ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

everyone is super demoralized in both games it looks like. I think it's time to take action and leave the rest to God.

storn

We only have control over what we have control over. For me at least, this is emotionally reassuring. We are doing the best we can. This is why I have belief in mechanically-proper plays. If we make a risky power play and it's incorrect, we bear full responsibility for that. If we stick to the books and it's incorrect, we "did the right thing" and it ended up not working out.

I think Game 2's choice is pretty cut-and-dry. Overthinking things too hard is not going to return peace of mind. Game 1 is counting on us to deliver information to them, and a storn flip is the mechanically proper choice here.

[Charu]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

I'm hesitant to call voting for storn's flip...

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""mechanical"""""""""""""""""""""""""""

...when the issue we are at is because of an unsureness of a basic game function.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

It's clear no amount of convincing can be given with what we have, and I painfully understand the circumstances and reasonings of why you're saying storn should be flipped.

I just hate that it's based off of this idea that PRs can't do anything.

And I can't fault backpack for his line of reasoning because... nothing like this has ever happened in TWG. Hell, nothing like this has ever happened ANYWHERE that I know of that has Mafia games.

So it's useless at this point. I'm just going to sit here, read the thread, and hope for the best.

I understand your feelings, and at this point I am loathe to make any further assumptions about Game 2's mechanics.

I elaborated a theory about the game going in reverse, which if true, means that nightkills cannot mechanically happen. I don't even care if that's true or not right now tbh. The only facts we have about this game is that we can get color-flips from players by lynching them.

I have zero indication that "parity" is even a thing in this game. We have zero evidence of nightkills either.

Our best plan is to leverage what we DO know--- that we can generate color-flips--- to provide info to Game 1: a game that we are reasonably certain is tied to our win conditions.

Like I said earlier, I'm not even sure that Game 2 is even a "game" to begin with. This phase, I have been directing my energy towards Game 1 as purely a support role because their game is, well, almost certainly actually a "game."

And flipping storn is bar-none the best information we can supply to Game 1.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

I'm hesitant to call voting for storn's flip...

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""mechanical"""""""""""""""""""""""""""

...when the issue we are at is because of an unsureness of a basic game function.

I mean "mechanical" in the context of the richness of information storn's flip provides to Game 1.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Maybe to make this easier.

You are asserting that storn cannot be a wolf because no night-kills happened last night.

This is an assumption. If we wanted to test your theory, we would have to wait until someone dies here in the night--- which won't ever happen if your assumption is wrong.

Game 1 needs this, Charu. They need this NOW.

WE need this. I need this. storn's flip is required for us to determine what to do with ben once he gets here.

[Charu]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Well, if storn flips red, I guess I'll have no choice but to accept this bizarre game and just assume it's all about flipping.

But I will point out that it was the host that posted in THIS GAME about willing ourselves to be flipped. He wouldn't have made that announcement if it meant what we were doing before was helping the other game figure out flips. If you recall, we were going to lynch from the three of us to give town, based on our deaths, one flip.

[Charu]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Bah, maybe I'm taking the host's announcement about us willingly flipping ourselves a bit too literal.

He wouldn't have made that announcement otherwise, right?

[Charu]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

alright, this is the last mod announcement where I hold your hand that I'm going to make, you guys are on your own after this

Do you guys genuinely believe that I'd make a game where it would be fine for an alignment to be complacent with dying? Your win condition is still at stake, and there is still much game to be played here.

Particularly this sentence in bold.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Well, if storn flips red, I guess I'll have no choice but to accept this bizarre game and just assume it's all about flipping.

But I will point out that it was the host that posted in THIS GAME about willing ourselves to be flipped. He wouldn't have made that announcement if it meant what we were doing before was helping the other game figure out flips. If you recall, we were going to lynch from the three of us to give town, based on our deaths, one flip.

This is angleshooting; we don't know WHY he timed it the way he did. Maybe he kept getting PMs about it. idk.

I can explain that with: "townies don't want to get lynched because a red flip helps town. Wolves don't want to get lynched because a red flip helps town."

Earlier on, ESPECIALLY yesterday, Game 2 was more lax about the lynch process because they wanted to learn the mechanics. I think sunfan came here to say that the outcome of the lynch actually MATTERS in the context of the game itself.

The above theory explains that host response.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Particularly this sentence in bold.

There is no contradiction.

I am not "ok" with dying because I will flip green and that is a complete waste of a phase.

storn is not "ok" with dying because of that same reason, OR because he knows that flipping red will give crucial information to town.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Bah, maybe I'm taking the host's announcement about us willingly flipping ourselves a bit too literal.

He wouldn't have made that announcement otherwise, right?

Charu, I seem to remember YOU being complacent being flipped today. This might have been exactly what sunfan was referring to.

Just like in a regular game... zero players feel complacent to sacrifice themselves just for a color-flip because that is a completely wasted phase if they are town. And obviously wolves don't want to be flipped either. They would absolutely prefer to waste a phase if they could.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

You might ultimately be correct about the nightkill thing. But regardless, storn's flip IS REQUIRED for us to decide how to resolve Ben tomorrow.

[Charu]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Look, I was all on board about the flipping.

Don't tell me I'm angleshooting because the host decided to come down and announce what he did. What should I do, ignore it and not ponder why the host decided to come down and announce something?

/shrug

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Look, I was all on board about the flipping.

Don't tell me I'm angleshooting because the host decided to come down and announce what he did. What should I do, ignore it and not ponder why the host decided to come down and announce something?

/shrug

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to point fingers. I guess I'm trying to get all of us on the same page here. A united front so to speak.

If you're town then I value your feedback tremendously and I want to make sure I can assuage your fears so that the town front doesn't end up fracturing.

Game 1 needs us. I think, right now, the game is at a major junction. This is why I care so much about setting things up properly.

[DaBackpack]

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT

Regarding info... what we have is what we have. The are certainly mechanics we aren't aware of yet. But I don't think it's productive to let the specter of these "unknown unknowns" govern our thinking too much. The best we can do is generate as much info as we can while also keeping ourselves afloat.

@everyone

If we believe that storn/Ben was w/t, then given that we have neither of their flips and that we might be on the precipice of immediate loss......

Both of them have to die to guarantee we don't lose.