TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

**DaBackpack** · 09-10-2019, 02:52 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

the scumtell with the cop softing is what I was referring to, but specifically in the context of Zenith's claim

there have been at least two games where I nailed somebody dropping PR softs and not doing anything after someone claimed that role. HNH very clearly was softing cop. The fact that Zenith claimed cop and nobody else (HNH included) is bringing up the HNH cop softs indicates to me that some people (HNH included) were trying to sweep that under the rug. This is something I realized this phase. Indheart is the only person who so much as talked about his posts.

and HNH not being here reinforces that idea of "plausible deniability" when it comes to having to face reckoning for that.

You make references to meta, I don't know his. But barring some actual real-life shit the odds of him actually being the cop and not reporting at least your check are lower than him not wanting to attract attention to himself and/or giving his partners room to bus him to infinity.

I'm not Zenith but I'm pretty sure you're thinking three levels deeper than he has been this entire game. Not gonna speak for him but even if you're "pretty damn sure" HNH is softing, a less confident player would still perform the seer just to make absolutely sure. And if Zenith is actually using his brain he'd realize that "this level of certainty" matters even more in the context of MYLO.

**123kappa3** · 09-10-2019, 02:53 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

I really doubt svaz is cop, and because of that they are pretty much comfirmed wolf in my mind.

**DaBackpack** · 09-10-2019, 02:55 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Some of this is assuming that HNH is deliberately not interacting with the thread, but that's not even necessary, since his partners simply have to either cover for him or let him rot and gain town points by bussing him

**123kappa3** · 09-10-2019, 02:58 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Idk Im flipping from DBP more town then InD because I dont think you can vote zenith here no matter what. Unless a counterclaim is made.

**DaBackpack** · 09-10-2019, 03:02 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but the amount of tinfoil you need to assert that Zenith fakeclaimed cop, and then faked a red check on the real cop KNOWING that HNH was gonna be inactive AND ALSO knowing that he was the real cop (both circumstances being necessary to get away with a fakeclaim!) is... a lot of tinfoil compared to the Occam's Razor "Zenith is telling the truth"

You could make an argument that Zenith entered this phase ready to die and the thing with HNH was a raw coincidence but that's something you need to sell me on

**inDheart** · 09-10-2019, 03:03 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

svaz is not the cop

really i didn't interpret h&h's posts as softs until you mentioned breadcrumbing, because i'm pretty stupid and i haven't been looking for any. my charu read had nothing to do with him softing if he did, though i've wondered afterward whether it was my read that killed him anyway or something

the same rug sweeping happens if he's not a wolf and wolves don't need the softs highlighted, which is what has me worried. i buy that you've caught people dropping softs before, but site activity is really the only way i'd say he's dropped anything, it's not like he's gone on to claim miller

**DaBackpack** · 09-10-2019, 03:11 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

sure but at a certain point we're just talking in circles, or just engaging in WIFOM

none of this is actually verifiable, we're just guessing why certain things are happening the way they are

my inclination atm is to not get stuck in my own mind, and instead invoke Occam's Razor as a guiding heuristic.

**inDheart** · 09-10-2019, 03:12 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Originally posted by DaBackpack

It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but the amount of tinfoil you need to assert that Zenith fakeclaimed cop, and then faked a red check on the real cop KNOWING that HNH was gonna be inactive AND ALSO knowing that he was the real cop (both circumstances being necessary to get away with a fakeclaim!) is... a lot of tinfoil compared to the Occam's Razor "Zenith is telling the truth"

You could make an argument that Zenith entered this phase ready to die and the thing with HNH was a raw coincidence but that's something you need to sell me on

i'm already doing a little bit of legwork to get to the scenario where zenith is alive today imo - it requires particular wolf actions to have been done n1 for them to choose not to interfere with him at all last night

you'd need some kind of explanation for being alive and having a peek, which he himself only attempted with that UTR post, and i essentially did for him through the night action spec

a wolfteam with zenith on it is trying to find the cop last night anyway, because they need to not kill the cop to protect his claim, and they have a role cop shot to figure it out if they're really lost

fakeclaiming cop in the short term saves zenith from the lynch, fakeclaiming a red on the other cop sets up the perfect claim fight. i don't think it needs anything to do with h&h's presence/non-presence, but if we're really the only two people to see the softs, you understand why i'm wary of letting the day slip by with you kind of shruglynching h&h and us not bringing it to the thread

**_Zenith_** · 09-10-2019, 03:12 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Originally posted by inDheart

the crumbing makes choosing h&h as a peek target pretty poor. say you, reader, are the cop. we're entering lylo. you have multiple potential targets who have a very tractable amount of posts to read in search. you have admitted to appearing UTR to not draw attention:

(although you then make this tone-deaf post, which is kind of hilarious)
and i read that post as "i have been keeping up, just intentionally not posting", which would make me think you would do your homework on who to peek going into lylo

if you're the real cop, is the person softing cop across the table from you not immediately already suspicious? you may as well treat them as outed and look for a partner - not to mention you have the same n1 as h&h appears to be repping, on a now-dead player

and i'm not inclined to buy that the choice of who to peek is not very meaningful with the roleblocker about, because i've been mrrring at mechanics all day and i can imagine you wanting to run through the same kind of possibilities as i have here, realizing there's a risk if the wolves already used their ninja and so you can have an action get through, etc. plus that you've been given a button with no disadvantage to pushing it anyway, and again, it being lylo

i feel like this oughta be at least thought about before potential game end, you know?

I chose H&H for a few reasons, one of them was even before subbing into this game, I had a piqued interest in him because there was a point before subbing that his post progression was really transgressed, and I felt the same way about Star-Crossed until I saw more from the individual (right around EoD). I can't use meta to my advantage because I've only played I think two games with Hate and he was town both times, but some would argue I could use that to further gauge that he's a wolf in this game.

I wouldn't have taken the posts you highlighted as softing, to me, wasn't so likely. DBP is confident that they were actual softs, but if they were they were poorly made imo. Like you are taking what are seemingly scary irl situations as softs for this game; incredibly unlikely that they are meant to be softs.

I have been looking for partners, that's actually what I've been doing lately and my immediate view was towards Xel who flipped town. After that I don't really know where to go without looking back in the first phase for interactions with Psycho, Svaz, and DBP. It seems like nobody does however, and my claim didn't help with that because we're sitting ducks until inactive people start talking.

**inDheart** · 09-10-2019, 03:25 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

iunno why else you say "ambulance/cops" though, not like "responders" or something, felt forced. maybe it's a french thing

also think it's quite the task to think he has a progression, lol, his reads post appears from the ether and only a few people even gave it notice. something something PRs are wolfy

i definitely didn't have a good impression of me asking him questions and him comnig back just to go "i'll be back again, there are sure things i wanna talk about later though!"

**inDheart** · 09-10-2019, 03:27 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

don't get me wrong there is a large part of me that wants to spitelynch him anyway by now

but i feel obligated to entertain that it's not the right thing

**inDheart** · 09-10-2019, 04:05 PM

Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

every zenith post yesterday pre-shadow dying:

every post yesterday post-shadow dying: