Economy Fix or Fail??

[korny]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Were I on another computer and not my Wii where I have to click on letters I'd add a lot more. What I am going to point out is that I find it ironic that you say you don't want to be around cigarettes just because of the smell and not the second hand smoke when it causes cancer and weed does not.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Words

Yes whatever, I get your masterful art of weaving logic and legalese.

It comes down to simple pragmatism why the drug should be made legal, and there is a pretty simple to draw economic trade-off.

Your choice, and this is a dichotomy, is between:

1. Drug lords and smugglers making egregiously high profits on the basis of illegality whilst police are sinking costs into combating their own, otherwise for the most part law abiding, populace. These profits going to groups that stranglehold the security structure of developing nations, the most vivid examples being Mexico, Columbia.

2. A greater number of people who drive high, greater availability to minors, increased danger on the roadways, increased alcohol poisoning deaths.

There is no cohesive empirical evidence to suggest marijuana is a gateway drug that I have ever seen.

Your call, sarge.

[A2P]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

This is going to be off topic, but it's worthwhile to note:

I want to be a facilitator in this forum, keeping the threads active and keeping the brains working. Not the "winner" of "fights"

I would also like to add that you can have an opinion all you want, but what makes one valuable is reason. Any opinion can and will be attacked by criticism. It is up to your reason to give your opinion value.

And without criticism, there would be no reason for logic and knowledge. People would be allowed to say whatever they want, and without an opposing view, it would be accepted no matter how silly or ignorant the notation might be.

[devonin]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Yes whatever, I get your masterful art of weaving logic and legalese.

Your call, sarge.

Clearly you didn't get it.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Clearly you didn't get it.

I got it, but it's better to think of legalization as trade-offs than it is to think of it in a system of legality and morality. At least I'm far too pragmatic to look at it any other way. Maybe it's because I'm a practical nihilist who can only gauge things on their results, it doesn't really matter.

Clearly we aren't doing very much in stopping either marijuana supply or demand, clearly we are turning a large contingent of the American people into criminals without really them putting anyone else in danger through the act of smoking weed, and clearly there is a negative ramification of its illegality: it creates enough of a profit margin for it to support organized criminal enterprise. There is nothing inherent in the marijuana that creates this profit margin. The illegality is the dominant factor. And the illegality of it is also what feeds into its own illegality: the fact that buying it supports criminal enterprise.

I'm sorry if I'm blind to your arguments, but it's because the whole issue seems very simple and I can't seem to get past the idea of what is the trade-offs for legalization. Call it myopic. Call it unlearned. Call it illogical.

[devonin]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Instead I call it "directed at which words exactly?"

[Vendetta21]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Instead I call it "directed at which words exactly?"

The ones I skimmed.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Up until my first reply I thought this was TGB. I wouldn't have come into this if I thought it was CT because then I would have actually felt compelled to care, and the effort is beyond me. Sorry Big D. You made formidable points, I guess I mostly caught your stuff about law breaking in the skim, and that still doesn't settle with me because I don't know if I agree with your view of the legal system in its entirety.

Changing laws has many forms, and one of them being that when a law is not something the populace follows and that law is not protecting other individuals, it is often changed on that basis in a supreme or national appellate court or through legislation. Sometimes law breaking is the way a law can be changed, given special criterion.

I'm not arguing the current state of legality of the drug, I'm saying very few people respect the law in this case, and the law isn't effectively stopping anyone who wants to smoke pot. I'm 20 and it is easier for me to get marijuana than it is alcohol. Now this isn't the rule, but it is a microcosm of the greater culture among people in my age range (16-20.) In legal systems they have something called practice versus policy, which often can dictate outcomes in cases about policy: when the practice does not follow or conform to the policy it can grant gravity for someone arguing against the policy. This has more to do with contract law than criminal law, but I think it's a good analogy for how I feel about legality in this case. Not all cases though, just this one.

I understand the legal distinctions here: the police aren't necessarily ignoring the policy, therefore the practice does not supersede the policy. But police are increasingly turning an eye to the lower levels of marijuana crime. And this is worth noting.

Lastly worth noting is that one philosophy of the legal system is about the intention of laws rather than the laws themselves, and that when a law does not produce its intended effect it needs to be changed to do so. Legislators often change traffic laws in their jurisdiction because either the traffic system has changed or the law was not working as intended. What is the intended effect of the marijuana law?

[devonin]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Well my issue is that by skimming only, you basically completely missed the whole thing about how I'm personally actually FOR the decriminalization of marijuana for personal use. I just happen to -also- feel that if legalized, there should also be some standards and limits put on its use in the same way that alcohol has standards and limits on its use.

[kommisar[os]]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

legalizing would obviously relieve a lot of financial stress what with the incredible amounts they spend to try and prevent the use; however, this alone is far from sufficient to fix the entire economy.

i also agree that it would need the same amount of restrictions as alcohol, but this would also bring out the people against it and those who would prefer not to get baked off second hand smoke.

[korny]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

You can't get high off of second hand smoke. I mean technically you could, but the amount needed would be very expensive and it would have to be in a small contained area. I understand what you're saying though about everything else.

[chuckman]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

hahah everyone devonin is a built debater...he'll never be right, at the some token, he also will never be wrong...he'll just stand behind his idea until everyone gives up....thats how he is...in my opinion lmao!

[x After Dawn x]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

You can't get high off of second hand smoke. I mean technically you could, but the amount needed would be very expensive and it would have to be in a small contained area. I understand what you're saying though about everything else.

Actually, you can get slightly high off second-hand smoke fairly easily. Try walking downtown at night in Vancouver.

[korny]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

Interesting. I smoked an eighth ounce of blunts in my old minivan and a girl who was with us wasn't smoking and didn't get high from the session and blunts allow way more THC to escape than do pipes.

[lord_carbo]

Re: Economy Fix or Fail??

hahah everyone devonin is a built debater...he'll never be right, at the some token, he also will never be wrong...he'll just stand behind his idea until everyone gives up....thats how he is...in my opinion lmao!

That's called stubbornness; that's not really what devonin is doing. He's pointing out the logical holes he sees in other people's arguments, regardless of whether or not he agrees with the general proposition being put forward.