TWG CXX: Villains United

[TWG Captain Hook]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

Be aware that you are doing the same by consistently bringing me up, though I actually have more of a reason to have had a vote on you. You are not off the hook, Hook. I should not have switched my vote.

I'm not tunneling on you anymore, I brought up more than just your name didn't I? Yes I was pushing back at you because you were attacking me for something stupid and wouldn't let up on it.

And don't forget to vote for Clayton, Maleficient, Muntz, and The Queen. They also had votes on you. Talk about tunneling...

There's a difference in having a vote on me and constantly pushing me over and over.

Oh dear, was this a joke post?

No, totally not a joke what so ever........

Also how is that post equal to saying I'm not a hero over and over. My post and your post are totally different things.

[Xiz]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

Shan Yu, a Villain has died in the night. Day 2 starts now, and will end July 17th @ 11:59pm server.


Gotta end a few min early.

[TWG Gaston]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

Aw. I found his bird to be quite good target practice.

[TWG Maleficent]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

Really lame lynch there. Shan Yu's offenses were just aggroing on Auto and letting Hans die 100% by just watching the thread at the end. Only thing it really says is that the heroes are afraid of picking someone who actually stands out. I really hope Auto isn't a hero now, because getting rid of one of his aggressors would be even stupider than any of his posts so far.

So yeah. There's my reasoning. Sorry for the mislynch. But if you guys start pinning all the blame on me for a lynch that nine people were involved in, I will not be happy.

Decent enough explanation. Although trying to "stir up activity" is kinda what anyone would do to avoid dying regardless of role.

[TWG Hades]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

I really thought we had something with Hans. Disappointing.

The last vote by Auto is probably one of two things: a Hero saving another Hero (Hook) from a lynch, or just a misguided/unlucky Villain breaking the tie.

I cannot imagine that a Hero Auto would save a Villain Hook from KITB. There is no potential upside from breaking the KITB. A Hero Auto would have known that breaking the tie would flip a green, and make him the center of attention for the next day phase.

If we lynch Auto today and he comes up Hero, Hook is almost certainly Hero
If we lynch Auto today and he comes up Villain, Hook could be either
If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Hero, Auto could be either
If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Villain, Auto is almost certainly Villain

I believe our lynches today should be between Hook and Auto, since they will give us the most information. Based on the above, if we lynch Hook, we either get a Hero or we clear Auto. If we lynch Auto we either double up, or we get nothing.

Because a Hook lynch is win-win, I vote for Hook. Either we get a Hero in hook, in which case we can re-evaluate an Auto lynch, or Hook comes up Villain and we can clear Auto.

[TWG Captain Hook]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

I really thought we had something with Hans. Disappointing.

The last vote by Auto is probably one of two things: a Hero saving another Hero (Hook) from a lynch, or just a misguided/unlucky Villain breaking the tie.

I cannot imagine that a Hero Auto would save a Villain Hook from KITB. There is no potential upside from breaking the KITB. A Hero Auto would have known that breaking the tie would flip a green, and make him the center of attention for the next day phase.

If we lynch Auto today and he comes up Hero, Hook is almost certainly Hero
If we lynch Auto today and he comes up Villain, Hook could be either
If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Hero, Auto could be either
If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Villain, Auto is almost certainly Villain

I believe our lynches today should be between Hook and Auto, since they will give us the most information. Based on the above, if we lynch Hook, we either get a Hero or we clear Auto. If we lynch Auto we either double up, or we get nothing.

Because a Hook lynch is win-win, I vote for Hook. Either we get a Hero in hook, in which case we can re-evaluate an Auto lynch, or Hook comes up Villain and we can clear Auto.

The day just began and you're already going to narrow it down to 2 people out of 18? There's been plenty of other people that have had some odd behaviors. I'd like to hear more on why me flipping villain means villain for auto.

[TWG Hades]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

I cannot imagine that a Hero Auto would save a Villain Hook from KITB. There is no potential upside from breaking the KITB. A Hero Auto would have known that breaking the tie would flip a green, and make him the center of attention for the next day phase.

We now know that Hans was a Villain. If you also flip as Villain, that means that the KITB yesterday was between two Villains. A Hero has nothing to gain by breaking a KITB between two Villains, and knows that doing so will only draw attention.

[TWG Syndrome]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Hero, Auto could be either
If we lynch Hook today and he comes up Villain, Auto is almost certainly Villain

No

1) How could Auto switching to Hans if Hook flips Hero possibly mean that Auto could be villain? That would mean it's an obvious attempt at a hero save. Auto would not be either in this case. He would be a hero.

2) Hook flipping villain does certainly not clear Auto. What are you thinking a hero would have to gain anyway? All they do is kill villains and they knew who the villains are. Auto could be hero and thinks Hans could be more of a threat. "Sure, let's kill Hans first, and then we can do Hook later since he's pretty much set to be a lynch target today."

In both quoted cases, Auto is more likely to be a hero, and you are pretty much clearing him no matter what the Hook flip would be. At this point in time, I'm fine with either Hades, Hook, or Auto.

[TWG Syndrome]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

First off, my biggest hero suspicion (Maleficent) went for Hook. So I'm already thinking villain on him.

If you thought Hook was a villain, why did you wait to switch until the last minute?

Secondly, Jafar tunneled Hook really hard all day, for, and I quote, "my own dastardly plans." If this is roleplay, it's really late roleplay, and if it's not, why the hell would he need "dastardly" plans if he was aligned with the villans?

So yeah, hero lean on Jafar, and he went almost solely on Hook.

A Hero would not tunnel on a villain, as it would be an extremely dangerous situation after the flip. Jafar would not be a hero in this case, and his vote for Hook was warranted.

And finally, the whole Hook thing rubbed me the wrong way from the start, considering the basis seemed to be that he didn't contribute to the first ten pages of nonsense and just snowballed from there.

Hindsight haha
If Hook rubbed you the wrong way from the start, why would you switch your vote from him? If this is a typo and you meant Hans, that wouldn't really make sense since I remember Hans posting somewhat early and regarding snowballing, that happened from both him and Hook.

Seems like some bullshit reasoning right here.

[TWG Syndrome]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

^

Decent enough explanation.

No

[TWG Jafar]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

The reality is Hans did a piss poor job defending himself and his play was very wolfy. Some people noted his continued votes throughout the phase indicated wolves on the train but they did so mid phase and there was more than a decent enough push elsewhere to nullify that argument for those who stayed on the train. I checked in, saw those things, and was satisfied with him dying. I had moments of reservation about it but I thought his death was the optimal choice.

I think if someone is pressing you ignoring part of their arguments, some of their questions, and generally acting disinterested in their reasoning on the basis that you are villa is bad play because they don't know that you are villa. It is not wolfy to defend yourself and to articulate why you are doing what you are doing and to attempt to answer all questions asked of you. People complain about white noise but to the one asking your anwsers are certainly not white noise. Had he given a shit enough to respond to me he probably would have survived as I would have moved to someone else.

I take full responsibility for this failed lynch but also put some onus on Hans for posting a lot but not trying to play. Obviously as we go forward analyzing the lynch is important (and I am not going to do that right now) but I just don't want a narrow minded shit-show off a day one lynch that made sense to me until the flip.

I hate hate hate hate hate this post.

This feels like V's wolf apology post from last game.

Blaming Hans for not defending himself - Hans did defend himself, and rather well for D1. He split his time between defense and he did his hero searching research and he added to general conversation. All of that was pro Villian.

Cruella, you take full responsibility for that lynch? Just you? what about the 8-9 other people on the wagon? they didn't have anything to do with it?

Like this post actually enraged me when it was posted.

[TWG Hades]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

No

1) How could Auto switching to Hans if Hook flips Hero possibly mean that Auto could be villain? That would mean it's an obvious attempt at a hero save. Auto would not be either in this case. He would be a hero.

A misguided Villain choosing poorly in a KITB situation could result in the same thing. You are only looking at correlation, not causation. Yes, if Hook flips Hero, we need to keep considering Auto (and it definitely makes him look more Heroic) but it is not as conclusive.

2) Hook flipping villain does certainly not clear Auto. What are you thinking a hero would have to gain anyway? All they do is kill villains and they knew who the villains are. Auto could be hero and thinks Hans could be more of a threat. "Sure, let's kill Hans first, and then we can do Hook later since he's pretty much set to be a lynch target today."

If Hook does flip Villain, why would a Hero get in the way of a KITB between two Villains. Any idiot can see that it brings a lot of day two attention at literally zero gain. Why would a Hero bother? Why would a Hero think that a Villain in a KITB situation would even be a threat? If Hook is a Villain, why wouldn't a Hero just let it go to KITB and then take up the "We can do ____ later" stance anyways?

IF Hook is also a Villain, the only thing that happens to a Hero that breaks the KITB is more attention. That is bad for Heroes, which is why a Villain Hook almost completely clears Auto. What Hero purposefully draws that kind of attention on Day Two?

In both quoted cases, Auto is more likely to be a hero, and you are pretty much clearing him no matter what the Hook flip would be. At this point in time, I'm fine with either Hades, Hook, or Auto.

No, if hook flips Hero, it is still likely that Auto could be a Hero, but Hook being a Hero does not automatically confirm it. Hook being a Villain would confirm Auto Villain in my mind.

Again, you need to look at the difference between correlation and causation.

[TWG Syndrome]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

IF Hook is also a Villain, the only thing that happens to a Hero that breaks the KITB is more attention. That is bad for Heroes, which is why a Villain Hook almost completely clears Auto.

No, because he didn't break the KITB by himself. Hans was practically telling Auto to vote for him, sort of like Charles Claythorne giving up and telling everybody to vote for him when he was actually the doctor. Hook was actually making some sort of posts (rather late though) while Hans still seemed otherwise. Hans was more suspicious near the end and paired with Hans telling Auto to switch...yeah.

No, if hook flips Hero, it is still likely that Auto could be a Hero, but Hook being a Hero does not automatically confirm it. Hook being a Villain would confirm Auto Villain in my mind.

Auto and Hook hero is more confirmed in that case than hook and auto villain. You can't honestly tell me otherwise.

Again, you need to look at the difference between correlation and causation.

This bullshit lmao

[TWG Hades]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

No, because he didn't break the KITB by himself. Hans was practically telling Auto to vote for him, sort of like Charles Claythorne giving up and telling everybody to vote for him when he was actually the doctor. Hook was actually making some sort of posts (rather late though) while Hans still seemed otherwise. Hans was more suspicious near the end and paired with Hans telling Auto to switch...yeah.

This would be a valid point if Auto hadn't come in at the last minute and said "I'd rather Hans goes." when the game was already at KITB. If Hook is Villain and Auto is Hero why doesn't Auto just sit back at this point, after having voted a page or two earlier and disappeared? Why reappear and post at the last minute when without him it is almost certainly going to KITB?

You are looking at actions and not mindsets. What Hero would interrupt a KITB between two Villains? The fact that Auto interrupted it first with a post that basically stated his intention of switching to Hans, and switched after Hans goaded him is immaterial. If Hook is Villain and Auto is Hero, why wouldn't Auto just let it go to KITB?

Auto and Hook hero is more confirmed in that case than hook and auto villain. You can't honestly tell me otherwise.

The only way you can make this argument is if you believe that it is impossible for a Villain to break a KITB mistakenly, or if you believe that it is a smart move for a Hero to break a KITB between two Villains.

This bullshit lmao

If you only had a brain. Well at least we know what kind of Syndrome your name refers to now.

[TWG Yzma]

Re: TWG CXX: Villains United

Not sure why you felt the need to apologize Cruella
Coupled with the fact that you pushed on Hans and then let the others take the wheel for the lynch... not sure what to think about that