Does your gender or sex define you?

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Yes and no. If you said "from a surgical standpoint" this would be accurate, as bottom surgery for FtMs is pretty abysmal at the moment. However, it's easier to masculinize a body than it is to feminize it. FtM's don't tend to need facial reconstruction surgery, even when they transition late. Voice will tend to deepen as a result of testosterone whereas MtF's get no benefit past a certain age. So basically, HRT does A LOT more for FtM's regardless of age than it does for MtF's, who either transition early or don't pass; at least not without as much as a hundred thousand dollars worth of surgery. The only major drawback for FtMs is bottom surgery.

At the same time WtMs have to go not only through bottom surgery but also top surgery. And from what I have heard, the plastic surgeons don't really put that much effort into removing a woman's breast for aesthetic reasons...at least not as much cares as they take with women with breast cancer.

And a voice can be trained to be higher. It is much more acceptable for a woman to have a deep voice than a man to have a high pitched voice, at least in my opinion.

[Reach]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Gender is a social construct. The way we dress, walk, and talk has a lot to do with how society has taught us to behave. Wearing a dress has nothing to do with being female. So, no, if our brain "changed' when our sex changed it would not make the transition any easier unless you erased all of the memories that person had growing up.

And anyone on this forum that says no does not understand how much your life would change if you woke and were the opposite sex.

This phrase 'social construct' is thrown around nonsensically a lot. Specifically, your sex is not a social construct and has nothing to do with society. Gender can mean a lot of things, and in many contexts gender is not social in origin. I think you're referring specifically to gender roles, which is entirely another basket of issues.

Regardless, just because the way we dress etc is shaped in part by society doesn't mean it doesn't have a foundation in the fundamental biology of sex.

If you don't mind, explain to me how changing your chemistry to that of the opposite sex would not ease the transition from one sex to the other. Just because it wouldn't make the transition simple doesn't mean it wouldn't facilitate the transition. I don't see how this could possibly not be the case, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Of course the transition is going to be hard. My point was that, if it is to work at all, the only way would include a fundamental change in biological chemistry in conjunction with any other changes that are made. Otherwise, the transition is doomed to failure.

[duddychuck@yahoo.com]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

If I was a chick Id masturbate all day.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

If we lived in the jungle, didn't have language, logic, and had no sense of what a man was or what a woman was, yes then the transition would be simple. If my male dog woke up as a female dog tomorrow, he probably would not even realize what happened. However, as human beings we put everything into categories and we find it very difficult if not impossible to break the "rules" that we apply to those categories.

Just to add to this since I don't seem to be making myself clear. How many men would honestly know what to do if they go their period tomorrow? Would you know how to insert a tampon? If you woke up as a heterosexual woman would you even know how to go about flirting with a man? If I woke up as a man I wouldn't even know how to bathe properly with the new equipment. I wouldn't know how to walk like a man or even talk like a man. Even if my brain chemistry changed, this would not facilitate any of these things because it is what we learn as we are growing up.

Also, the nonsensical "gender is a social construct" is nonsensically used as a definition in most universities around the country. Sex and gender are two completely different things.

[Reach]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

If we lived in the jungle, didn't have language, logic, and had no sense of what a man was or what a woman was, yes then the transition would be simple. If my male dog woke up as a female dog tomorrow, he probably would not even realize what happened. However, as human beings we put everything into categories and we find it very difficult if not impossible to break the "rules" that we apply to those categories.

Also, the nonsensical "gender is a social construct" is nonsensically used as a definition in most universities around the country. Sex and gender are two completely different things.

If we lived in a jungle without language we would still develop our own personal sense of what a man and a woman is. The transition would still not be easy by any means.

Also, I seriously question the fact that your dog would not notice. He most certainly would know. The fact that your dog would not respond the same way as a human has to do with differences in intelligence between humans and dogs.


I've been attending university for a long time, and I've never heard the sentence 'gender is a social construct' used, ever, without further explanation, since the term is semantically ambiguous and can mean any number of things.

Even then, we have to be careful. When most people use the term social contruct, what they really claim is that gender is not an inevitable result of biology, but contingent on social factors, which is a fancy way of saying what I already said; biological factors still matter.

Just to add to this since I don't seem to be making myself clear. How many men would honestly know what to do if they go their period tomorrow? Would you know how to insert a tampon? If I woke up as a man I wouldn't even know how to bathe properly with the new equipment. I wouldn't know how to walk like a man or even talk like a man. Even if my brain chemistry changed, this would not facilitate any of these things because it is what we learn as we are growing up.

Despite your awkward examples (I've seen a tampon being put in, I think I would probably figure it out...), I see what you're saying.

You're arguing something completely different to my point. I'm not going to argue against the fact that I would not possess much of the knowledge necessary to act as a woman would within the social constraints of society.

That wasn't the type of transition I was referring to. I was referring to psychological transition and the ability to cope with your new challenges.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

My dog would notice that he no longer had his penis, yes. But he would be about as upset about it as when he got neutered. He didn't understand it, but they were gone, and that was it.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I feel like it's a huge mistake to treat "society" as somehow separate from the underlying biology. What do you think composes a society?

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Well I am assuming that we are talking about Western society. If you look at the Middle East, how does covering a woman's face have anything to do with biology? And yet that is their social construct around women. I wouldn't know how to conduct myself as a woman in the ME any more than you men would.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

If I woke up as a woman, it would depend on whether or not my brain was also shifted to that of a woman's. Obviously having a female mind with a female body would be easier to handle than a male mind in a female body.

And yeah, there would be a lot of "book-knowledge" and experience I'd be without regarding stuff like menstruation and whatnot, but that sort of thing is merely transitional learning. The psychological implications would be much more profound IMO.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

But if you woke up with a "female" mind then you wouldn't be you and doesn't that make this entire thread pointless?

You guys are arguing against all of the social implications (which IMO would be the most difficult to adjust to) and saying that "well, my brain would change too", so that really kind of ends the discussion right there.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

But if you woke up with a "female" mind then you wouldn't be you and doesn't that make this entire thread pointless?

You guys are arguing against all of the social implications (which IMO would be the most difficult to adjust to) and saying that "well, my brain would change too", so that really kind of ends the discussion right there.

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to hammer home, here.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'm just trying to understand why people on this forum are trying to undermine how complicated gender is. Our socialization begins at birth. You can't just figure it out after being thrust into another gender.

[HoneyMelonCalibrator]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question. I can only assume a majority of them didn't fully understand the question. The only two ways I could see someone being content with an unanticipated sex change would be if either:

- the person was suffering from gender identity issues prior to this hypothetical scenario

or if:

- the person's brain chemistry changed with their respective sex.. and even in which case, would take a while to adjust to

I'm curious as to what other reasons would cause so many people to be so sure that they could cope in a situation like this..

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question.

This. Thank you.

[Kage06]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'd say I'm a straight male, even though I know 100% straight doesn't really exist in my opinion, so feel somewhat weird when people say "are you straight?". Its like yes, but no? Even though I've never had feelings for another guy.
I feel I somewhat have female thinking, but I'm happy being myself (Male)

Of course I'd have a problem if I woke up with female parts, as I've gotten used to being the way I am, and have grown to knowing the ways of myself, being a guy.
I don't think "oh I wish I was a girl"

The thing is, I don't feel comfortable flirting as a guy. It's never something I've really done.
I'd much prefer if girls came up to me than the other way around, as girls are so used to happening. They pretty much choose who they want based on who walks up to them...

That may seem odd, but I just don't like the concept that the guy has to go to the female, and the thought of asking a girl out is automatically telling the girl you are interested in her sexually, and want to end up having sex with her.

I've neither felt comfortable talking about who I would "bang", etc with other guys for this reason even though as a guy, its how I "should be".

It's not really the way I am, even though I do, at least in part have this male suggestion in my system that thats the way I would like to be. I do of course have a sexual system, and I do get feelings of attraction for girls, but its the thought of them thinking something about you, that I do not like somehow, even though I do think the way guys do most of the time.

It's odd. It's like I have 2 heads. What I do, because I'm shy or whatever, and what I would have liked to have done which tends to want to overpower what I do.

I feel that if I listened to the other part, I would of had a relationship by now. Something which at the age of 23, I've never had.

Its definietly the fact I've lived as a guy for so long though, that I wouldn't want to wake up as a female.
I'm as I am, and I've gotten used to the way I am, so to answer the question finally.

Yes, I would have identity issues.