TWG 194 - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

If your schedule is terrible tomorrow, we can extend this phase too.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

It is the correct play for wolves in mylo to stack the town player and pressure a few town players to take the wrong decision.

Definitely, my concern is that it’s just as correct to wait for towns to make that wrong decision and then stack up to insta afterwards.

Keeping one or two wolves off the wagon allows for more control over the mislynch.

Obviously, yesterday didn’t go in the wolves favour, but whatever has happened, whether it was you realising a dusk lynch wasn’t happening or Wolfe not needing to swap over last minute to cause an insta, has kept their last wolf a lot safer and has set me up for mislynch. I think it was pretty obvious that I wanted to and was going to vote for dusk. I think wolves took advantage of that. There was no need for all 3 to stack

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Definitely, my concern is that it’s just as correct to wait for towns to make that wrong decision and then stack up to insta afterwards.

Keeping one or two wolves off the wagon allows for more control over the mislynch.

Obviously, yesterday didn’t go in the wolves favour, but whatever has happened, whether it was you realising a dusk lynch wasn’t happening or Wolfe not needing to swap over last minute to cause an insta, has kept their last wolf a lot safer and has set me up for mislynch. I think it was pretty obvious that I wanted to and was going to vote for dusk. I think wolves took advantage of that. There was no need for all 3 to stack

Well, technically the game isn't fully solved for me.

It's a Bolth vs ShadoWolfe.

I'm fairly confident everyone else is town tho.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Well, I feel mighty stupid voting on a wolf wagon yesterday. It's good news for town though, I honestly thought the game was done for. Guys, why would all scum out themselves like that, and why would none of them jump on jessie, the easiest bus ever?

I know I haven't done the most work out of anyone all game, but I think its the worst time to get cocky and assume the game is figured out. I'm not scum.

It is extremely unlikely Dusk is scum with DbP after yesterday, so I'm taking him off the table. (If he actually is scum then mvp for wolf team theatre), and I'm obviously taking Leetic off the table

So Shadowe or Haku is our last wolf. At this point I don't really know who has more equity with Jessie and Dbp. I think both players could have equity with anyone in the game, which makes it a bit more difficult. I'm gonna Iso them both over the course of this phase and hopefully have a better lead.

The more I read this, the more I feel like I'm reading the perspective of a third person view rather than a town player having concerns between who's the wolf in Shado/Haku.

welp.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

The more I read this, the more I feel like I'm reading the perspective of a third person view rather than a town player having concerns between who's the wolf in Shado/Haku.



welp.

Just a bit dejected, I feel like I’ve been played the entire game

You being scum makes the most sense to me based on the two possibilities I’m stuck between, but I’m townreading your posts a lot more than Wolfe’s

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Just a bit dejected, I feel like I’ve been played the entire game

You being scum makes the most sense to me based on the two possibilities I’m stuck between, but I’m townreading your posts a lot more than Wolfe’s

How do you feel about Shado being down for voting you.

Duskfall also felt like it was you as well.

There's even older posts where FG/Xiz were interested into voting you.

Your entrance mini wall ironically links you to DBP with the vote even if random.

You have a lot of posts centered around DBP in a similar fashion as jessie.

Looks like your votes were

D1 -> leetic (with me)
D2 -> Xiz (with Shadow and me)
D3 -> Duskfall (alone)
D4 -> Duskfall (alone with 2 wolves)

Not your best game if town.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'll try to evaluate Shado/Ulli.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

How do you feel about Shado being down for voting you.



Duskfall also felt like it was you as well.



There's even older posts where FG/Xiz were interested into voting you.



Your entrance mini wall ironically links you to DBP with the vote even if random.



You have a lot of posts centered around DBP in a similar fashion as jessie.



Looks like your votes were



D1 -> leetic (with me)

D2 -> Xiz (with Shadow and me)

D3 -> Duskfall (alone)

D4 -> Duskfall (alone with 2 wolves)



Not your best game if town.

Wolfe wasn’t actually really on my radar until he got all giddy about dusks read on me, which something was really off about , I’ll go back and find the post gimme like 20 I’m not home, but yea it felt like he was looking for a reason to jump on a Bolth wagon and he found it in that post

Not my best game, no, i struggled with the mechanical inconsistencies and let it effect my reads and confidence levels, and when the Xiz and ffa things happened, I couldn’t really think about anything else out until they were sorted in my head

[Bolth mannn]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

bolth just feels like he has been kind of preaching about like me not solving, but he doesn't seem to be trying himself earlier today he expressed frustration about me being able to get townread without posting/reading thread properly and that if he could do the same he could.

I think this is kind of perspective slippy because he wants me to read thread to kind of solve to look townier, but he is saying he only reads thread to look towny. On one hand he is saying i am scum for not efforting on the other hand he is saying if he could do the same and get townread he could so it is like, he is really doing what he thinks is towny because he thinks that is towny and he is pushing the opposite without really trying to read the play. He is attempting to act towny, not solve the game. Yes i am being a hypocrite rn, no i dont care it is what it is me and bolth are different players.

Thank you thank you thank you

OK so the PoE read on me makes sense I guess. If your options are me and jessie, then I can understand how an inactive slot will always feel like mislynch bait due its nature.

Haku I don't agree with as much because he's been known to support zany stances as town. What gives me pause there is that he's normally good at mechanics based solves, even to the point of figuring out literally every possibility and then spending all night tinfoiling them until he arrives at said zany stance. So coming with a "mechanics" plan to mass claim based on the reasoning he gave doesn't feel like his normal solving capabilities.

But the reason I was especially happy to see this post is 'cause that bolth read is solid. I read the post where he said he wonders why he posts if all he has to do to get townread is not post and it gave me pause as well, so that read makes most sense to me here

Here's my original interaction with Dusk:

Oh I haven't been reading the game very much

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother reading the thread when you can get townread by everyone for doing nothing

This is probably a slip LOL

I’ve made some sort of a supposed slip every single game I’ve played, idek what part of my post you’re referring to

It's the part where you forgot you are meant to be solving the game bolth and commented on how reading the thread isn't a necessary part of your play, because you only want to be townread not solve. If you could get townread without looking like you are solving the game you would but you don't feel comfortable doing so

So perspective slip

Of course I want to be fucking town read

I’m trying to solve but people keep throwing me in the lynch pool without any sort of real reasoning, and anybody I push just gets brushed off.

It is clear to me that wolves are leading the direction of this game, and I feel absolutely powerless as a player to stop it.

Anyway, I still think that this was a very weak reason to scumread someone and was what really started my suspicions on Dusk besides him not actually reading anyone.

For Wolfe to jump in after this interaction and say ''I was especially happy with your reads Dusk cause that bolth read is really solid'' really made me question wolfe's motives. You're right, Haku, that all his other posts seem very carefully crafted, safe, and ''perfect''. Wolfe's vote at EoD is also prime safety vote, Jessie was an easy and safe bus and it would have been very easy to swing to Dusk if the opportunity arose.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I played another very long game where I loss to a wolf ShadoWolfe before in a F3 and it's because I kept failing to see anything about his plays.

Townies tend to do things that could be considered mistakes, but that aren't necessarily real ones.

e.g: "omg MML forgot his check as a Roleblocker, he's clearly a disorganized wolf 111 etc.".

If you're wolfing and you already know how everything unfold, it's easy to just say what everyone wants to hear and like be constantly at the right place at the right time.

At same time, I kind of hate scum reading people over this because look at your first game. I literally went like "ah this is too good to be true" and got on a stupid crusade against you.

Now you display something that looks more disorganized and I'm not even sure if it's you downgrading your game or if the game was simply so chaotic that it was hard to get a feel for it.

tl;dr: you're tricky to read, but I might be more likely to figure out your alignment than Shado's.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Duskfall
weird vibes off duskfall's repeated "i'm a wolf" jokes in the beginning. went a bit farther like he didn't know where to stop / got uncomfortable and felt going farther was better
ugh duskfall coming back with #504 and #507 makes me physically uncomfortable from the awkwardness. I remember dusk being a formidable force, and I hope he goes back to that because all this "look at me I'm towny I'll even joke about beeing a woof and joke about not bothering to solve the game and joke about randomizing lynch and say other people are townier than me" is lightweight nauseating
#783 "I want to know why you were suggesting me and ulle as partners, I don't really care if you are sticking with or not i want to know the full process of how you got there" looks good in retrospect to be cautious of being tied to ulle, indicates not knowing she's town. this follows #729, #742, and #765 asking the same question trying to get thru to Haku. Persistence looks good too, though its all he responded to in 60 posts across an hour of checking in
#789 last post before leaving thru EoD. this was EoD 1h-38m.

DBP pulling a Precarious here on the mad mechanics is meh
oh he's self aware about it. -"I hate that so many of my posts have been about this but I think it's important to establish the "why"" - this is honestly fair. even reading up, I could see myself getting caught in the argument of lynching inactives D0 vs going after active wolves, so I can relate to getting caught in it while hating that its consuming my time
#387 "I was gonna wait for Xiz to come back but I'll just elaborate on this now " good intro to a good catch on the SK thing. the only peeps thinking about SK before a flip are usually woofs tryna fish.
#420 yup yup yup DBP might be good after all
#832 vote on psycho seems to be following up on voting inactives and following Xiz. EoD -43m


Leetic
leetic called out ull for a "typical scum intro" but then did the same exact thing himself
leetic seems hyperfocused on MML for what I don't see as productive reasons, but this: " Is it bad that this is the closest thing to a read that I have seen from you? I mean, we can criticize inactives but you have posted more than anyone else and your ISO is rather shallow." post to DBP pinged me as genuine frustration
#548 calls out xiz saying he didn't want to be top poster as a deflection. makes sense, could be a genuine thought (or just riding the anti-xiz wave?)
#861 comes back for the first time since the xiz claim with a vote on FFA, then drops slank for EoD in the following post. #861 was just 2 minutes after FG joined FFA and MML in expressing discomfort at the absence.
#928 a vote on psycho at EoD -1m (self-pres just in case?) after staying silent and watching the count. votes were 5/4 split after Bolth voted leetic so it'd be too close for comfort without a self pres, though his silence is definitely sus. idk what FFA is waiting for but this better be god-tier
#comes out as 1shot cop with a greencheck on FG with a great soft. there's worlds to look at here but what's actionable right now is accepting the claim and check as is


FFA
FFA town. response to DBP shift solid. WAAAAAAAIT #490 is a craftier FFA that's way more wolf!FFA than any town I've ever seen him. really really sus. it's a good post coming from anyone else
#552, 555, 556 good progression going into the frustration in #562
#602 vibing with this man, FFA's reactions to the whole Xiz thing have been primo meld
#722 avoids a really easy opportunity to go for an easy lynch that's building momentum by saying no after being asked if he'd vote ulle, then says MML's pov against FG's read is really pure. Looks great in retrospect.
#848 after pushing FG wagon, reminds FG he's openminded but "as a whole you just seem less invested in resolving specific slots than usual. what does that mean? idk. but I'm surprised nobody wants to vote you"
#875 ??? leetic is lock town pending the intensity and focus of their case against FFA... after having disappeared for nearly half the phase? if you haven't elaborated on this, I'm curious whyyyyyy
#907 votes psycho EoD-5mins after a VC where its 3/3/2 for leetic/psycho/FG with a note "I still think xiz is wolfing. just following mech" which is the most oddly compliant I've ever seen FFA. Considering I've seen him hold his vote on a target alone thru EoD and not regret it the next day, this is a strange departure. @FFA what's changed?


FG
not liking this hovering from FG. seems off. like a general overt "i'm your friiiieeeeeend" while posting more just seems like she's writing to mask her inactive wolf meta of late
#405 a solidly townh post from FG in response to MML's prod. also "i think no one has been satisfied with his recent play style" wrt DBP is lw such a burn tho.
nice, turning the page from writing Haku town and first post on the new page is FG: "haku's town god bless"
the posts
#658 hard defense *again* on leetic. knowing someone's town meta is not the same thing as being able to recognize their wolfgame
#705 sudden switch to "i mean we /can/ kill jess i'd feel bad about it but we /can/" after pushing a Ulle lynch for the last few posts is weird considering the only time jessie's been mentioned in over 100 posts is Ulle herself leaving jessie as one of her suspicions before leaving.. basically backs up as soon as Ulle provides an alternative to leetic
#731 unvotes as momentum around ulle shifts away, then votes jess.
#757 FG asks FFA about dusk and says she's gonna ISO him, then quotes one post and stops her ISO with "I guess I don't gotta finish isoing him thanks FFA" when FFA says "dusk is ok"
#775 "I'm faking most of the confidence but confidence is there" wrt leetic... I'm realizing part of my issue with FG is that it feels like she's just throwing shit everywhere to see what sticks and then walking back anything that feels tough
#856 "yeah leetic wth" agreeing with FFA/MML saying leetic's absence has them worried. feels wrong to walk back the hard leetic defense, but I could see this being due to the prolonged absence getting her nervous as well
#885 "reiterating my intention to vote psychoangel if she doesn't show up" cmonn psycho is below the post minimum EoD -14m and no one has noticed she's below post minimum ughh
#917 finally votes psycho after waiting to EoD -3m.. I can't remember the last time FG's been this careful to project her vote ahead in an EoD
oh nice #926 switches to jess "y'all don't need my psycho vote jess is scum" this is more like FG EoDs lol
daaaang greenchecked! by.. leetic..! whelp, I'll accept this for now. in any case, this will play itself out one way or another.


Haku
Haku town. #410 especially so town even tho the point is misdirected.
#461 hahahahahahahahahaha omg Haku town
#522 huh. why not consider duskfall til D3? that's a hard defense for an iffy recipient, with a pushed vote on Xiz to further the point.
mmmm I really don't like #524-527. It feels like a contrived stance after the #522 defense. If dusk flips red, I think Haku will merit a much closer look
#536 is a return to a much more normal town Haku tone. Asking Xiz to engage him even if only for Xiz to get support from others
#545 "I beg you" ok nvm Haku can be town again
#735 to FG's jessie vote "oh cmon here, you're even the one that said she was busy with life stuff" *so pure*
#773 asking FG out of the blue if she's confident about leetic then following up with "a second opinion could be meaningful here" looks good


Xiz
Xiz coming, making light of the SK ish by claiming SK then dipping out is so Xiz it's frustrating, though I wish he'd have elaborated on his thoughts at the time
#518 is a fair intent, though I can't remember a time in the last 4 years where Xiz has been top poster
#519 yesssss someone drawing heat on duskfall
interaction with Haku puts Xiz in a good light
okay weird turnaround. @Xiz if you haven't answered this yet, why did Dusk go from lowest to 2nd highest town?
#565 is possibly the weirdest post in the game so far. it deserves being quoted in its entirety to draw back to the WTF " because reasons. I rather die and get mislynched here then tell you. I don't believe in you ffa, i believe in my top town to win." even after reading the claim the next post, this post still makes 0 sense.
#583 reads like truly genuine frustration at Haku, but I think that's an easy source to tap into, especially given the irrelevance of Haku to the situation. all Haku said in the last ~20 posts was "I don't believe the claim".
#591, 594, 599 okay. so you were frustrated 'cause you wanted to pull something bigbrained off and then got upset and blamed other ppl when it blew up in your face. now you want to act haughty and say its because you're dealing with lvl 1 players? this whole thing stinks and its hard to believe you're truly indignant about a mess of your own creation.
#712 "duskfall is off the table" why, again? or is it still too early to answer?
vote on psycho at #738 at EoD - 2h42m, too early to think she won't meet postcount so that's a fine inactive vote
#896 "funny is a really really bad lynch today" EoD-11m, still holding psycho vote, doesn't answer "why" from bolth
#931 rescinds/resends his 1shot vig claim at :00 after phase timer okayyy haha there's a lotta ways this can go, let's see #chaos play out
#959/964 re-claims 1shot, shot leetic but blocked or hit vest


Bolth
this bolth person seems genuine. yo @bolth you got much experience playing maf?
" It's worse when you grow up with Bolth as your last name and everyone spelling it wrong so now whenever I read the word 'both' I do a double take cause I think its my name. " but is it pronounced bolT, bolTH, boTH, or BOAT??????
#503 following an introspective conversation, "Problem with my solving last game was it was entirely gut reads. Maybe it's easier to stick with those kinds of reads when the phases are only 12 hours long, but my initial gut reads of scum in this game make less and less sense the more I think about them" considering this was in response to FFA telling him he was 2 for 2 in the previous game, I'm viewing the uncertainty as more likely to come from town here.
#883 been awhile. I think 503 was his last post aside from his re-entrance at 878, so he's missed a lot and even at 503 he was sorely lacking real reads. anyway, #883 calls out DBP as out of character for not pushing wagons at EoD. this is more AI of bolth to notice that than it is for DBP imo
follows this by a vote on FG after being asked by MML to stick a vote sooner than later (EoD - 13m)
BOLTH MY GUY #927 votes leetic with a "I think leetic is scummier than psycho" and notices "has psycho even made 5 posts?"


MML
MML causing this clusterfuck and being proud of it looks bad. pushing the inactive lynch is expected from MML. Hell, I agree with it. but pushing it to the point of letting it consume thread and then being proud of that is not good.
#579 yessss GO MML way to focus on the right shit. call Xiz on that BS "big brain" move
#602 first player to move on past Xiz and take the mechanically correct step of accepting the claim and moving on, despite how easy it might have been to push Xiz further and call the claim fake. Follows up with #611 which puts MML at a high town read for making what he knew was the correct move mechanically but then being unable to move on past Xiz' weirdness and so asked to explain the reversal on dusk.
MML defending Ulle when there's some pressure on her from FG and then FFA/Xiz looks good on him in retrospect. Beyond that, #709 goes farther in analyzing *why* FG is pushing Ulle and attributes it to defending leetic. really liking MML at this point


Jessie
#805 jessie has had very few posts til this point. her posts contributing a relevant thought can be counted on one hand. this interaction struck me as odd for some reason so I'm including it here, starting with #805 to FG "What changed your mind?" wrt to unvoting Ulle (then "you do you, I guess" as an aside in response to FG's vote switch onto her) -> FG responds, "she won't be around" -> jess, "I mean I guess that’s okay for D0, but if you genuinely think someone is a wolf later on in the game, I don’t think them not being here for EOD should save them." -> FG, "I agree"

Part 1 lol I did what I said I wouldn't do and actually got lost in the thread reading it instead of skimming it. Glad I did though. I got a lot of background to the EoD that I never would've had the context for otherwise.
oh, bear in mind that the notes are fully chronological for each name and so if I start with "x town" for instance, it doesn't mean I think that way at the end.

Sorry for the complete lack of formatting and editing. I thought I'd be able to catch up by now and have time to proofread, but as it is you get a completely unedited rough dump of my thoughts and I'ma go play some hollow knight and try to process that EoD / SoD and the possible worlds stemming from them before sleeping.

That reminds me of Roundbox's tower posts without the army of quotes.

I'm kind of curious here what was the intention in terms of solving.

It feels like pure commentary which is interesting, but also vaguely going anywhere.

[Makilaz]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Vote Count:
5/6 @ 19:00

00:59 = GOOD
00:00 = BAD


==============

DaBackpack [2]
Duskfall, Hakulyte

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'm trying to reconstruct Shado's game slowly and I need to reread parts to remember parts of what happened if it wasn't my main focus during the game.

He's town. He's my strongest read of the game.

Go back to D0 and read his interactions with ulle, even at times where ulle was under pressure. I think there's a lot to be said for being able to solve a slot thru intention, and all I see there and throughout the game do someone who's really just trying to solve it.

Obviously you can't be as confident as I am because you don't know for sure that I'm town and don't get to come in after the fact and look at the situations of my predecessor with the unbiased eye of someone who wasn't involved, but yea I'm pretty confident on this one

In a MML / DBP fight, it seems like ShadoWolfe is consistent with himself and support MML over DBP.

when did you ask me about Xiz? I'm reading, chill your beans fam

if you must know, I don't like either of the wagons right now. as far as I've read, I haven't seen anything from DBP meriting a lynch. Is his playstyle different in terms of posting more during the phase itself and less trying to control EoD? yes. Do I think it's AI? No. I like that change. I know DBP has historically been stressed thinking people *needed* him to come in at EoD and hero mode it to save town, so seeing him put it to the backburner is a welcome change. everything I've read of him so far has been aight.

Xiz I've commented on extensively in my posts thus far. I think can be resolved later as more claims come in, though after reading his more recent meltdown and recovery, I'm beginning to think his presence alone is gonna split town even if he may be town himself. I don't think there's much he can do at this state to convince certain people that he's truly town, so he'll be an easy mislynch later on if people let emotions make their decisions when claims come in and mechanical lynches becomes more crucial.

So between the two, I'd lynch Xiz over DBP if it comes to it.

I'd much rather we lynch duskfall. Say what you will about D0 reads, but I think that over and over and over again his posts dripped scumminess too many times for me to let it go. I think you can tell alignment from even one post if it betrays the underlaying intention enough, and I think his posts do that. my thoughts there are outlined in my bigger post about D0 as well.

I'm also really hesitant on accepting FG's green. A godfather almost certainly exists in this setup, and I'm normally really good at reading her. In all the games I've played with her, I don't think I've ever mislynched her as town and the one time she was wolf I caught her D0 and pushed for her lynch thru the following day phase. Aside from this phase where she's seemed more normal (perhaps due to the green check), she's really been off to me. My thoughts there are outlined in my big post from yesterday.

DBP would live over Xiz/Duskfall.

Xiz your latest fixation with FG stinks of another bigbrained plot and I can't deal with another. Please stop.

oh yeah jess exists. that's a fine lynch too, esp since it's become clear no one wants to follow me on Dusk

Reads FG town.
Reads Jess potential wolf.

...

--------
Excuse me for interrupting my own post but...

dbp

dbp

DBP

Nah, no wordplay, are these real?

dbp tentatively



nah bullshit reasoning

Holy shit Bolth. Mad play if wolf.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

No seriously, I have a really hard time to picture you vote wolf DBP here to invite town to L-1 your hypothetical wolf partner.

That might be a potential hindsight.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Apparently my post on DBP "requires moderator approval", so who knows if we'll see it. Anyway, I think the evidence that DBP is paired with Shado and jessie isn't as strong as the evidence that the latter two are paired with each other. There are some major red flags with the DBP/jessie pairing, though the fact that DBP has yet to show up means I can't make a judgement on whether DBP is setting up jessie for a lynch or if he plans to divert attention away from her. DBP does admittedly have many wolfy moments of his own though.

@leetic

Please revisit this world.

Also, unvote because clearly I'm lazy and need 24 hours to read 50 posts and comprehend them.