want to call it. But it's still deemed fair play by the active Smash community.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

well i am dedicated to be better than someone that use wavedash.
and i am practicing how to win without using heavy miniboost,
so far i've done both.

but yeah i can snake however i saw it is not my style of playing so i will never use it again

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

By the way, regardless of whether or not these exploits (wavedashing, snaking, etc.) are necessarily fair, you have to admit it certainly makes for more entertaining games. If all parties involved can use the techniques, then the game becomes that much more exciting. Of course, if not all parties involved can use the techniques, then it becomes more of a challenge to those who can't. And isn't challenging yourself and having fun the whole point of video games?

There are people who have much more fun playing with [insert debated game facet here (e.g. wavedashing, items, snaking, etc.)]. Just because something is an exploit or abuses game mechanics doesn't necessarily mean it takes all the fun out of the game. You could argue that it isn't fun to lose to someone just because they can do something you can't (or choose not to), but everyone has the ability to learn and to get better at the game. This doesn't just apply to glitches, as stuff like chain-throwing in SSBM is something not everyone can do, but that everyone can learn.

Personally, my goal in any game is to be as good at it as I possibly can. Why? Because it's more fun for me the better I am. You have to admit that these debated techniques do require skill to use, so for the purpose of being better and thus having more fun, I will learn them. Mastering a new technique or style is something I greatly enjoy.

I believe this philosophy holds true to most people: you have more fun in a game the better you are at it. People will try to improve themselves so that they can enjoy the game more. Because of this, I don't see a problem with wavedashing. Learning it and learning how to use it (which is another thing entirely) will make you better at the game, as it adds another strategy you can use and allows you to vary your style further. Matches against others who can wavedash become that much more entertaining. Thus, you can have more fun.

And since it's something anyone can learn, it's not reserved to an elite group of people.

If you don't want to learn to wavedash, I'm going to assume you're saying "I don't want to be better at this game." Granted, wavedashing doesn't instantly make you awesome, but it does increase your skill level if you can use it properly. I will never understand why some people don't want to improve themselves.

It's not like wavedashing is some painfully-easy but broken tactic that ensures a win if you can just hit a button. It's just another technique that adds further depth, strategy, and variety to your game, and is reasonably difficult to pull off for the rewards it gives. It may be an exploit, but it isn't an exploit that completely ruins the validity of games or player skill. The person with the most skill will win most of the time, and that's the goal.

Now if all you had to do to win was be the best wavedasher, it would be a problem, since the necessity of skill in other areas would be nullified. But that isn't the case. Wavedashing can actually increase the skill necessary to win between two wavedashers, in that mindgames become that much more important and dealing with wavedash-based techniques (waveshine, etc.) is something you'll have to do. In this way, it's good for the game.

What I'm about to say may seem off-topic, but if you'll bear with me you'll see how it relates to SSB.

I play an online game called Guild Wars, and my guild is ranked 27th out of thousands of guilds in the game, so I have a respectable amount of credibility when referring to the game. An ongoing problem has been "imba builds," which are basically team or character setups that provide an extreme advantage to the team using them with a ridiculously low amount of required skill to use. Generally, these are "spike" builds: highly defensive setups with multiple characters synchronizing high-damage skills on one target in order to kill it before the opposing team can react. There was recently one such build, called "rit spike" that was extremely bad for the game. For almost no Energy (mana, MP, whatever you want to call it) investment, you could use a skill that dealt 120 damage, cast quickly, and recharged quickly. With all eight members of the team using these three skills along with several "fire-and-forget" highly-defensive skills, a member of the opposing team could be killed once every five seconds very consistently (most people have about 600 Health, and with this spike, over 900 damage was dealt simultaneously). Using voice chat to synchronize the spike eliminated almost all skill required to use it, since you could be almost anywhere in relation to your teammates and still hit the target.

This was bad for the game because it was extremely powerful for almost no skill investment. The offending abilities were then changed to greatly decrease their power.

Wavedashing, however (and this is where I tie in to Guild Wars), is not bad for the game. It requires a decent amount of skill to use, and provides decent rewards. It's a versatile technique, so wavedashing doesn't force you to play in only one way, as the Guild Wars "rit spike" did (if you didn't synchronize a spike, it would be impossible to kill anything). It adds another layer of depth and strategy.

The only reason -not- to use it would be "It's an exploit, so it's morally wrong." Well in Guild Wars, teams abuse the fact that you cannot walk through opposing players in order to prevent movement or to "bodyblock" someone into an area. This was seen by the developers as an excellent usage of game mechanics, and requires a good amount of skill for a good reward, so the game's player-versus-player tutorial was amended to include instructions on using it. I consider wavedashing similar. It is not an insanely powerful technique, and its difficulty-to-reward ratio is nearly perfect. Regardless of whether or not it was an intended use of game mechanics, it certainly doesn't make it so that winning requires less skill. The -only- thing even questionable about it is the fact that it's a use of game mechanics not foreseen by the developers.

If you don't want to use it, it's fine. But it isn't cheap, it isn't "imbalanced," (to use a Guild Wars term), and it doesn't ensure a win. It adds more depth and strategy to the game, and provides an acceptable reward for the amount of skill required to use it, without increasing the chance that skill would be less of a factor in determining the outcome of a game.

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

From what I hear, exploits in games go unpunished nowadays in games like Mario Kart DS, where people use snaking to win races. Nobody likes to play against random people anymore because of the jerks who need exploits rather than skill to win races.

Wait, snaking in Mario Kart DS is an exploit? How the hell? It's rapid drift boosting.

I'll read everything past that later, I got a hockey game.

Peace

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

If you don't want to learn to wavedash, I'm going to assume you're saying "I don't want to be better at this game." Granted, wavedashing doesn't instantly make you awesome, but it does increase your skill level if you can use it properly. I will never understand why some people don't want to improve themselves.

well let me tell you that i always want to be better to improve , however i like the satisfaction of defeating someone who use wavedash (or snaking). and you're right it adds strategy to the game, now i have strategy to send flying a wavedasher.

to be better than someone you just have to defeat them, i know i hate wavedash and snaking, but the simple truth is that the best is the one that one that wins, (well except for the ones that use codes you can't deny that using codes is cheating)

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

well let me tell you that i always want to be better to improve , however i like the satisfaction of defeating someone who use wavedash (or snaking). and you're right it adds strategy to the game, now i have strategy to send flying a wavedasher.

to be better than someone you just have to defeat them, i know i hate wavedash and snaking, but the simple truth is that the best is the one that one that wins, (well except for the ones that use codes you can't deny that using codes is cheating)

Which was my entire point...Wavedashing doesn't give a massive advantage, so there's no point in condemning it, even if it is an exploit.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Which was my entire point...Wavedashing doesn't give a massive advantage, so there's no point in condemning it, even if it is an exploit.

well i think i misunderstood you.

anyway, the update of my music it really helps a lot, one of my complaints in melee is that i didn't like some of the random songs, like the one of F-zero, and i loved the fire emblem song (but anyway i know the trick to activate it) i think music is really important for this game, so this is a really good thing and another extra, now i will be interested in finding those CDs

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Wait, snaking in Mario Kart DS is an exploit? How the hell? It's rapid drift boosting.

Well, if you were to have a complete straightaway track with one snaker and one person just holding down the accelerator, who would win?

It's an exploit because you're only meant to be able to drift around curves. You know, like in reality.

[plasmix]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

It's an exploit because you're only meant to be able to drift around curves. You know, like in reality.

A higher-up from Nintendo says otherwise.

And Mario Kart isn't what I would call a driving simulator.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

No, he says nothing about it not being an exploit. He says it's not a bug and he's proud to use it.

Look, it's just stupid, ok? It takes all the fun out of competition if you're all repeatedly snaking around instead of JUST DRIVING.

If you intend to do this on MK Wii, I'll refuse to play you. Simple as that.

Play the game as it is intended to be played. You don't have to make a competition out of everything. It's just a friendly race!

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

squeek once brawl and mario kart wii are released i will challenge you XD, and anyone who wants to play, with the normal rules of super smash bros brawl

[plasmix]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Look, it's just stupid, ok? It takes all the fun out of competition if you're all repeatedly snaking around instead of JUST DRIVING.

...Fun is subjective, is it not? I think snaking can make a race more exciting just due to its erratic nature. And we all know you're not big on competition.

If you intend to do this on MK Wii, I'll refuse to play you. Simple as that.

Play the game as it is intended to be played. You don't have to make a competition out of everything. It's just a friendly race!

Miniturbo-ing isn't supposed to be limited to turns. Where did you get that idea? The article states that its use is legitimate everywhere. Exploitative? Not really. Good players will find it beneficial to use it as much as possible, because more boosts = faster = better.

Yes it's just friendly racing. ...And racing is competitive by nature. Hell, lots of games out there involve beating other people at something, and I take you to be a pretty serious gamer. There's being a laid-back, and there's having a poor attitude. Sorry to attack your character like that, but that's a terrible mentality to have.

(and sorry if I have blown what you said out of proportion)

[xinpig]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

i have the cd of 15 of the tracks from the game being performed live and it is really good

well i think i misunderstood you.

anyway, the update of my music it really helps a lot, one of my complaints in melee is that i didn't like some of the random songs, like the one of F-zero, and i loved the fire emblem song (but anyway i know the trick to activate it) i think music is really important for this game, so this is a really good thing and another extra, now i will be interested in finding those CDs

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

i have the cd of 15 of the tracks from the game being performed live and it is really good

ohh what i meant is about the hidden CDs in super smash bros brawl,

as for snaking, i don't find it beneficial, again you can use it if you want but that doesn't make you a better player that someone who doesn't snake (or wavedash).

but yes a race is also about competition, but it is also about fun, and i don't find any fun in moving my fingers like crazy from right to left again and again and again (i mean the movement of the snaking do not think i say it is not fun to move my fingers really fast in super smash).