Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Telvanni_guard]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

The only difference here is that it is potentially possible to read the actions of your opponent to better allow you to guess their next move, or in extreme cases, motivate them into a certain action yourself.

Random can't be defined as a person. When it's a person using the controls the word isn't random actions, it's thought out actions. In other words skill. You don't know what's going to happen, but it's not like it happens out of the blue. There's a thought that triggered in that person's mind to do it. Be it spontaneous or not.... At least that's what I've been told.

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Random can't be defined as a person. When it's a person using the controls the word isn't random actions, it's thought out actions. In other words skill. You don't know what's going to happen, but it's not like it happens out of the blue. There's a thought that triggered in that person's mind to do it. Be it spontaneous or not.... At least that's what I've been told.

My point was that even the most skilled players still have the unknown facing them when they play an opponent, be it CPU or live player. Nothing is truly random anyway, and while it is more likely that a person may be able to read the actions of their opponent (especially on poorly programmed "AI"), it cannot be predicted absolutely, and as such can be any number of undetermined outcomes coming forth. Yes, you can guess whether your opponent will dash, retreat, jump, etc., but in the same regard, you could just guess if an explosive is going to spawn in front of you while you're using your forward smash.

This is all in relation to the idea that "randomness" is only introduced by items. I say that it's simply heavily magnified, and the unknown factor is always present, just normally not in any particularly unfair way. In fact, in the same regard, not all items make for an unfairly tipped balance of a fight. There are a handful of items that when used can only truly tip the balance in favor of the player who is skilled at item use.

[flash dualist]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Im good at kirby.

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

My point was that even the most skilled players still have the unknown facing them when they play an opponent, be it CPU or live player. Nothing is truly random anyway, and while it is more likely that a person may be able to read the actions of their opponent (especially on poorly programmed "AI"), it cannot be predicted absolutely, and as such can be any number of undetermined outcomes coming forth. Yes, you can guess whether your opponent will dash, retreat, jump, etc., but in the same regard, you could just guess if an explosive is going to spawn in front of you while you're using your forward smash.

This is all in relation to the idea that "randomness" is only introduced by items. I say that it's simply heavily magnified, and the unknown factor is always present, just normally not in any particularly unfair way. In fact, in the same regard, not all items make for an unfairly tipped balance of a fight. There are a handful of items that when used can only truly tip the balance in favor of the player who is skilled at item use.

One aspect of professional players that makes them professional is their ability to read their opponents. While they won't always be able to read what is going to happen (and even if they can read what is going to happen, there are some situations that are not possible to get out of), a high percent of the time, they will. Another is their ability to overcome their character's weakness to another character (though always difficult, it's always possible).

That aside....I agree with you Afro. Items don't add randomness, they just increase the likelihood that something completely unexpected is going to happen.






So.....who here likes Bigglypuff? I sure do.

[Tonberry_Kid]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I started playing more as Metaknight, Pit and Wolf...

Gotta say, I'm getting pretty damn retarded with Metaknight.

[Shoe The Almighty]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I'm best with Wolf, then Ike....then either Sonic or Wario....I want to play online but for some reason it keeps disconnecting when I try to set up a match.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

i really think that playing without items is just makes the game more boring and generic, i mean the new items introduced in brawl depend on skill to use and they make twists in the gameplay, for example : the gooey bomb, the smash ball and the dragoon.

everytime these items appear people run for them and even if they are close to you that doesn't mean you're going to get it (specially the dragoon and the smash ball) wich changes the battle into a "who can get it first" and is actually fun to have those twists, is even more fun when you see everyone running away from your final smash/stucked bomb/dragoon target

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Boring to you maybe. Playing with items to me is boring.

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

the gooey bomb

Can blow up unexpectedly, just like bobombs or other explosive items.

the smash ball and the dragoon.

Can both KO at 0%. Not very fair if a smash ball (or final dragoon piece) appears, your opponent KOs you, they get the ball/dragoon, then immediately KO you again at 0%.

Some items aren't particularly unfair, but none of the ones added in Brawl fall under the title of "most fair" either.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Can blow up unexpectedly, just like bobombs or other explosive items.

Can both KO at 0%. Not very fair if a smash ball (or final dragoon piece) appears, your opponent KOs you, they get the ball/dragoon, then immediately KO you again at 0%.

Some items aren't particularly unfair, but none of the ones added in Brawl fall under the title of "most fair" either.

gooey bomb = it flashes before it explodes and also if you hit it of course it explodes >_>
smash ball = the smash ball constantly moves and some final smashes are easy to evade or to knock out
dragoon= it can be evaded... is not that hard and actually you can just knock the parts out of the person that has the parts... with "skill"

@korny is ok, we had this argument a LONG time ago, you can play the way you want but to me i can't see how playing with items is boring

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

gooey bomb = it flashes before it explodes and also if you hit it of course it explodes >_>

"if you hit it... it explodes"

Obviously what I was referring to. What if you're charging a smash and a gooey bomb drops in front of you. Oops you just got exploded.

smash ball = the smash ball constantly moves and some final smashes are easy to evade or to knock out

Did you even read my example? If I get KO'd by my opponent, then they get the smash ball while I'm coming back to life, then instantly KO me again at 0%, you think that's fair?

dragoon= it can be evaded... is not that hard and actually you can just knock the parts out of the person that has the parts... with "skill"

Did you even read my example? If I get KO'd by my opponent, then they get the final piece of the Dragoon while I'm coming back to life, then instantly KO me again at 0%, you think that's fair?

Yes, Smash balls and Dragoon pieces can be combated in many instances by simply applying skill, but there are always chances of stupid bullcrap like losing 2 stocks when you really only deserved to lose 1.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

"if you hit it... it explodes"

Obviously what I was referring to. What if you're charging a smash and a gooey bomb drops in front of you. Oops you just got exploded.


Did you even read my example? If I get KO'd by my opponent, then they get the smash ball while I'm coming back to life, then instantly KO me again at 0%, you think that's fair?


Did you even read my example? If I get KO'd by my opponent, then they get the final piece of the Dragoon while I'm coming back to life, then instantly KO me again at 0%, you think that's fair?

Yes, Smash balls and Dragoon pieces can be combated in many instances by simply applying skill, but there are always chances of stupid bullcrap like losing 2 stocks when you really only deserved to lose 1.

1. the chances of that happening are extremely low
2. it's fair.. if you had the skills to not get hit the first time then you wouldn't die the second one.. it's actually a strategy from your oponent
2. when you die you drop the pieces when you come back up, even donkey kong can go down fast enough to grab them again.

besides while you're invincible in the respawn you cna try and knock the final smash out of the enemy... what happens to you in these cases is fair because you were not able to avoid this situation, and seriously i never EVER lost a double stock like that... so it's your case only

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

1. the chances of that happening are extremely low

Funny, because if I sit down for a session of play, it happens to me at least once, if not multiple times. In a close competitive match, something as stupid as this can be the determining factor of who wins or loses.

2. it's fair.. if you had the skills to not get hit the first time then you wouldn't die the second one.. it's actually a strategy from your oponent

Are you dense?

If the ball appears while you're scuffling, and the scuffle ends with you being KO'd, HOW IN THE **** do you stand a chance? And don't even say "hey jump down and knock it out of them before they use it lol", because any player with a brain in their head is GOING TO STAY THE **** AWAY FROM AN INVINCIBLE OPPONENT.

2. when you die you drop the pieces when you come back up, even donkey kong can go down fast enough to grab them again.

What if you didn't have any pieces of it yourself. What if your opponent had already managed to get the first two pieces and the third came up while you were dead?

That's fair right? Basically, might as well say "hey he killed me once, that's as good as killing me twice".

besides while you're invincible in the respawn you cna try and knock the final smash out of the enemy... what happens to you in these cases is fair because you were not able to avoid this situation, and seriously i never EVER lost a double stock like that... so it's your case only

It doesn't matter what you say. "I never EVER lost a double stock like that." I don't give two ****s about that, because there have been plenty of times I have lost a stock at 0% due to my opponent having gotten a final smash (more often than not for me, they SPAWN WITH IT), and I know that it doesn't matter if I'm at a low percent because I just respawned or if it's because I've been avoiding damage well for the past minute or so.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

1. JUST STAY AWAY FROM THE FREAKING BOMBS??? IS THAT HARD TO DO?
2. well it's within the rules from the games.. and it is fair that if you couldn't get it you lose...
3. just evade it is actually easy (specially with ike)

and even if they killed you twice, maybe you should have the skills (or use the items) to make your oponent lose 2 stocks... there's always a way (unless you suck), besides is just a friendly match losing 1 is not going to kill you. what i hear from you are excuses and whinning.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Why don't you two just settle this with a brawl?

It's a battle game, crazy **** happens. I played a guy yesterday and had 3 explosive boxes fall on me. Lame.

then the next game I three - zero stocked him.