Premaritial Sex

[tobi14]

Re: Premaritial Sex

i probably do not know alot about this subject, but if you ask me, marriage is just a scam to make alot of money. Even though people get married for love (sometimes) i see no reason for it so i have no problem with premarital sex

[devonin]

Re: Premaritial Sex

How is marriage a scam to make money? Couples filing joint income taxes generally pay less to the government, and there is a minimal charge to file marriage lisences with the state.

[tobi14]

Re: Premaritial Sex

if they pay less in tax money, they would probably save money, essentially having more money. not nesscarily proving my point, as i intended to point out that other companies (caterers and the like) would make money, but i also pointed out im rather ignorant on the subject.

[devonin]

Re: Premaritial Sex

I hardly think that the cost of a -wedding reception- constitutes the entire institution of marriage being a scam. If you are ignorant of a subject, CT is not the place to post about that subject.

[tobi14]

Re: Premaritial Sex

in a critical thinking forum, i knew debate would be typical, but apparently ideas about it being a chance learning experience have been proven wrong

[devonin]

Re: Premaritial Sex

You don't learn by just jumping in and saying whatever occurs to you to say...you learn by watching, reading, and seeing how things work.

[tobi14]

Re: Premaritial Sex

to proceed furthur with this, i think a 1 on 1 discussion would b nessecary (but who wants that?)... this has gotten
rather off topic and doesnt apply to anything ive seen here...i regret posting at all and will probably regret posting this

[zajac]

Re: Premaritial Sex

I say as long as there is love. It is ok to have premarital sex if you are a religious freak.

Marriage is government issued and a fine line between how a couple is 'together'.

Gay couples cannot get married (kind of... depends where you are...), so they cannot 'have sex'?

...Although pre-marital sex is mostly a religious topic, and gay marriage is out of the subject.

But yeah. Refer to line one for my opinion.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Premaritial Sex

Hey, it's Zajac. Sup dude.

ps. I'm a mod, I can do whatever I want and this so happens to be important business.

pps. CT Version:

I think this has already been said, but sex is a personal choice shaped by cultural and personal experience. Different cultures view sex in a different way. Attitudes change. American went through a sexual revolution in the 1960s, setting the bar for generations to come. The sex orgies of the 70s and 80s were fueled on cocaine and by the time the 90s came around, premarital sex is accepted by most adults.

[omgwtfToph]

Re: Premaritial Sex

The sex orgies of the 70s and 80s were fueled on cocaine and by the time the 90s came around, premarital sex is accepted by most adults.

This is actually a really funny sentence.

[Mookage]

Re: Premaritial Sex

Being a child in a divorced home I know that most adults practice premaritial sex. Both my parents are in relationships in which they have ingaged in sexual activity while neither of them have remarried. Therefore, having been brought up around premaritial sex I have lost the influence that the Catholic faith gave me which is rejecting premaritial sex.

[Chrissi]

Re: Premaritial Sex

This is an odd way of phrasing it - I, as well as others who abstain, do not want to have sex before we are married. The urge and the compulsion is still there, yes, but abstinence is about putting what you know is best for you in the long term above the passions and desires of the moment. It is not about denying what you want - it is about putting what you want above your urges.

Don't see how that's relevant to what I said.

Wrong! Utterly, utterly wrong. I do care about those things, but I don't see either meaningless sex, sex when you're not ready, or sex with people other than the one you love as being plausible means to those ends.

Premarital sex does not mean it's meaningless, not-ready, or non-loving. Maybe you interpret it this way. I don't. I love my boyfriend. Sex with him is very meaningful to me. So we're not married. So what.

I don't think there's such a thing as "sexual compatibility"

Sorry, but I just have to... HAHAHAHAHA... okay... I guess it's not your fault. You're severely naive.

unless you're interested in nonmonogamous, short term relationships

Everyone has a sexual preference. Not just people in non-monogamous short-term relationships.

, in which case abstinence probably isn't the best choice for you (if you read my post you would have seen where I said that.) The elements of a good sexual relationship are communication, trust, physical attraction, compatible personalities, etc...these attributes are far more important than the geometry of the act.

I agree entirely, however, you are missing my point. It wasn't just the geometry. Say your partner turns out to looooooove BDSM and can only get his/her rocks off if you're pinching his/her nipples; however, you find the act repulsive and get turned off. This is just one of many examples of sexual incompatibility.

You develop a good sex life with someone else based on a relationship that you already know contains those elements. Not the other way around.

Agree.

And people who abstain are quite particular. If you're only going to have sex with one person for your entire life, you're going to make damn sure that you're compatible with them.

So if you are going to be with them for the rest of your life, why don't you make sure you enjoy sex with them first? Love, affection, respect, experience, and attraction don't guarantee you an enjoyable sexual experience.

Bolded for emphasis, since premarital sex isn't a way to avoid this either! Yes, the more experience you have, the better you are at sex. But what's wrong with developing that experience, and learning the ins and outs of sexuality (no pun intended) with the person you plan on spending the rest of your life with? You make it seem like premarital sex is somehow a remedy for sexual inexperience, and it's not.

No qualms here, good point made. Learning with your partner is a good idea.

I don't know whether to ascribe that comment to ignorance or cynicism, but suggestion that women who abstain will never achieve orgasm is not only factually incorrect, but insulting to countless men who abstained until marriage. If you cannot put the other person's sexual wants before yours, then you are not in a loving relationship.

It's not about "putting your patner's sexual needs before yours". You may be perfectly willing and excited about pleasing your partner; however, that doesn't mean you're going to be successful. First of all, your partner NEEDS to know how to please themselves before you can EVER BEGIN to know how to please them. Otherwise it's just a shot in the dark.

My real point here was that often, people who abstain come into their relationship expecting great sex right off the bat due to their strong, dedicated love for one another, but in actual fact, love and sex aren't dependent on one another. Sure, they may best be enjoyed together, but love doesn't guarantee great sex. That's the point I'm trying to make. Another point I'm trying to make is that, statistically, women who don't masturbate tend to be chronic anorgasmics. As in, they will never have an orgasm in their lives. It's not due to the unwillingness of the partner; it's due to a lack of personal experience and lack of knowledge about her own body. If she can't please herself, you probably can't please her. This is especially true of females, which is why I'm saying "her". Men tend to be a lot easier to please, physically, sexually. Non-masturbating women tend to be VERY, VERY difficult. From what I've heard (which is a lot), women who can't, haven't, or aren't willing to have an orgasm masturbating are highly unlikely to have an orgasm from their partner. Ever.

No. You just know more about your perspective.

No, I was actually referring to the fact that I study sex, marriage, and families in university. It is my minor. As an academic in the field, I know more than most people about these issues. I hope to be a counsellor one day. Possibly a sexual counsellor.

Since you attempted to find flaws in the concept of abstinence, if your points were valid, why wouldn't they be important to an abstainer?

Not seeing your point,

What's wrong with that? In fact, doesn't that sound like the best thing ever? To enjoy sex, no matter what?

It's more along the lines of not knowing what you're missing.

The part I bolded is absolutely true. Masturbation causes you to associate the sexual response with something that is inward, self-centered, and focused on individual pleasure, rather than something that is shared, altruistic, and focused on the other. It's like the idea of "set and setting" - I'd rather not make the set and setting for orgasm something that I do alone and bring upon myself.

I'll have to find more information about this; it sounds interesting.

And for the record: "pregnancy/STDs" is the worst argument against abstinence there could possibly be.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I don't know when I tried to argue this. As I explained, masturbating but not having sex is still abstinence. It is, by its very definition, the lack of SEX, not masturbation, that makes someone abstinent.

[vifs]

Re: Premaritial Sex

Sperm don't "pass through" condoms. I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but let me have a crack at them.

Ok like 2 years ago in 9th grade in health we had the "Family Life" Unit
basicly all we learned was where everything was and this dude came in to tell us to pracitice absanice(sp?)
we didn't go over anything else but that pretty much, the school system wasn't even aloud to show us what a comdom looked like
I don't know how it is in other schools but here you don't learn jack

[User6773]

Re: Premaritial Sex

Don't see how that's relevant to what I said.

You said "For some, the best option is to have sex whenever you want." Abstinent people have sex whenever we want, too. We just don't have it before we're married.

Premarital sex does not mean it's meaningless, not-ready, or non-loving. Maybe you interpret it this way. I don't. I love my boyfriend. Sex with him is very meaningful to me. So we're not married. So what.

Point conceded. But that still doesn't mean that premarital sex is necessary to achieve a high level of sexual satisfaction.

Sorry, but I just have to... HAHAHAHAHA... okay... I guess it's not your fault. You're severely naive.

Do my other statements and observations suggest I'm naive? I know a fairly significant amount about human sexuality. What I meant to indicate was that there is no trait of "sexual compatibility" in a relationship that is independent of the things I mentioned: trust, attraction, communication, etc. The things that Jewpin mentioned earlier mostly fall under one of those categories. For example, if person X is a prude and person Y is open to sexual experimentation, then chances are they don't have compatible personalities. Furthermore, a couple typically talks about all major issues (sexuality included) before a marriage. It's not like you can only discuss thoughts, feelings, and opinions about sex after you've already had sex.

Everyone has a sexual preference. Not just people in non-monogamous short-term relationships.

Don't get what you're saying here.

I agree entirely, however, you are missing my point. It wasn't just the geometry. Say your partner turns out to looooooove BDSM and can only get his/her rocks off if you're pinching his/her nipples; however, you find the act repulsive and get turned off. This is just one of many examples of sexual incompatibility.

Again, this seems like a personality/communication issue. I don't know enough about fetishes to really make an appropriate counterpoint, but it's not like couples refrain from all physical activity before marriage. Different abstaining couples have different personal limits, of course, but you still learn something about the person you're with through any physical acts of affection.

So if you are going to be with them for the rest of your life, why don't you make sure you enjoy sex with them first? Love, affection, respect, experience, and attraction don't guarantee you an enjoyable sexual experience.

Perhaps not at first, but it guarantees you that you've found someone you're willing to take the journey to a satisfying sexual experience with.

It's not about "putting your patner's sexual needs before yours". You may be perfectly willing and excited about pleasing your partner; however, that doesn't mean you're going to be successful. First of all, your partner NEEDS to know how to please themselves before you can EVER BEGIN to know how to please them. Otherwise it's just a shot in the dark.

Simply untrue. Why must the goal of learning what pleases you be achieved individually? I don't argue that abstinent people have sex lives that are free of difficulty. That's what I mean about putting what the other person needs first - your objective is to find out what pleases them.

An analogy might be cooking. Say you know how to cook a wide variety of dishes, but your wife has never heard of any of them and is unfamiliar with the ingredients in them. Are you going to say "Well, that sucks, I guess you better keep cooking for yourself until you learn some of the dishes I make, and then I'll cook for you," or are you going to say "Why don't I try cooking various things and you can see what you like and what you don't, and we can communicate with one another and I can learn how to cook things just the way you like them?"

There is a large amount of discovery required to achieve a satisfying sex life - personal discovery, and discovery about the other person. I've never contested this. I just don't understand why undertaking that discovery with the other person is sub-optimal.

My real point here was that often, people who abstain come into their relationship expecting great sex right off the bat due to their strong, dedicated love for one another

I don't know anyone who is abstinent and thinks this. I don't doubt that there are people who think this, but I don't know them. And I don't understand how the misconceptions of others about abstinence harm the practice of abstinence at all.

love doesn't guarantee great sex. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Love guarantees great sex eventually.

Another point I'm trying to make is that, statistically, women who don't masturbate tend to be chronic anorgasmics. As in, they will never have an orgasm in their lives. It's not due to the unwillingness of the partner; it's due to a lack of personal experience and lack of knowledge about her own body. If she can't please herself, you probably can't please her.

See a couple points above. This is why communication is important. There's nothing specially beneficial about masturbation that is not true about regular intercourse. Besides, if the woman already knows what pleases her, but can't communicate it to her husband, how is that different than the woman not knowing what pleases her at all? A satisfying sex life is dependent upon communication (among other things, of course, but communication is very very very important.) You don't just magically have better sex because you masturbate.

From what I've heard (which is a lot), women who can't, haven't, or aren't willing to have an orgasm masturbating are highly unlikely to have an orgasm from their partner. Ever.

Abstinent, non-masturbating women? Let's make sure we're covering all bases of the argument here.

It's more along the lines of not knowing what you're missing.

If you're having a very satisfying sex life with the love of your life, who cares if it's not the most satisfying sex life you could possibly be having? And if you're with the love of your life, the very satisfying sex life is like the whipped cream & cherry on the sundae. It's not the heart of the relationship, and it's not the reason you stay with the other person. It helps you stay happy, but it's not the reason you are happy.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I don't know when I tried to argue this. As I explained, masturbating but not having sex is still abstinence. It is, by its very definition, the lack of SEX, not masturbation, that makes someone abstinent.

My bad. That wasn't against you, that was against other people trying to defend premarital sex by playing the pregnancy/STD card.

[vifs]

Re: Premaritial Sex

i guess this helps prove that we never learn anything in school, but why is it so hard for a girl to have a orgaism? doesn't seem that complicated to me