Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Oh sorry I forgot you all can beat three level 9s in a 3 on 1 team match every single time you play

100000/100000 wins right guys

I sincerely hope Brawl removes all your ******ry you bring into this thread. Names of stupid exploits that make no sense to anyone except you, intangible differences between clones, etc. It's just annoying.

Can't you play a game just to play a game?

Beating three level 9s in a 3v1 team means nothing to those of us that support tournament style play. For the record, it's not at all difficult if you know how to manipulate the AI.

I sincerely hope that Brawl removes all of your ******ry that you bring into this thread. You overlook minor things that make characters completely different. The exploits argument got nowhere last time, and it'll get nowhere this time; we've all stated our opinions, but neither side has budged. Let it go.

I can play a game just to play a game. I enjoy playing smash. Even though I play tournament style, I've gone through about half of all the characters for mains. Playing different characters is fun for me. Recognizing the differences among characters and figuring out their strengths and weaknesses in each match-up is fun for me.

We've been trying to give you valuable information about the game in general. We may be annoying to you, but what we speak is the truth. You're just being ignorant.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

You're the ones who continuously say I'm terrible at a game that I know I'm fantastic at.

I don't need to know the millisecond differential between LAZOR BEEMZ to be good at a game.

And by the way, Fox's laser is better. FOR ME.

It's a completely subjective experience. I laugh at the fact that you all classify everything in the game. Tiers. Techniques. Everything. It's pathetic.

[RoastedNoob]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Would you not want to understand everything about something you love? May sound kinda weird, but smash is, by far, the best game to be released imo. I just love every single aspect of the game. If I find something in the game that can make me a stronger player, you better believe I'll analyze it and master it. It's just an amazing feeling to see how far you can take yourself with a game... And like you said, maybe you don't care to take it that far. You just want to smash, throw, and kill. That's just as fun. I did it for three years, I just think taking it to the next level would make you realize what you've missed out on. Perhaps you'll change your mind when Brawl is released and you'll get into a more competitive feel for smash.

EDIT: You probably live in an area that's awful for a competitive smasher. I never would've realized what I was missing out on if my friends and I hadn't thought about how good someone could be at this game and downloaded a video. Then I drove five hours away for a tournament, next thing I know I'm flying to California for the best week of my life(wasn't the best week of my life because of the smashing btw).

[slickskater29]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

You lose to computers. You are not fantastic.

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Squeek, please don't take what I'm about to say offensively. I only wish to point out some things that I've noticed; I don't mean any disrespect. Oh, and what I'm about to say also applies to a lot of others, but Squeek is the most "visible" example of what I'm saying.

Judging by your posts in here, you appear to be very arrogant and self-centered ("a game I know I'm fantastic at"), and unwilling to accept new ideas. Of course, you're not the only one...a lot of people seem to be the same way, but you stand out the most.

It's like you want everyone to conform to your standards because, by your standards, you're the best in the world at the game. It's the classic "holier-than-thou" attitude.

A lot of people in this thread need to step back, look at the big picture, and stop being so vehement and adamant about their positions; be able to accept and adapt new ideas. Don't be so stubborn and rigid.

Like I said, I don't mean any disrespect by that, but things are getting a bit too vehement when we're not even supposed to be discussing Melee anyway

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

You're the ones who continuously say I'm terrible at a game that I know I'm fantastic at.

I don't need to know the millisecond differential between LAZOR BEEMZ to be good at a game.

And by the way, Fox's laser is better. FOR ME.

It's a completely subjective experience. I laugh at the fact that you all classify everything in the game. Tiers. Techniques. Everything. It's pathetic.

pathetic is the fact that you claim to be fantastic and you still don't understand the difference between clones. techniques and everything... sure i like fox more than falco, and roy over marth, and mario over Dr. mario but the thing is there are reasons for why i don't play with their clones and i think even an amateur that had just unblocked every character should know the difference.

though i cannot say i'm better than you or better than anyone here and NO ONE here should say that they can beat the other (unless any of you is world champion) because we still have not played with the other, that's i think the main reason for why brawl is so popular. sure squeek may lose to computers but who knows maybe he can beat you, sometimes smash is more chaotic than you think...specially if you play with items.

[RoastedNoob]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

So, who wants to take on my Dedede on release day?!?!?! >=D

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Squeek, please don't take what I'm about to say offensively. I only wish to point out some things that I've noticed; I don't mean any disrespect. Oh, and what I'm about to say also applies to a lot of others, but Squeek is the most "visible" example of what I'm saying.

Judging by your posts in here, you appear to be very arrogant and self-centered ("a game I know I'm fantastic at"), and unwilling to accept new ideas. Of course, you're not the only one...a lot of people seem to be the same way, but you stand out the most.

It's like you want everyone to conform to your standards because, by your standards, you're the best in the world at the game. It's the classic "holier-than-thou" attitude.

A lot of people in this thread need to step back, look at the big picture, and stop being so vehement and adamant about their positions; be able to accept and adapt new ideas. Don't be so stubborn and rigid.

I hope I wasn't one of the targets to this, but at the same time, I feel that I am.

There's a difference between arrogance and confidence. It's perfectly fine to go into each match with some sense of confidence that you can win if you play your A game; however, going into a match bragging that you can win it is not. I feel like I've just been using my confidence, but if anyone feels otherwise, please do correct me.

Accepting new ideas...I think we all need to learn to do this (if even for just this thread). We've got two different groups of people coming together in one thread, and each group thinks that their way is better, neither willing to accept that the other way can be fun (I'll admit it, I play around with items from time to time, just to get a good laugh in).

(Joke time) Holier-than-thou? What about being up on our high horse? Seems to suit this better.

Anyway, there's my input on that...


Edit : @Roasted - I'll take you on with my Pit >=D

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Would you not want to understand everything about something you love? May sound kinda weird, but smash is, by far, the best game to be released imo. I just love every single aspect of the game. If I find something in the game that can make me a stronger player, you better believe I'll analyze it and master it. It's just an amazing feeling to see how far you can take yourself with a game.

I did. I understood everything. Then I beat it. Then I stopped playing. That was the end of the game for me. I beat this game so long ago, your little tournaments didn't even exist. That's probably why I have no interest in going back to it.

Put it this way. I love replaying my RPGs. I don't know why, but I have a draw to getting max-level characters with max stats and the best items in the game. Even though average characters can beat any challenge, I enjoy getting everything. I rarely actually get that far since it takes a few hundred hours of work. For example, in Tales of the Abyss, I wanted a party that I could take to beat the hardest boss in the game on the hardest difficulty. So I started leveling one character at a time with the best level-up boost and kept everyone else dead so they didn't level. It was tedious. It was pointless. I went back and took a normal party to the boss and won, easily. Waste of my time. I put the game down and started another one. Tales of the Abyss is easily one of my favorite games of all time, but it's over. Maybe in 5 or 10 years when I've forgotten every line of the story by heart, I'll play it again. But I have so little reason to do so.

I did every side-quest (incredibly tedious), I beat every boss on every difficulty, I got the strongest weapons, and my characters hit the max level. The game ended. I have absolutely no reason to put the disc back into my PS2 unless my friends want to play some day (which they don't because they hate RPGs).

With Melee, I did the Break the Targets, Home Run Contest, etc. with every character. I beat Classic, Adventure, and All-Star with every character. I got all the trophies, I unlocked everything, and I even shot almost every name in the credits screen. THE GAME ENDED.

Look, I understand that some people bought Gamecubes just to play Melee. I wasn't one of them. Melee wasn't my first game and it wasn't even remotely my last. It wasn't the game I played the most and it wasn't my favorite game. I have forty two Gamecube games and I completed every single one of them with 100% completions on about half of them. You know what games interested me much, much more than Melee? Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, RE4, Super Monkey Ball, TimeSplitters 2, Super Mario Sunshine, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Ikaruga, Tales of Symphonia, Animal Crossing, Wind Waker, and F-Zero GX. I wouldn't say they're all better games (though some are) but some of them are in a completely separate league from Melee. Heck, ever since I got my Wii I've only put three Gamecube discs in it: Metroid Prime (to replay it before MP3), Resident Evil 4 (to finish it), and Ikaruga (because it's just one of the greatest games ever made).

Maybe you're the kind of person who just had a small handful of Gamecube games. I'm not like that. I tend to have dozens of games for my consoles. My game collection is bigger than most people's movie collections. And I've beaten every single one of them.

Heck, I don't even buy that many games. I'd have twenty more Gamecube games if I had the money. My Wii collection would be at 15 if I had bought some games I wanted (which are cheaper now and I'll probably pick up over the holidays). I've already ordered 7 more Wii games to add to my library of 10 and the system hasn't even been out a year.

Judging by your posts in here, you appear to be very arrogant and self-centered ("a game I know I'm fantastic at"), and unwilling to accept new ideas. Of course, you're not the only one...a lot of people seem to be the same way, but you stand out the most.

It's like you want everyone to conform to your standards because, by your standards, you're the best in the world at the game. It's the classic "holier-than-thou" attitude.

I know I'm not the best at the game. I understand that other people play by stupid rules. My point is that you all are not even remotely close to the majority of people who play Smash Brothers games. Even if you try to set the standards for tournament play, the majority of people absolutely don't care. They play this party game to have fun with friends, not to have pissing contests over who has the best one on one close-up fighting in a party game.

The reason I get so frustrated with you tourneygoers is that every single one of you who has posted in this thread has this notion that you can only be good at the game if you go to tournaments and beat other people. I don't understand it. You're holding a tournament in one country with just a handful of people focusing on just a single aspect of a game. How in the world can you justify who's good and who isn't based on that limited demographic?!

Look, let's say there's a Mario Kart tournament. The track they choose is... a straight line. And they disable items somehow. And they remove character selections so everyone plays the same character. Pretty stupid, right? The person who wins is the one who gets the best start or knows how to exploit the drifting engine. This is how I see Smash tournaments. You're basing skill level on who is best at a menial portion of a massive game, then calling anyone who is good at every other aspect of the game a "terrible" player.

For another example, let's say some guy on Youtube has videos of the world records for Home Run Contest. They're way better than everyone else's records. He's the best... at Home Run Contest. Would you say he's the best Smash Bros. player? Probably not. So why you justify skill level for Final Destination, no items, Fox / Marth / Peach / etc. is beyond me.

I'm acting arrogant because you're forcing my hand on this matter. I'm obviously not horrible at this game if I can get all 290 trophies. Diskun was hard enough with the no-damage clear.

All I want is for you to admit that a person can be good at a game without ever needing to prove it, whether it be a video, attending a tournament, having a representative visit your house and watch you play, or whatever other crazy idea you can come up with.

pathetic is the fact that you claim to be fantastic and you still don't understand the difference between clones.

Uh, I very clearly understand the difference between clones or I would've posted "fox and falco are exactly the same in every way". I'm saying that Sakurai, the guy making the game, doesn't want two characters with similar skill sets. What is "B" for fox? It's his laser. What is "B" for falco? It's his laser. What is "down+B" for fox? Reflector. What is "down+B" for falco? Reflector. I wonder what their ->+B and ^+B moves are!

It's pretty obvious to me that if the guy making this game says he wants to get rid of the clones, then you're not going to see clones. Therefore, either Falco is removed from the game as we already see Fox making a return, or he will be drastically altered. It makes more sense (to me at least) to replace him with another popular StarFox series character. One who varies from the main character. I think a staff-wielding psychic girl is a bit different from a gun-shooting space captain, don't you?

And for Pete's sake everyone. I don't lose to the 3v1 level 9s every single time. I don't know how you got that idea. All I said was that I don't win every freakin' match. Sheesh. I'd love to see someone who always wins at every match. Then I'd love to make sure he's playing on random stages with random characters and random items. Because after all, is it really an achievement if all you do is play Fox on Final Destination with no items over and over and over again? It's just proving that you can do the same thing over and over again. It doesn't prove that you're good at the game.

[RoastedNoob]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Perhaps I'm wrong to say this, I'm kinda sleepy... but tournament play is the "new idea" here. Squeek's is the old idea. Smash has evolved. No offense to you, Squeek. That's just how I see it as pretty much everyone started out playing that way, but then moved on to the "new ideas" of l-canceling and wavedashing.

EDIT: You listed alot of my favorite games from Gamecube. lol I played Monkey Ball for hours. After I beat that I did the same thing as I did with Melee pretty much. Started seeing how many courses I could finish under 10 seconds. Err, anyway, while I was reading your paragraph about the RPG games, I thought of how going to smash tournaments can be represented in an RPG form, and I sort of see it that way myself. Getting the highest level = Training yourself to master the controls of the character(s) you plan on using in the tournament. Getting the best items/weapons = Advanced techniques/Mindgames. Taking down the hardest bosses on the hardest difficulty = Getting first at a tournament/Beating Mew2King/PC Chris/Ken/etc.. It's a fun way for me to look at it, anyway.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Well, if you don't want to read it, I mention in there something that you just posted.

I finished playing this game before tournaments for Melee existed. That's probably why I care so little about it. I don't get hung up on games. I move on. It's incredibly rare that I return to a game after I beat it for anything other than friendly multiplayer.

I sincerely hope y'all don't turn Brawl online into tournament settings. Seriously. It's a fun party game. I don't want to see Brawl online turn into Mario Kart DS where you will lose if you don't Snake around the track. The first step in this direction has already been removed from the game as you can no longer wavedash.

[RoastedNoob]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I did want to read it, and have done so now. Just didn't want you to think my post was in response to yours at that point. Also, that's what I did for three years after I beat Melee. The only time I put it on was for 4-for-alls with items and chaos. Then I just found that RPG feel that I mentioned, and that turned it into a different, new game that I could enjoy for even longer.

EDIT: I made an edit to my edit of not reading your post yet as a response to your post fyi. lol

[redraver]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

the gayness is that they pushed it back to Feb.
X_X

[RoastedNoob]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Yeah, it sucks... but whatever needs to be done to secure the quality and goodness of this game, I'm all for.

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I did. I understood everything. Then I beat it. Then I stopped playing. That was the end of the game for me. I beat this game so long ago, your little tournaments didn't even exist. That's probably why I have no interest in going back to it.

Considering Smash 64 tournaments existed back before Melee's release, I -highly- doubt you beat Melee before a Melee tournament existed.

I know I'm not the best at the game. I understand that other people play by stupid rules. My point is that you all are not even remotely close to the majority of people who play Smash Brothers games. Even if you try to set the standards for tournament play, the majority of people absolutely don't care. They play this party game to have fun with friends, not to have pissing contests over who has the best one on one close-up fighting in a party game.

You appear to fail to understand that tourneygoers -don't mind- that other people play Smash like a party game; after all, it does that extremely well (seeing as how that was the initial intent, after all). Tourneygoers aren't a group of radicals trying to say that "Everyone has to play this way, all the time."

And once again, you're being stubborn and arrogant ("play by stupid rules"), once again claiming that your standards are the best.

The reason I get so frustrated with you tourneygoers is that every single one of you who has posted in this thread has this notion that you can only be good at the game if you go to tournaments and beat other people. I don't understand it. You're holding a tournament in one country with just a handful of people focusing on just a single aspect of a game. How in the world can you justify who's good and who isn't based on that limited demographic?!

Look, let's say there's a Mario Kart tournament. The track they choose is... a straight line. And they disable items somehow. And they remove character selections so everyone plays the same character. Pretty stupid, right? The person who wins is the one who gets the best start or knows how to exploit the drifting engine. This is how I see Smash tournaments. You're basing skill level on who is best at a menial portion of a massive game, then calling anyone who is good at every other aspect of the game a "terrible" player.

For another example, let's say some guy on Youtube has videos of the world records for Home Run Contest. They're way better than everyone else's records. He's the best... at Home Run Contest. Would you say he's the best Smash Bros. player? Probably not. So why you justify skill level for Final Destination, no items, Fox / Marth / Peach / etc. is beyond me.

I'm acting arrogant because you're forcing my hand on this matter. I'm obviously not horrible at this game if I can get all 290 trophies. Diskun was hard enough with the no-damage clear.

All I want is for you to admit that a person can be good at a game without ever needing to prove it, whether it be a video, attending a tournament, having a representative visit your house and watch you play, or whatever other crazy idea you can come up with.

You misunderstand me. I'm not a tourneygoer by any means; I'm simply a casual player who has some knowledge of the thought processes of tournament players. As such, I believe I can empathize well with both sides, which is why I'm trying to get -both sides- to stop seething at each other.

Then I'd love to make sure he's playing on random stages with random characters and random items. Because after all, is it really an achievement if all you do is play Fox on Final Destination with no items over and over and over again? It's just proving that you can do the same thing over and over again. It doesn't prove that you're good at the game.

Here you go again, claiming that your standards are the best. You don't even seem to be trying to accept any sort of new ideas.

EDIT: Feel free to stop this debate/argument/whatever whenever you want; I'm only continuing because I feel it necessary to do my best to mediate it. If you'd rather just stop it now and say something like "The next person who discusses tournaments vs casual play will be banned," then that's fine with me. I really don't think this is the best thread for this anyway, but since it's where it started, it can't exactly be moved.

Oh, and:

(Joke time) Holier-than-thou? What about being up on our high horse? Seems to suit this better.

That certainly seems to fit, but I take "holier-than-thou" to mean something along the lines of "I think I'm better than you, often for a ridiculous or irrelevant reason," which is why I used it.