United States eventual future?

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

Your abilty to point to a number of interesting things, potentially coincidences, about a single bill design can be easily explained as one person involved in the bill design process being a mason and working a number of mason references into it. I mean, how is this different than the word 'sex' in the lion king, or any other deliberately inserted references by peolpe involved in designing?

Also, I'm pretty positive that when the date on American currency is 1776, that the date of independance is about the only provable significance you can point to.

[Jordan da Man]

Re: United States eventual future?

Your abilty to point to a number of interesting things, potentially coincidences, about a single bill design can be easily explained as one person involved in the bill design process being a mason and working a number of mason references into it. I mean, how is this different than the word 'sex' in the lion king, or any other deliberately inserted references by peolpe involved in designing?

Just because the president was a mason does not mean that all of the people involved in designing the bill were. Yes, it is guessed that most were, but we have no evidence. I dont think that one man, even the president could influence countless men to include references to masonry. I do believe that they lefet their marks on purpose.

Plus, for many generations now, these references have been known by countless people. Why would it still be around had it not been true? We've changed the 10, 20, 50, and the 100 dollar bill, yet the 1 dollar bill, the only one with known refrences to the Freemasons is still unchanged? We may never know.

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

Um...so some masons were involved in the design of the bill, and included a bunch of mason references...nowhere in there is there -anything- that points to any kind of conspiracy or deeper meaning beyond an arrogant pride in your organisation.

[Jordan da Man]

Re: United States eventual future?

Um...so some masons were involved in the design of the bill, and included a bunch of mason references...nowhere in there is there -anything- that points to any kind of conspiracy or deeper meaning beyond an arrogant pride in your organisation.

The conspiracy that our government very well may be based around the Freemason?

Think about it, not only has the government not get rid of the proof, but they've encouraged the thinking! There are so many clues out there that point to it, bot just the dollar bill. They've taken these clues and based their entire government around it. The seal, the eagle, the All seeing eye, everything!

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

Um no...you have -some- evidence for a conspiracy that the dollar bill may be based around Freemasonry. Nothing more. You'll need to do a lot better than pointing to all the ways you can read masonry into the dollar bill, to establish that the government is "based around" freemasonry.

Especially since a) The documents around which the government is based are easily and freely accessable and readable, and don't mention anything about freemasonry, and b) freemasonry tries so hard to be all secret and closed-door, that with no way to know what freemasonry is -actually- about, all we have to go on for their connectedness is your word, which unfortunately is hearsay.

[hsb969acidtears]

Re: United States eventual future?

Well I do agree that sometimes people give the government way to much power, and that some of the power given is completely unreasonable, especially with what they do with it. However; I do not believe that things will end up the way it was before. After time, when people think that the government has to much power, we will fight for it back, because in time they will realize what their doing.

I also think that people should try fixing their own problems instead of resorting to government force or the law to fix things...

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

I also think that people should try fixing their own problems instead of resorting to government force or the law to fix things...

While this would certainly be a whole other topic/thread, I just want to clarify your point here. It sounds like you are in support of vigilantism, would you say that is accurate?

[hsb969acidtears]

Re: United States eventual future?

No, i just believe that people shouldn't resort to always making the law make all their decisions for them. I only said this because this is what my mother does. I can't speak a single cuss word to her or she'll call the cops on me, and blames me every time she yells. Yes that is a whole new subject, but it comes to where people shouldn't always turn to the government to fix their problems, because we're giving them our freedom at the same time we're doing this.

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

I can't speak a single cuss word to her or she'll call the cops on me

I'm quite positive that profanity isn't actually against the law. The closest possible charge she could try to raise on you would be verbal assault, and unless she's recorded you, there's a little difficulty in proving it.

Further, you can't have it both ways though. If you say that law shouldn't be appealed to to redress problems, then you can't have it that the law still protects you when you personally want it to.

If someone stole from you, the only real way to say that stealing is even wrong is to appeal to the laws forbidding it. And if you want to make that appeal to law to say that such things are wrong, you have to take the laws you dont' agree with alongside the ones you do agree with.

Of course, you can and should be doing what you can to raise awareness of what you consider to be unjust laws, writing letters to legislators etc, but you can't really justify ignoring the laws you personally dislike if you still want the ones you like to be in force.

[Relambrien]

Re: United States eventual future?

Of course, you can and should be doing what you can to raise awareness of what you consider to be unjust laws, writing letters to legislators etc, but you can't really justify ignoring the laws you personally dislike if you still want the ones you like to be in force.

Thoreau says otherwise. He argues that "government...is only the mode which the people have chosen to execute their will," and that a person should heed his own conscience before the law. Thus, just laws remain enforced and unjust laws are removed.

But I'm sure you already know about this; I don't know why I'm explaining it.

[devonin]

Re: United States eventual future?

Thoreau would be in prison. His call, I guess. But I find that those in authority take you a lot more seriously when you can demonstrate that while you are a law-abiding citizen, you take issue with some specific laws currently under active enforcement.

I know I'd take someone more seriously who didn't respond to issues with authority by the complete rejection of that authority.

And I mean, like you said: Just laws remian enforced, Unjust laws are removed. It just helps facilitate that process, when the people who want to effect change still demonstrate respect.

[Coolgamer]

Re: United States eventual future?

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_022.html

An interesting article about the so-called freemason plot.

Let's leave it at that, and get back on topic. Conspiracy theories that have no validation and no connection to this topic can be discussed elsewhere.

[guitarist-jk]

Re: United States eventual future?

in the next 12 months there is going to be a complete melt down in america making it seem like the great depression.

an econimist predicted this 4 years ago. I forget his name.

[Bynary Fission]

Re: United States eventual future?

This country is already a dictatorship trying to look democratic. The country can and already has done things such as place people who advocate against America's policies for running the country on the No-Fly List. This country is barely a democracy anymore. Mostly it's a plutocracy. Whoever has the most money wins. How's that for fair? Our founding fathers didn't want separate political parties because of the problems they would cause. Look now. The democrats and republicans always fight, never agree on anything, and do nothing for our country but leech off of us while they get their 225,000$ paychecks.

We are sliding downwards from our own failing country. Our education system is a failure. In 10-15 years time there will not be enough educated people to run the country. America has the worst health care in all of the industrialized nations. Our presidents and politicians are corrupt, moral-less, sub-human aberrations of living beings. Our credit system isn't working. The house market is collapsing. The IRS terrorizes our country.

People are not even given their constitutional rights. There was a man who wrote 'under protest' beneath a check he sent to the IRS. They gave him a 500$ fine. When he went to court, he said that by the Constitution, he is allowed to protest the government without repercussion. He lost. The Secret Service can take you away at any time, deny you habeas corpus, and lock you up for life. No trial. And you're innocent. And this just scratches the surface. There is a whole lot more to this sordid story.

My point is, this country is no longer America, the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. We've degenerated into some fascist-like nation that has the audacity to call it's self a 'democracy'. What a slap to the face that is to all nations that are truly democratic. Hell, our vote doesn't even count when we give it. That's not a democracy, yes? I may even move out of America until it gets back in shape when I'm 18...which is several years off sadly. That is, if it ever improves.

~Bynary Fission


P.S The top 1% of the country owns some 33% of the nations wealth. And they do the easy jobs. How's that for fair? It isn't. Talk to the Mexican who immigrated from Mexico to here, and does back-breaking labor at a construction site for more than 75 hours a week for 35000$ a year. Maybe less. Now talk to the politician who makes 150-250000$ a year doing a job that they probably don't do well. How's that for fair?

[IaMtHeEaStErBuNnY]

Re: United States eventual future?

America has become a petty nation, ruled by petty people. We are fickle, vindictive, and egotistical. Think of the nation as a balloon: as of now, we are too full of ourselves, and pretty soon, with the rate of our declining economy and the dying breed known as the dollar bill, we will pop. We are shooting for another economic depression. Our pride will eventually become our downfall. We have become a nation that refuses to leave other nations affairs alone, and we lend a "friendly hand" to nations in need, when roughly 3.5 million homeless AMERICAN citizens are roaming the streets with not a bite to eat. Americans are outraged at illegal immigration, which provides for almost 15% of our workforce. America is no longer a Democracy, despite popular belief. It has now become a nation run by the highest bidder/s. Satisfy the needs of the right people, and you can get away with much more than murder.

This nation will collapse in a matter of time. It makes me sick to be called American.