World of Warcraft

[ImEric12]

Re: World of Warcraft

YESSSS.

Spent about an hour working on Mimiron... we kept consistently getting to p4, our only problem was the rocket strikes would happen DIRECTLY under Mimiron and kill our tank where he couldn't see them. After this happening several times, we managed to hold it off long enough that once it did, we powered through the end and just BARELY downed him (healer dps ftw)

I spent last night looking up and learning the Vezax and Yogg fights just in case, figuring I wouldn't need to look up Yogg, but what the hell. So we headed out to Vezax. The hallway leading to him is by far the coolest part of the instance.

First attempt was a sloppy learning attempt of "here's all the things I just said in vent put in order"

Second attempt we got him down to 4.3%, at which point something glitched and one of his moves became non-interruptable. This caused us to plan for that to happen, so on the fourth attempt or so, we saved heroism for 10%, and downed him easily. That fight is made out to be way harder than it is. (We were somewhat melee heavy, so that could have helped immensely)

We had about an hour to screw around on p1 of Yogg, which didn't work so well. Avoiding the damn clouds is non trivial. We got Sara down to 50% a few times, but then we'd end up chain spawning Guardians by accident. We should be able to get past p1 next week, and then p2 will be a whole different story D=

Overall an awesome week though, I'm so excited. (Oh, we also got Disarmed on Kologarn, which is our first step toward the meta acheivement)

[Squeek]

Re: World of Warcraft

We were supposed to run Uld25 seriously for the first time tonight, but the raid was such a failure that it ended up being just a Flame Leviathan kill in the end.

We lost to XT at 13,000 hp left. It was a horrible sight to behold.

There were just too many stupid people killing other people with their bombs, and the DPS was seriously lacking. Even with the Bloodlust on heart-phase trick, they couldn't get him down to 50% to chain the heart phases.

After that raid disbanded, we took a break and then popped back into our ten-man run to try Mimiron again. We got to phase 4 for the first time but too many people were down to continue for long. We're pretty sure we can do it Monday night.

Glad to hear Vezax is easy. I keep hearing that Mimiron is the hardest boss and that Vezax just requires smart people rather than serious planning and skill.

[Grandiagod]

Re: World of Warcraft

I don't know how it's possible to kill people with bombs.

DBM shoots up a giant ****ing message in the middle of your screen and a screech sounds off.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

I like how part of being a "serious" raider is running a program that takes all of the observation, timing and skill out of managing boss mechanics.

[Grandiagod]

I like how part of being a "serious" raider is running a program that takes all of the observation, timing and skill out of managing boss mechanics.

Hey Devonin, how's that progression going for you?

Really good right? I bet you're killing so many bosses.

Tons.

I bet you're progressing so nicely.

aka stop it with the masturbatory I DUN LIEK ELITIST JERKS AND DBM I'M A PURIST bull****.

noc unless you have a better way and have actually killed something worthwhile

I take it back, I looked at your achievements.

You've totally cleared The Arachnid Quarter

My bad dawg, maexx is hardcore. It's not like you can pug naxx in 3 hours or anything. One wing down is pretty crazy dawg. Was it a server first? I see your raiding philosophy has taken you far.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

Edit: Three cheers for poorly explaining myself.

My whole issue is "Players who brag about how incredibly skilled they are because of their raiding accomplishments amuse me because they almost universally are using multiple outside addons to make the accomplishment as easy and straightforward as possible"

I have no issue with using mods like DBM, Omen, Grid, Clique, Healbot whatever. They DO make the fights a lot easier, and since generally what you're looking for is a) Credit for killing the boss and b) Gear from the boss, anything that makes getting those things easier is a Good Thing(tm)

My issue is that using all of these things -does- make the fight easier, and so I'm -amused- (That's all, amused) when I see arrogant pricks bragging about how amazing they are because they've killed something you haven't, when part of the progression process is engaging as many outside aids as possible to make it as easy as possible to do.

[Grandiagod]

Re: World of Warcraft

I agree with that.

[ImEric12]

Re: World of Warcraft

Yeah, but you're open to use all of those things as well. The game was designed to be added on to-- this is demonstrated by how horribly designed the default raid frames are. Blizzard has even stated this. So yes, all those addons make it easier, but you're on perfectly level ground and still haven't cleared bosses they have.

Anyway, Vezax definitely requires planning and thinking ahead.. you can't just get in and burn him down and blow all your mana right away. Saving caster dps for black puddles helps immensely, and planning saronite vapor use is also very helpful so you don't have wasted puddles. But still, it's CAKE after managing to keep everyone alive well into P4 of Mimiron.


Also, speaking of irritating wipes, I pugged naxx yesterday just for fun (got the 25 malygos key and barely missed the roll on Torch of Holy Fire aghhh) and our first KT attempt got him down, no joke, to 2400 health. =(

[Tokzic]

Re: World of Warcraft

http://www.dauntlessones.com/index.php?topic=3691.0

Video of us downing XT-10 Hard.

Note the charts at the end.

I rock.

[Gano]

Re: World of Warcraft

So my guilds on Mimi 25 now, had fun being phase 3 tank since we have no good locks, phase 4 is just a mess right now though.

Just yesterday half pugged a 25 Naxx and brought along one of the officers for my servers best raiding guild on Alliance, who was apparently watching me. After 4 wings down he offered me a spot in his guild asking if I was tired of topping meters every fight in my ****ty guild. So now I'm faced with a decision of going there where I'm less needed but will probably get geared out much quicker, or sticking with my current guild where I've worked my way to officer and have been progressing with for some 9 months. HMMMMM.

[Squeek]

Re: World of Warcraft

Edit: Three cheers for poorly explaining myself.

My whole issue is "Players who brag about how incredibly skilled they are because of their raiding accomplishments amuse me because they almost universally are using multiple outside addons to make the accomplishment as easy and straightforward as possible"

I have no issue with using mods like DBM, Omen, Grid, Clique, Healbot whatever. They DO make the fights a lot easier, and since generally what you're looking for is a) Credit for killing the boss and b) Gear from the boss, anything that makes getting those things easier is a Good Thing(tm)

My issue is that using all of these things -does- make the fight easier, and so I'm -amused- (That's all, amused) when I see arrogant pricks bragging about how amazing they are because they've killed something you haven't, when part of the progression process is engaging as many outside aids as possible to make it as easy as possible to do.

I know you're not targeting me, but at the same time, it's not like DBM is really making it easier. It's just making it more convenient.

I could just use Power Auras to custom-generate images or text just like DBM's whose sole purpose is to flash the buffs/debuffs at me in a clearer way than Blizz's "hey we're just gonna stick this thing over here and hope you notice". Once I realized that, I did. I spent several hours customizing every encounter I knew to just basically show me things I was supposed to see already if Blizzard had spent more than thirty seconds generating a decent UI. On a fight like Hodir, my NPC buffs aren't mixed in with 30 other buffs. They're clearly shown directly over my character's head, separate from the rest of my unimportant buffs (yay +550 ap!). When you have a buff that doesn't work immediately (sunbeam) or a buff that has a maximum capacity that they don't mention to you (toasty fire) or one you'll never ever know that you actually have (power spark) then it's helpful to have a heads-up warning that you've got those buffs rather than spend the entire fight looking at your buffs (Which are constantly changing due to raid-wide procs and such).

I do agree that the game is POSSIBLE without any mods, as I know several people who do not use mods, but the game is made much more CONVENIENT with these addons. The fact that blizzard has never once mentioned a problem with deadly boss mods indicates that they do not think it is cheating. It is simply a program like power auras that is programmed to track when an event occurs and show a warning to the player--just like blizzard's actual raid warnings (except much more accurate).

As for the failures, their problem wasn't really that they didn't know they had the bomb. The problem was that they didn't know how to run away with it. It's much easier in Uld10 because you have a lot more room to work with and there are fewer bombs. With 25 people around him in a half circle, it can sometimes be hard to get away, I guess. Though it really isn't, since I had no problems running away ever.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you can't make a bad player good just by giving them DBM.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

I never said you'd make a bad player good by giving them DBM.

And you don't think that a global announcement 10 seconds before every mechanic fires doesn't make it easier? A global announcement and automatic raid marking when players get targetting with mechanical effects? Convenient -and- easier. But again, the effects of DBM on the play weren't the focus of my point.

My point was the people who are arrogantly bragging all the time about their skill despite the fact that they use as many tools as they can to make things as easy and straightforward as possible, I find amusing. That's all.

[Tokzic]

Re: World of Warcraft

I never said you'd make a bad player good by giving them DBM.

And you don't think that a global announcement 10 seconds before every mechanic fires doesn't make it easier? A global announcement and automatic raid marking when players get targetting with mechanical effects? Convenient -and- easier. But again, the effects of DBM on the play weren't the focus of my point.

My point was the people who are arrogantly bragging all the time about their skill despite the fact that they use as many tools as they can to make things as easy and straightforward as possible, I find amusing. That's all.

I don't think it really removes any grandeur about doing something difficult when you use mods. It is the exact same game, it is the exact same achievement. No game mechanics are changed.

Do you find it amusing when people use flasks when they raid? I mean, it's making the fight easier. You can do it without them. Why not do it with the difficulty intended, right?

[tsugomaru]

Re: World of Warcraft

I've been raiding without Deadly Boss Mods for the longest time. A month ago, I finally picked it up and it doesn't really help me much because I already pay attention to these things. I suppose the only thing DBM is good for are for people who don't know the fight. We were running with a guy who has never been to Naxx before, but he listened to what we told him, he paid attention to what was going around him, and he took note of the DBM warnings and he played as if he had been there many times before.

~Tsugomaru

[tsugomaru]

Re: World of Warcraft

But to make sure I'm doing this right, using vent is cheating. People shouldn't feel proud that if they clear content while they use it. It makes communication with raid members way too easy.

~Tsugomaru