TWG 194 - Game Thread

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

These tinfoil reads on me are honestly bad. Cherrypicking my posts out of context to put your own spin on it is also bad. And it looks worse coming from Haku than it does Bolth, what with the latest flipflop to agree with whoever's currently in thread.

You say my play has been "annoyingly flawless", and "it's easy to say what everyone wants to hear", but that ignores every disruption I've made. It ignores my every interaction. It ignores how, when DBP and Dusk had just crossed, and literally everyone was against Dusk and actively arguing to leave DBP alone, I was the first to make a case against DBP. When Dusk was universally viewed as the scum, I tone-read him, defended him, and pushed DBP instead. You supposedly scum-read for doing that, to the point where you were ready to "thunderdome" me over it yesterday, but then think I'm his partner today?

I'll take the "annoyingly flawless" part as a compliment, but trying to use *good* play to argue for why I'm wolf isn't just bad, it blatantly disregards my plays themselves and the definitively pro-town impact they've had. You forget I'm a power wolf too. If I was scum with DBP, you really think I blow up his spot and get a partner lynched and the other exposed when the two of us would almost certainly be able to steer a lynch together? You know me better than that, and all this flipflopping is really starting to stink

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

That reminds me of Roundbox's tower posts without the army of quotes.

I'm kind of curious here what was the intention in terms of solving.

It feels like pure commentary which is interesting, but also vaguely going anywhere.

ffs it's my notes while reading through the massive D0
I take notes while catching up 'cause I can't respond to everything individually or even quote them or it'd just be wall after wall after wall and gets ignored. If you can't see how it helps me solve game and read slots, then idk what to tell you

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'm doing this because I have a ton of games where I'm like

[haha Bolth obvious wolf]
[let's not read a single Shadow post]
[vote Bolth]
[Bolth flips town]
[Wolves win]

I literally did zero work on evaluating you this game until now because you were simply never on the table.

The thing is that we're going in a F4/F3 and you're probably stuck with me.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

ffs it's my notes while reading through the massive D0
I take notes while catching up 'cause I can't respond to everything individually or even quote them or it'd just be wall after wall after wall and gets ignored. If you can't see how it helps me solve game and read slots, then idk what to tell you

I mean, it's not like every players asked you 7-8 questions.

You just took a bunch of posts that were semi relevant from each players and explained the equivalent of fun facts.

I got the classic Haku Town Read™ in it too yay..

I'm still reading, don't mind me tho.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'm doing this because I have a ton of games where I'm like

[haha Bolth obvious wolf]
[let's not read a single Shadow post]
[vote Bolth]
[Bolth flips town]
[Wolves win]

I literally did zero work on evaluating you this game until now because you were simply never on the table.

The thing is that we're going in a F4/F3 and you're probably stuck with me.

ok then like read them now instead of just carrying a tinfoil read over
like really really read them
bash your head against my every post. look at heated situations and not heated situations. look at the context and remember the gamestate at the time. try to find what I really want. do it now, and when you come up thinking "k he's town after all" remember that feeling and stick to it.

'cause FYI, the last time you said exactly what you're saying here, you ended up fearlynching me in F3 vs sunfan and I really don't want that happening again if you're town

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

These tinfoil reads on me are honestly bad. Cherrypicking my posts out of context to put your own spin on it is also bad. And it looks worse coming from Haku than it does Bolth, what with the latest flipflop to agree with whoever's currently in thread.

You say my play has been "annoyingly flawless", and "it's easy to say what everyone wants to hear", but that ignores every disruption I've made. It ignores my every interaction. It ignores how, when DBP and Dusk had just crossed, and literally everyone was against Dusk and actively arguing to leave DBP alone, I was the first to make a case against DBP. When Dusk was universally viewed as the scum, I tone-read him, defended him, and pushed DBP instead. You supposedly scum-read for doing that, to the point where you were ready to "thunderdome" me over it yesterday, but then think I'm his partner today?

I'll take the "annoyingly flawless" part as a compliment, but trying to use *good* play to argue for why I'm wolf isn't just bad, it blatantly disregards my plays themselves and the definitively pro-town impact they've had. You forget I'm a power wolf too. If I was scum with DBP, you really think I blow up his spot and get a partner lynched and the other exposed when the two of us would almost certainly be able to steer a lynch together? You know me better than that, and all this flipflopping is really starting to stink

Well, if you're a wolf, you already know DBP is a wolf so, if things doesn't work out, you can wash your hands with it and get the win later on because you're in a clean state.
If you're town, I need to identify what happened to you to wolf read DBP in the first place and understand if it makes sense.

My main take is that you town read MML relatively early in the game, but it's not a read I could get myself during most of the game.

Basically, I'm trying to inform myself about your game progression to be like "oh you think this because of this" rather than "magically having the right thoughts at the right time".

Sorry for not being quick at connecting the dots together.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Dusk I just wanna say from now if the beef with DBP was invented and y'all end up being partners, then major props to you both on the grade A plan & execution

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Dusk I just wanna say from now if the beef with DBP was invented and y'all end up being partners, then major props to you both on the grade A plan & execution

That sounds like something that should get evaluated as well tbh.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'll take the "annoyingly flawless" part as a compliment, but trying to use *good* play to argue for why I'm wolf isn't just bad, it blatantly disregards my plays themselves and the definitively pro-town impact they've had. You forget I'm a power wolf too. If I was scum with DBP, you really think I blow up his spot and get a partner lynched and the other exposed when the two of us would almost certainly be able to steer a lynch together? You know me better than that, and all this flipflopping is really starting to stink

That looks real enough. Do you think Dusk could have been pulling strings or that it's Bolth most of the time here ?

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Well, if you're a wolf, you already know DBP is a wolf so, if things doesn't work out, you can wash your hands with it and get the win later on because you're in a clean state.
If you're town, I need to identify what happened to you to wolf read DBP in the first place and understand if it makes sense.

My main take is that you town read MML relatively early in the game, but it's not a read I could get myself during most of the game.

Basically, I'm trying to inform myself about your game progression to be like "oh you think this because of this" rather than "magically having the right thoughts at the right time".

Sorry for not being quick at connecting the dots together.

with regard to DBP, my mental progression early game was that he seemed different but alright overall. I know he's been resenting what he feels is a meta expectation other people have of him to come in and go hard EoD to "save" EoD. I had talked to him about it at the end of that game and told him no one needs him to play hero and that he can just chill and everything will be fine, but he seemed to disagree with my entire premise and pmuch ignored me. Point is, I was content in seeing his change in EoD play in this game because I hoped he was doing it in an effort to change that expectation / his response to it.
only problem with that is, since he was playing differently than normal, I kept wanting more from him and could only operate on what little I got. The first reason I had to suspect him came during the EoD where we lynched Xiz. Towards the end, Xiz' tone got really pure and I started feeling like it was a miss. I asked DBP if he saw what I was seeing 'cause he's normally got solid reads as town, and he said something along the lines of "not really".
Now, Xiz was mechanically the right lynch, but hearing that he didn't see the change in tone was surprising and a little worrying, especially after Xiz flipped.

None of that mattered much anymore the next day, though, because FFA seemed to have gotten a redcheck on DBP. When DBP counterclaimed by saying he had blocked FFA the night before, my first thought was something along of "huh, yeah right, that's awfully convenient". Even after reading MML's claim and realizing that FFA wasn't cop, I still doubted DBP's claim 'cause of how funky that timing is. I think I wrote something about it at the time, and wrote a post about how FFA's flip definitively determines DBP's alignment. Once FFA rescinded, that kinda went out the window 'cause the red check got retracted, but the suspicion was still there. It all sorta piled up in that next phase, when dusk and DBP went head to head. Dusk had been seeming better and better of late, and DBP still hadn't given me anything make me think he was town. That's when I first sat down and actively considered the world where he's scum and made my case against him, and the rest since then is prolly fresh in your mind

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

That sounds like something that should get evaluated as well tbh.

That looks real enough. Do you think Dusk could have been pulling strings or that it's Bolth most of the time here ?

I promise I'm gonna evaluate Dusk eventually. My schedule's been really hectic this week 'cause we have three ongoing projects each hitting critical phases. I just want to get a firmer grasp on you and bolth before going the tinfoil route. I guess I'm second guessing myself 'cause bolth has posts (usually when he's scumreading me lmao) where he seems genuine af

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Assume Jessie used the 1-shot mafia cop role on Bolth.
I guess DBP would be able to say he roleblocked Bolth without town knowing if Bolth was a PR or not.

I had a bit of wolf read on Bolth because I thought DBP would roleblock a wolf partner to not have to deal with an hypothetical counterclaim.
I tend to believe that world because wolves didn't really NK PRs until MML.

I'm just wondering if Duskfall is really as clear as he should be.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

On that note, I'm off for the night. It's nearly 3am and I gotta be up in a few hours.

I'll try to be on when I can thru tomorrow, but it's gonna be an intense day so don't expect too much of me.

g'night

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Assume Jessie used the 1-shot mafia cop role on Bolth.
I guess DBP would be able to say he roleblocked Bolth without town knowing if Bolth was a PR or not.

I had a bit of wolf read on Bolth because I thought DBP would roleblock a wolf partner to not have to deal with an hypothetical counterclaim.
I tend to believe that world because wolves didn't really NK PRs until MML.

I'm just wondering if Duskfall is really as clear as he should be.

"I thought DBP would roleblock a wolf partner to not have to deal with an hypothetical counterclaim."

Can you explain this thought in some depth for me please?
anytime is ok. I'm going to bed now so I won't see your response til later (prolly lol) anyway. thanks

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I've been probably wrong in every possible way in this game. It's kinda funny.

g'night

It's almost 6 am here too. rip.