The Future of Stepmania

[stargroup100]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

so basically I agree with arch on almost all points except for charts not needing to be technically accurate

there's really no dispute to the fact that a technically cohesive chart is generally more well-received and enjoyed by the public than one that is not, this has been proven again and again, and therefore there needs to be some sort of standard when it comes to controlling chart quality

if we want to be taken seriously, we have to be serious about our game. this is different from being snobby or pretentious, I understand that. but you still need to set these standards

of course, this is talking about the "main game". anyone can make an fps map but it doesn't mean it is a viable stage competitively. similarly, anyone can make a chart, and people are encouraged to share, as this is basically how a community even grows. but the main game needs quality control

[dAnceguy117]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

I'm seeing two different topics being discussed here.

1) conceptual groundwork for a commercially viable, StepMania-like game
2) ways in which we can grow the existing communities

There should be separate threads for these topics.

[Crazyjayde]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

Just want to add quickly that even though standardization and centralization are two major aspects that are definitely a problem in the loss of exposure/accessibility of SM related games, there's a bunch of other aspects that are problematic.

One issue I struggled from the beginning is the complexity of notions of gameplay and mainly how they are integrated in the game. As an example, the wide variety of speed mods leaves the newcomer confused, having barely any reference to start with. While it is important to keep a balance between casual and experienced gameplay, I think we need to make a priority of what is truly essential to the game. The nature of rhythm games is to be simple and to the point since it relies mostly on your motor skills, which most DDR/SM influenced games do not often achieve. I'm not suggesting a removal of those features, but mainly a more precise definition and delimitation of the content presented.

Basically, SM is a big clusterfuck and it's hard to play without having studied the game beforehand. And even though there exists games with fundamentals that are complex to comprehend, at least they offer an organized center of information which we can refer to.

Most other communities operate on the main site, why don't we?

Occupy Stepmania 2013

[kommisar]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

I'm seeing two different topics being discussed here.

1) conceptual groundwork for a commercially viable, StepMania-like game
2) ways in which we can grow the existing communities

There should be separate threads for these topics.

I think they sort of go hand in hand. If we want to grow a community we have to make the game more appealing

[Izzy]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

Putting my bias aside, I believe stepmania online is an important aspect for attracting new people. Every popular game today has an online system.

[Arkuski]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

Putting my bias aside, I believe stepmania online is an important aspect for attracting new people. Every popular game today has an online system.

Osu!'s online ranking system I think would do wonders. FFR has a really good system too that encourages replay. If there were some standard ranked files that we could all agree upon... we could include the legendary files like Eggman's Quasar and the best of the plethora of files we have now.

[Izzy]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

Osu!'s online ranking system I think would do wonders. FFR has a really good system too that encourages replay. If there were some standard ranked files that we could all agree upon... we could include the legendary files like Eggman's Quasar and the best of the plethora of files we have now.

It's in development. There are a few threads about developing such a system on smo forums.

[swordmasterz]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

FFR's online system is okay, but really archaic imo. Doesn't help that multiplayer still sucks dicks after all these years. Could really use improvement.

I predict that osu! will be the central PC rhythm gaming hub in due time huEHUhEuhUE

---

I don't have much to add except to reemphasize everything the other guys are saying.

I think the forefront of our goals is to find a central authority though. It will be much easier to work from there after that.

[kommisar]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

what stepmania needs is a gui like osu. built-in community access and easy access to downloading new songs

[Hakulyte]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

what stepmania needs is a gui like osu. built-in community access and easy access to downloading new songs

Better have Xoon join forces with smo.net and get somewhere together for a gui..

As for the the songs.. that's a good start.

http://www.stepmaniaonline.net/index.php?page=downloads

If every or almost every sub-Stepmania/Keyboard communities joined with the idea of making something together that would fit the description of OP, things could get interesting.

[qqwref]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

I like some of the ideas (new official site the community can get behind, official high-quality USB keypad) and dislike others (more keys = better).

I think what's really important here is the amount of work this would take. If people have the motivation to do it that's FUCCEN AWESOME but I'd have to see it to believe it. I am already working on a project to categorize all the released packs; if we do actually do a big SM community revival, I'm sure that info will come in handy. Imagine an actual WR database where people could submit their best scores with proof, or an SMO-like server where you would select a pack+chart and the server could actually send an FTP download link to anyone who doesn't have that particular file.


Just one more idea before I go. The exact judge timings need to be official, very clear, and enforced by the game. Suppose we use the old SM3.9 j4 as our base standard. We will call that timing scheme "Accuracy 0". Then we could do something like a log scale where every 10 points halves the timing window. "Accuracy +10" would be the old j7 and "Accuracy -10" would be the old j1. (Of course you could use any integers, so you could play on Accuracy +7 or something if you can't quite handle +10.) Instead of the timing windows being hidden in an .ini file, the meanings of these numbers would be fixed and hardcoded into the game, and the accuracy would be displayed clearly on the score screen.

I don't think we need to bother with the same kind of effort for life difficulty, though - FailOff and one standard life difficulty will work. Nobody cares about passes on higher life difficulty (focus on getting a good score if passing the song is so easy) or lower life difficulty (the song is too hard for you, don't worry about passing it).

[Izzy]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

Just one more idea before I go. The exact judge timings need to be official, very clear, and enforced by the game. Suppose we use the old SM3.9 j4 as our base standard. We will call that timing scheme "Accuracy 0". Then we could do something like a log scale where every 10 points halves the timing window. "Accuracy +10" would be the old j7 and "Accuracy -10" would be the old j1. (Of course you could use any integers, so you could play on Accuracy +7 or something if you can't quite handle +10.) Instead of the timing windows being hidden in an .ini file, the meanings of these numbers would be fixed and hardcoded into the game, and the accuracy would be displayed clearly on the score screen.

SMO already has a server side timing window that translates your score to J4 regardless of your client settings.

[Arch0wl]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

A lot of really great ideas being thrown around here. I just want to say two things:

1. I can't stress enough the importance of startup capital. A complete reworking of Stepmania is probably not possible on a volunteer basis. The only way this would be a viable project is if you had someone funding your ability to work full-time. With a game like Stepmania, it would not be enough to just release it under some game studio. You'd need a Riot Games-like staff environment dedicated to promoting the game and organizing tournaments. Otherwise, it would be a massive uphill climb.

2. Also, for the sake of mentioning this: Stepmania would have to drop the happy/bouncy/kawaii/club stuff. Even DJ MAX, which is supposed to be one of the darker, more serious themes, looks too much like what Jennifer Lopez would commission for a web UI. This is the poster for some Pump It Up game and it looks like the advertisement for perfume sold to little girls or perfume sold to slightly older girls. The SM community's cross demographics are people who would otherwise be playing DotA, which is one of the largest video game sausagefests to ever exist.

If any of you are crazy enough to go through with it, DO NOT make Stepmania's dominant aesthetic something with glowing purple/pink or rounded shapes unless you're going for some weird Portal-style thing. The kind of person who would play SM is now the kind of person who uploads videos of themselves playing Black Ops II with Skrillex or Celldweller in the background. You need to acknowledge that your community will be testosterone central and work with that.

Basically what I'm saying is this: unless your game can exist alongside this Droid DNA commercial, this live show or everything about this video, the aesthetic is probably off in some way.

So something like SOMS or perhaps a darker version of Optical would be ideal for that demographic.

[NeoMasterPie]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

there could also be downloadable (unlockable?) themes and noteskins

[Arch0wl]

Re: The Future of Stepmania

there could also be downloadable (unlockable?) themes and noteskins

Be careful with that.

I recognize the motivation -- to make everyone happy -- but a game is, like any other product, a brand. Any extra theme you add on will be a theme people make videos of themselves playing, which is an indirect advertisement for your game. But if it's a silly theme, then your game looks silly, even if that's not the "main" theme. Viewers won't know otherwise.

To put it another way: that's like making custom business cards with different looks depending on the customer you meet. Which is probably harmful unless you're so ubiquitous that you can get away with it, because you're aiming for brand consistency.