Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

[The_Q]

RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Whorli, I did make that generalization and it is a good one. God changed from Old Testament to New. Remember, the Bible was written of thousands of years, and that means that God changed during that time. He went from an angry God to a loving God. Either this means he contradicted himself or there are two deities in the Christian faith.

And if you think about it, I'm pretty sure the devil (not Satan, Satan merely means adversary) might also count as a deity. So much for monotheism, folks.

Q

[Chromer]

RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

God didn't change. He is still the same God from thousands of years ago, just now more attuned to this way of life then back thousands of years ago. Back then, you had to worry about things that would seem trivial in this day and age. God is still an angry and loving God. Didn't God himslef say that a liar will not terror in his sight? That's anger buddy. That the ultimate price for the wages of sin is what? Death? Anger again appiled to today. He hasn't changed, the interpretations have, not Him.

Also, what's contradictory about Genesis? God made the Heavens and the Earth, animals and the first humans. Plain and simple son. Unless you want to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. Then I might have to agree with the whole incest thing between Lot and his daughters.

[whorlichan]

RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

The Ark of the Covenant...was kept in the Beit HaMikdash. In the "Holy of Holies," the room that only the high priest could enter, and then only on Yom Kippur. I believe it was taken out of the Temple before it was destroyed the last time, but I could be wrong. (Also, Indiana Jones found it, didn't he?)

And...what did that last part mean?

Unless you want to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. Then I might have to agree with the whole incest thing between Lot and his daughters.

Because actually, I believe Noah was the first to engage in incest...sodomized by his sons when they found him drunk and naked in his tent. But I'm not sure how Sodom and Gomorrah show contradiction in the Bible, if that is what you're going for. God said "be nice to travelers and give them hospitality" and they didn't. So he rained fire and doom upon them. (And some people read part of this story as "Sodomites were homosexual, so all gay people need to die." I don't like that part.)

Edit: Woah, you changed a lot of your post while I was replying, Chromer. There was definitely something in there about the Ark and sacrificing stuff.

[Chromer]

RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

But it is a clear sin that man shall not lie with another man nor a woman lie with another woman. It's in Deuteronomy but I can't remember the exact chapter. So overall, we must love one another, but God doesn't like you to be homosexual.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

THIS JUST IN: The Bible cannot be taken literally. It is not self-consistent and things it says are physically impossible.

Chromer, you say animals came before humans. According to the first creation account, you're right, but not according to the second account.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

What about the flood story? Did Noah really collect two of every species, fitting millions upon millions of creatures onto his small boat? Of course not. Well, some people claim he took only 30000 animals and the rest came from that lot. Well, that's still ridiculous to consider. It's just not possible.

There are two genealogies of Jesus descending from David, one in the Gospel of Matthew 1:6-16 and the other in Luke 3:21-31. They disagree in names and number. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...ra/gen_ml.html

Check your Bible.

Okay, so now that we've established that the Bible is not a historical or scientific text, I'd like to address the thread topic.

I'm with Whorli on this, but that's just because I've heard that we worship the same God. Muslims believe Jesus was a pretty badass prophet, but they disagree with us on giving him savior status. Is it too much of a stretch to think that we worship the same God? I don't think so. In fact, I find it kind of comforting.

EDIT for Chromer: Leviticus 18:22

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Chromer]

RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Well, I'm just saying that we all worship the same God, but we have different views on who the real "Savior" is. But how was Noah when he died? Over 800 right? And didn't God say he would not flood the Earth until Noah finished the Ark exactkly the way God wanted it too? So for all we know, he really could have built an Ark that could house millions of animals. However, until we see God face to face in Heaven and ask him ourselves, we'll never know.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Rough guesses (and seemingly common sense) would take all biblical ages and divide by 12. They counted 1 year as the turning of a new moon, not a revolution of the sun. Divide all those 300+ year ages by 12 and they actually make sense as realistic ages.

As we all know, people can be wrong (crusades, genocides, shoving the dualistic nature of deities into each other's faces)

Since when are we all in agreement that mass genocide, crusades, and good ole fashioned PPnR (Pillage, Plunder, & Rape) are wrong. Personally, I'd be very content with it, so long as I'm on the giving end, not the taking end.

Also, guys... there is a reason we don't do religion debates/threads here in CT... because they ALWAYS go to flames/arguments. Please stay on topic or I'm locking this. Lets try and keep the personal beliefs out of this.

PS - Sodomy rocks. Right Whorli?
PPS - Who said a women shouldn't lie with another women? Even Chardish likes lesbian porn.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Well, I'm just saying that we all worship the same God, but we have different views on who the real "Savior" is. But how was Noah when he died? Over 800 right? And didn't God say he would not flood the Earth until Noah finished the Ark exactkly the way God wanted it too? So for all we know, he really could have built an Ark that could house millions of animals. However, until we see God face to face in Heaven and ask him ourselves, we'll never know.

Uh, the ark was 300x50x30 cubits (roughly 440x73x44 feet), according to the Bible. Still waaaaayyy too small to house two of every animal (fourteen of every clean animal), keeping predators away from prey, having a level for dinosaurs (so some claim), and carrying food for all of them for seven days.

Oh, and Q, don't make the "people wrote the Bible" argument, because it's not exactly right. People transcribed words given to them by God. So, God wrote the Bible, people just put it into ink. However, people DID translate the Bible...

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[cmb]

Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

[quote="whorlichan"]Oh wow. Two years and over ten thousand hours of research. Excuse my sarcasm, but I'd prefer to take the opinions of actual Muslims and people who spend more than two years researching a religion that is just slightly more complex than that. I don't think you can learn very much in two years when a religion has behind it over 2000 years of history.

Ok first off did you even go to the website?''let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers.If any do that in nothing will there be help from Allah:exept by the way of precaution,that ye may guard yourselves from them''this basicly says don't make friends with unbelievers except''to guard yourself from them'';in other words pretend to be their friends.So i suggest that you look it up for yourself rather than take the word of a muslim cause they could be lying to you just to strengthen himself against you.So just read it for yourself,it won't take long for you to see how well....how screwed up the Quran,Allah,muhammed really are

And the you mentioned is completely biased against Muslims. They are NOT all terrorists. The terrorists we see on TV are, just like the Christian Fundamentalists, extreme fanatics that should NOT be taken as the norm for the Islamic people. You are completely ignoring this fact.

Your right not all muslims are terrorists theres really two kinds of muslims,the good muslims and the bad muslims.The good muslims folow muhammeds example and muhammed was a rapist,terrorist,and thief.Good muslims are the ones who are peacefull(allah hates peacefull muslims) the ones who really don't know the true nature of Allah and his prophet.

Also...why should the fact that his name is "Criag Winn" be of any importance?
Just telling you his name thats all.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

cmb... 1. please learn how to quote properly. 2. your racist views are nearly comical...



That aside, as I said above... keep personal beliefs out of the thread. If I have to say it a third time... well, I won't. I'll lock it.

[whorlichan]

RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

cmb, this IS the Critical Thinking forum. Could you at least spell-check your posts, and put a spaces in after your commas and quotations? Not to mention you messed up the quote tags.

I'll address each of your points separately, with corrected grammar and spelling.

"Don't make friends with unbelievers except to guard yourself from them" -- while I doubt this is the actual Qu'ran quote, I recall something similar from my readings. It means don't let anyone lure you away from your religion...which won't happen if you truly believe in it. It does not mean "pretend to be their friends."

"Look it up rather than take the world of a Muslim because they could be lying to you just to strengthen themselves against you" -- I have no idea why a Muslim who is trying to explain his/her religion would lie about it. It wouldn't strengthen them; it would lower them in their God's eyes. If anything, they should be trying to convert me, and that requires truth about their religious practices.

"So just read it for yourself, it won't take long for you to see how well...how screwed up the Qu'ran, Allah, Mohammad really are." -- This is really...if not racist, then completely religion-ist. Is there a word for that? According to you, Islam is "screwed up." According to them, other religions are wrong, not "screwed up." I can't see what you're saying as anything but a hateful comment made with a biased, xenophobic outlook.

"You're right, not all Muslims are terrorists. There are really two kinds of Muslims, the good Muslims and the bad Muslims. The good Muslims follow Mohammad's example, and Mohammad was a rapist, terrorist, and thief. Good Muslims are the ones who are peaceful (Allah hates peaceful Muslims), the ones who really don't know the true nature of Allah and his prophet." -- Wow. I cannot express how wrong you are here, not to mention that you contradict yourself--are good Muslims peaceful, or rapist/terrorists/thieves? In any case, most Muslims are NOT ANY ONE OF THOSE. Mohammad was neither a rapist nor a terrorist nor a thief. He had a wife that he was faithful to (and later, more wives, but that was legal in those days) and a family he was loyal to. He was not a terrorist--he was a prophet and a businessman. He was not a thief--I don't even know where you got this from. And "Allah hates peaceful Muslims"? WTF. Seriously. The 5 Pillars of Islam say NOTHING about killing people or being non-peaceful. They are the very BASIS of Islam, and they refer only to belief, prayer, charity, a journey to Mecca, and fasting during Ramadan. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say you shouldn't be peaceful, and nowhere in the Qu'ran is terrorism MENTIONED, much less accepted or allowed or asked for.

On a lighter note...is it really ironic that I, a Jew, am explaining why Islam is not evil?

[sleeplessdragn]

RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Nay, for that is one purpose of education. To understand points of views.

Myself, I have no religion. So it is threads like these that I really enjoy because I can learn about the many differing viewpoints about religion and how it has affected others.

[cowboy_b_bop2787]

See, my personal beliefs are that all gods are the same god. That whatever created us, whatever it may be, knew that we would not all believe in the same thing. It chose to show itself as God to the Christians, Allah to the Muslums, Shiva to the Hindi's and so on and so forth.

[Chromer]

Well Buddha, Muhhamad, Jesus, Jews and everytbody else all worship one thing: God. End of story.

[cmb]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

[.

Don't make friends with unbelievers except to guard yourself from them" -- while I doubt this is the actual Qu'ran quote, I recall something similar from my readings. It means don't let anyone lure you away from your religion...which won't happen if you truly believe in it. It does not mean "pretend to be their friends."
Yeah that wasn't the best verse to choose to make the my point.Qur'an 9:5''fight and kill the disbelievers where ever you find them,harass them,lie in wait and ambush them USING EVERY STRATAGEM OF WAR.''
The definition for stratagem is ''A military manuever designed to deceive or suprise an enemy''so i would be cautious when taking the word of a dedicated muslim.Oh and that was a quote from the Qur'an.

"Look it up rather than take the world of a Muslim because they could be lying to you just to strengthen themselves against you" -- I have no idea why a Muslim who is trying to explain his/her religion would lie about it. It wouldn't strengthen them; it would lower them in their God's eyes. If anything, they should be trying to convert me, and that requires truth about their religious practices.
To advance the cause of Allah of course they would lie to you.If they told you the truth of Allah and his Prophet you would never accept Islam.

So just read it for yourself, it won't take long for you to see how well...how screwed up the Qu'ran, Allah, Mohammad really are." -- This is really...if not racist, then completely religion-ist. Is there a word for that? According to you, Islam is "screwed up." According to them, other religions are wrong, not "screwed up." I can't see what you're saying as anything but a hateful comment made with a biased, xenophobic outlook.Ok read these verses, perhaps you'll see what I mean TaboriIX:113 ''Allah permits you to shut them(your wives)in a separate room and to beat them,but not severely.If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing.treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they posses nothing themselves.Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an.''TabariIX:13''My mother came to me while i was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down.My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me.When i was at the door she stopped so i could catch my breath.I was then brought in while the messenger was sitting on the bed in our house.My mother made me sit om his lap.Then the men and women got up and left.The prophet consummated his marriage with me im my house I was nine years old.''TaboriIX:137''Allah granted Rayhanah of the[jewish]Qurayza to his messenger as booty[but only after she had been forced to watch him decapitate her father and brother,seen her mother be hauled off to be raped,and her sister sold into slavery].''

Wow. I cannot express how wrong you are here, not to mention that you contradict yourself--are good Muslims peaceful, or rapist/terrorists/thieves? In any case, most Muslims are NOT ANY ONE OF THOSE. Mohammad was neither a rapist nor a terrorist nor a thief. He had a wife that he was faithful to (and later, more wives, but that was legal in those days) and a family he was loyal to. He was not a terrorist--he was a prophet and a businessman. He was not a thief--I don't even know where you got this from. And "Allah hates peaceful Muslims"? WTF. Seriously. The 5 Pillars of Islam say NOTHING about killing people or being non-peaceful. They are the very BASIS of Islam, and they refer only to belief, prayer, charity, a journey to Mecca, and fasting during Ramadan. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say you shouldn't be peaceful, and nowhere in the Qu'ran is terrorism MENTIONED, much less accepted or allowed or asked for.[/color]Yeah sorry i was kinda rushing.I meant good muslims are are terrorist etc.Most muslims aren't terrorist etc and they wouldn't remain muslims if they knew how violent Islam is.Mohammed was a pedophile TaboriIX:128''When the prophet married Aisha she was very young and not yet ready for consummation.''And Bukhari:v9b87n139-40''Allah's Apotle told Aisha ,'you were shown to me in a dream[a.k.a sexual fantasies].I beheld a man or angel carring you in a silken cloth.He said to me,'She is yours, so uncover her.'And behold, it was you.I would then say to my self,'if this is from Allah,then it must happen.''And Allah does hate muslim hypocrites Qur'an 9:68''Allah has promised the hypocrites, both man and women, and the disbelievers the fire of hell for their abode:Therein shall they dwell.It will suffice them.On them is the curse of allah,and an enduring punishment,a lasting torment.''
I don't know where you got the impression that I was racist considering I said nothing racist...but whatever.However I do hate religion.