George Zimmerman found innocent

[moches]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

okay, drive-by post:

I get mi40's point that systematic poverty isn't necessarily tied to systematic racism but rather a historically disenfranchised poor black population, but...we don't live in a post-racial society. the perception of blacks in America is still very much racist. look at stop-and-frisk statistics: blacks and other ethnic minorities are disproportionately targeted. compare judicial decisions on similar crimes for blacks vs whites: you generally see much harsher sentences and fines for blacks.

and really, that's the fundamental issue that frustrates me in my view. it's less about whether Zimmerman is guilty or innocent (and I honestly believe he wasn't guilty of murder; manslaughter, probably) but about whether the justice system gave both Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin equal treatment--whether this case was balanced based on evidence or on the defendant's race. can you imagine if this was about an African-American adult who followed an innocent white boy against police advice and shot him to death in self-defense? how would the reaction have differed?

and to those who continue to argue that race should be left out of this: fine, but let's keep in mind the controversy surrounding the term "racial profiling" in this trial. even the defense was aware of the racially-charged context of this incident to the point where the TERM "racial profiling" became a no-no.

ultimately, the reason this case is so inflammatory is because we have thousands of potential Trayvon Martins suffering from racial prejudice in America...and thousands of George Zimmermans who can count on getting away with the consequences when the results turn ugly.

DISCLAIMER: this post really isn't to attack anybody, rather just to clarify from my perspective why race should matter in the discussion of this case

[kommisar]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

[Reincarnate]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

My point is that we shouldn't pretend that race doesn't matter anymore. It does, and the evidence is pretty strong in proving it so.

We don't have laws anymore that explicitly bar blacks from things, but that doesn't suddenly imply it's any easier for them. In many contexts, a qualified black applicant has a much harder time getting employed than a qualified white one. The problem is a mix -- a combination of current-day racist/classist sentiments coupled with long-term historical disenfranchisement. As I mentioned earlier, the war on drugs is also a big one.

Anyways, just because this particular verdict was fair doesn't mean it's always fair. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I can't guarantee the outcome would have been the same. The law is cut-and-dry in some situations and very open to psychological gymnastics in others.



EDIT: To briefly expand on my earlier point about college stuff, to be clear: Does race matter in admissions? Ultimately, yes, it does -- but not in the way you expect. It's not like the "standards" are suddenly lower if you're black or higher if you're asian, etc. I can also tell you this from experience (as someone who attended a top school) that many students of color were just as intelligent/qualified as their peers. Getting into the details of how all this stuff works, though, would require a separate thread that I'm too lazy to make and too lazy to debate anyway.

[Zeldagurlfan1]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

"He offered his sympathies to Trayvon's parents for the loss of their son."

would be so awkward and very tense

lol agreeeeeeeed

[moches]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

My point is that we shouldn't pretend that race doesn't matter anymore. It does, and the evidence is pretty strong in proving it so.

We don't have laws anymore that explicitly bar blacks from things, but that doesn't suddenly imply it's any easier for them. In many contexts, a qualified black applicant has a much harder time getting employed than a qualified white one. The problem is a mix -- a combination of current-day racist/classist sentiments coupled with long-term historical disenfranchisement. As I mentioned earlier, the war on drugs is also a big one.

Anyways, just because this particular verdict was fair doesn't mean it's always fair. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I can't guarantee the outcome would have been the same. The law is cut-and-dry in some situations and very open to psychological gymnastics in others.

very well-said

[I like it]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

[JohnRedWolf87]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

Idiots exist, this is true.
Most of them are probably just Internet Tough Guys, anyways. :P

[rayword45]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

The sad thing is that address was proven to be wrong over a year ago.

[fishskin pete]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

bringing race into a case like this is a completely stupid idea since it seems very clear that trayvon attacked zimmerman in the first place

somebody started a fight first and got killed for it in a state where self-defense is well practiced

also saying shit like



is completely unfounded and stupid because black people get plenty of unfair advantages too because of white guilt
(ie. affirmative action where black people & other minority races are given unfair advantages in the admissions process for colleges)

i hate it when people say shit like "oh he was XXX'd because of being black"
no it's not because they were black, it's because you did something wrong or did something to deserve it

and for police brutality plenty of non-black people are manhandled too (just not as sensationalized as it is with police brutality on black people)

stop eating up all the media bullshit geeeeez

i was reading through the thread and stopped at this post. i just want to address some of the ignorance of this post.

You say quit buying the media bullshit, but thats exactly what youre doing, you werent there, you dont know shit about what happened, youre just assuming that what you heard is true. just because the media spins a story a certain way doesnt mean that they are trying to get you to react to the story in a specific manner. they know that for every person who agrees with something there will be another person who disagrees. if you are talking about the facts of the case as if you are some kind of judge(no matter what side you are on), then you are the one who is eating up the media bullshit
i really dont have an opinion on the case because i wasnt there at the trial and i wasnt there to see whatever happened so im not going to assume based on things ive heard from the media.


"black people get plenty of unfair advantages too because of white guilt
(ie. affirmative action where black people & other minority races are given unfair advantages in the admissions process for colleges)

i hate it when people say shit like "oh he was XXX'd because of being black"
no it's not because they were black, it's because you did something wrong or did something to deserve it

and for police brutality plenty of non-black people are manhandled too (just not as sensationalized as it is with police brutality on black people)"


you are clearly not in touch with the realities of institutional discrimination. you are the same person who bragged about going to a high level college as if it was some type of trump card that makes you better than everyone else, so your ignorance really isnt that surprising on this topic as you have most likely been pampered and sheltered from the reality of our justice system your whole life. the fact of the matter is that blacks are more likely to be targeted by police and more likely to be arrested. They are also more likely to go to prison. yes sometimes people claim that something happened because they were black and they can be wrong in that instance, but that doesnt mean that you can sweep all racism under the rug and claim that black people aren't discriminated against. Institutional racism isnt just "media bullshit", the media doesnt even address most of the issues that the black community deals with on a daily basis, the media is run by white people. for you to say "quit eating the media bullshit" after mentioning how you think institutional racism is bullshit just goes to show how ignorant you are of people who dont have the advantages that you do when it comes to their color and financial situation.


judging by your posts, youre an entitled piece of shit who deserves a mean dose of reality. you live in a fake world, you think youre better than other people when youre clearly not anybody who deserves respect.

[mi40]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

you didnt provide any concrete evidence for anything, i dont even know what you're arguing about

you're just making personal attacks (which arent even attacks because you're a 15 year old swaggeboy named jiz53, go back to middle school)

response to:
"the fact of the matter is that blacks are more likely to be targeted by police and more likely to be arrested. They are also more likely to go to prison."

this tells me you're the racist one
the fact that you connect the dots of black people more likely to go to prison or more likely to commit crimes tells me you associate the color with the crimes that occur
people like you are the reason why shit never solved, you can't go fucking change the color of these people, you have to change the way law works with people below the poverty line, like providing them good education so that they don't grow up thinking being a gangster is an acceptable way of leading a good life (i mean if you deal drugs and you make good money good for you but most people will end up being puppets for higher ups, ultimately going to jail or losing their lives)

what you don't see is that poverty creates crime and make people more likely to go to jail

poor hispanics, asians, white people go to jail too, not just black people

so i don't get why you're telling me institutionalized racism is the reason why more black people are in jail than let's say, hispanic or asian ones

stop being such a white-guilt ridden closet racist fuck


e: "the media doesnt even address most of the issues that the black community deals with on a daily basis"

you mean issues that are prevalent in hispanic, asian, and white communities that are poor too right

like teenagers falling into the drug trade, gangs, and crimes because they've been poor from the start and are brought up thinking there is no other way to make quick cash

you linking the fundamental problems that lead to crime & gang activity to just black communities is so fucking funny lol

[ddr_f4n]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

judging by your posts, youre an entitled piece of shit who deserves a mean dose of reality. you live in a fake world, you think youre better than other people when youre clearly not anybody who deserves respect.

See when people say stuff like this it takes away any possibility of taking their post seriously.

[fishskin pete]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

you didnt provide any concrete evidence for anything, i dont even know what you're arguing about

you're just making personal attacks (which arent even attacks because you're a 15 year old swaggeboy named jiz53, go back to middle school)

response to:
"the fact of the matter is that blacks are more likely to be targeted by police and more likely to be arrested. They are also more likely to go to prison."

this tells me you're the racist one
the fact that you connect the dots of black people more likely to go to prison or more likely to commit crimes tells me you associate the color with the crimes that occur

what you don't see is that poverty creates crime and make people more likely to go to jail

poor hispanics, asians, white people go to jail too, not just black people

so i don't get why you're telling me institutionalized racism is the reason why more black people are in jail than let's say, hispanic or asian ones

stop being such a white-guilt ridden closet racist fuck

what im saying pretty much is that youre an arrogant piece of shit with an undeserved sense of entitlement. im not gonna respond to any of the bullsht you just made in response to my post.

i never said that black people are more likely to commit crimes. i said they are more likely to get targeted by police, arrested, and convicted. i know plenty about what creates crime. the people who create crime are the people who define what constitutes a crime. our laws are enforced to protect people with money.

[top]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

i wonder who fishskin pete is and why he's gotta hide behind an alt...

just wondering k bye

[James May]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

He's attractive. No need to take him seriously, move along now guys.

[fishskin pete]

Re: George Zimmerman found innocent

He's attractive. No need to take him seriously, move along now guys.

I'm being serious here.