The Death Penalty

[tsugomaru]

Re: The Death Penalty

If you are thinking about a painless death through chemicals, forget it. Studies show that more than half of the people killed through chemicals do not receive less anesthesia than a patient going through surgery. When you see videos of people dying through chemicals, they look like they don't feel the pain at all, but that's only because they are paralyzed. Who knows what kind of pain one would go through before actually dying.

~Tsugomaru

[sumzup]

Re: The Death Penalty

I rather think the most painless method of death would be to overdose on some sort of anesthetic. After a certain amount, the anesthetic would become toxic and kill the recipient.

As for the actual death penalty, I will merely direct everyone to this. Several of the last statements have the prisoner professing their innocence; sure, some may have done it as some sort of last joke, but I believe the majority of those who did proclaim innocence were innocent.

Plus, I have no idea why the death penalty is supposed to be a harsher punishment than solitary confinement. Personally, I'd rather die than spend years of my life in a jail cell, let out for one hour each day to exercise.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

I don't think I would factor in pain to my death sentence, just speed. I would personally rather get over with it. Of course, it would be nice to have a quick AND painless death, but beggars can't be choosers.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

My post was directed at Tate, who was the one who said he wanted people to be able to pick their method of execution.

Barring the psychological suffering of knowing your death is impending (which I suppose you get no matter the method) arguably the most efficient and painless method of execution was the guillotine.

[sumzup]

Re: The Death Penalty

I'm not sure if the guillotine was necessarily painless. Lavoisier (famous chemist) himself was guillotined, and as a last experiment, asked a friend to watch his head; the head blinked several times before finally dying.

[benguino]

Re: The Death Penalty

Unless the person is completly insane then (s)he should have the option of how to die. It is their life anyway.

[sumzup]

Re: The Death Penalty

Yes, it's their life, but the point is that they are not trusted to run their life according to society's guidelines, and are being forced to abide by society's will.

As far as options on death go, one enters murky waters when considering (in the US at least) "cruel and unusual punishment." Is the death penalty cruel and unusual? If it isn't in general, are there specific methods that would be cruel and unusual, and would they still be cruel and unusual if the prisoner voluntarily opted for one of those methods?

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Isn't letting them pick their death like suicide? Which is like giving them an ultimatum which they do not deserve.

[benguino]

Re: The Death Penalty

Maybe a checklist of 4 or 5 ways that are very known and considered acceptable to most Americans would be a good idea, thus still giving them a desicion but still not allowing them to kill themselves in a horrific manner.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

What if the crime they committee was completely awful and terrible.

Example(don't read this if you have virgin ears):
There's a man. He goes into a pre-school and kidnappes ten kids. He sodomizes and murders a four-year-old boy. Then he rapes and tortures a four-year-old girl. Then he takes two of the children and burns them alive, taping it and forcing the others to watch it while he cuts their limbs off. Next he breaks into a house and murderers the family while taking their heads as souveniers. Finally he resorts to cannibelism of the elderly before killing himself.

Whoa... I think I just sacred myself. My point is, what should this person deserve? Life behind bars costing the American economy lots of money to house, feed, and clothe him. Or a death sentence; just end it all. By the way, keep in mind the evidence used to [hypothetically] convict him was substantial and also hypothetically he was guilty.

P.S. Sorry, I don't use some of those words a lot so I wasn't sure on some of the spelling.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

Isn't letting them pick their death like suicide? Which is like giving them an ultimatum which they do not deserve.

Um...whether they pick or not you are going to kill them. How does letting them choose the manner of their death somehow make it suicide? Your explicit plan is to murder them. Suicide doesn't enter into it at all.

What if the crime they committee was completely awful and terrible.

I simply refuse to believe that the person you describe in your example is possibly someone who you would classify as being mentally stable and in their right mind. They are clearly suffering from some sort of severe mental problems that ought to be addressed before you present the choice as being life in jail vs execution. False Dilemma ftl.

And as for the deleted posts: Zythus, RZR's example included someone videotaping themselves committing crimes, and presumably given the detail present in the example, confessing and describing what they did. Saying "Well there's still no such thing as 100% proof" becomes a little faceitous at this point. Confession obviates the need for proof in pretty much all legal proceedings. And RZR: I should never see anybody in CT saying "If you don't ____, Don't post"

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Um...whether they pick or not you are going to kill them. How does letting them choose the manner of their death somehow make it suicide? Your explicit plan is to murder them. Suicide doesn't enter into it at all.

I simply refuse to believe that the person you describe in your example is possibly someone who you would classify as being mentally stable and in their right mind. They are clearly suffering from some sort of severe mental problems that ought to be addressed before you present the choice as being life in jail vs execution. False Dilemma ftl.

And as for the deleted posts: Zythus, RZR's example included someone videotaping themselves committing crimes, and presumably given the detail present in the example, confessing and describing what they did. Saying "Well there's still no such thing as 100% proof" becomes a little faceitous at this point. Confession obviates the need for proof in pretty much all legal proceedings. And RZR: I should never see anybody in CT saying "If you don't ____, Don't post"

I'm sorry, it won't happen again.

[ballaw hare]

Re: The Death Penalty

What if the crime they committee was completely awful and terrible.

Example(don't read this if you have virgin ears):
There's a man. He goes into a pre-school and kidnappes ten kids. He sodomizes and murders a four-year-old boy. Then he rapes and tortures a four-year-old girl. Then he takes two of the children and burns them alive, taping it and forcing the others to watch it while he cuts their limbs off. Next he breaks into a house and murderers the family while taking their heads as souveniers. Finally he resorts to cannibelism of the elderly before killing himself.

Whoa... I think I just sacred myself. My point is, what should this person deserve? Life behind bars costing the American economy lots of money to house, feed, and clothe him. Or a death sentence; just end it all. By the way, keep in mind the evidence used to [hypothetically] convict him was substantial and also hypothetically he was guilty.

P.S. Sorry, I don't use some of those words a lot so I wasn't sure on some of the spelling.

Well 2 wrongs don't make a right, how are you any better by just killing them?
The death penalty is just an easy way out because you don't feel like trying to understand the person and see if they are really "mentally stable".

Also, consider if he's just a look a like and didn't really do the crime. Is innocents people's death worth it just to catch some criminals? Are you willing to tell the person's family "Yes, he/she died wrongly, but it was worth it cause we sentenced 4 other guilty people to death".

[DDRXTIIDX]

Re: The Death Penalty

By the way, keep in mind the evidence used to <hypothetically> convict him was substantial and also hypothetically he was guilty.

Do remember that there has been no known "take it in, feel much better" miracle drug for mental retardation. Well, not in one go, as far as I'm concerned. Suppose they took a test and checked his records? The defendant could plead insanity, and less... drastic... actions will be taken. That would be containment in a special facility. Any pedo, rapist and kleptomaniac could do such a thing, provided they have enough IQ/motor skills/etc. for operating any film equipment. Yet I'm open to the notion that even those with maldeveloped minds could choose the death sentence.

The example shows that the man killed himself. Perhaps you didn't mention that he could be "slow", but there is always a possibility. Mentally sane people would usually avoid such a fate and, of course, imprisonment altogether. He wouldn't need a death sentence now that he's dead. But there are other scenarios:

1. The man is retarded, and is alive: Then the first paragraph will explain that.
2. The man is not retarded, and is alive: Then he will deserve a death penalty OR a lifetime sentence, until proven otherwise. Sometimes, said person could make the decision.
3. The man is personally released by President, under probation: Highly unlikely for such a severe case, but possible. If the man does it again, then he really WILL deserve the penalty.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Ok, let me clarify a few things about my example:

- This man is not mentally unstable in any way whatsoever.
- This man has never met the people whom he acted upon therefore giving no prior reason for said actions
- The evidence used to prosecute this man was 100% perfect. Take this is you please [you can use any means you'd like. I.e. DNA testing, eye witness, anything the evidence I will provide, in theory, every person used to convict him (judge, magistrate, jury, etc) had interviewed said man
- This man had perfect means, and opportunity
- This man's motive was clear and precise, yet not mentally insane

Ok, use these to actually answer my question. It's not a "there could've been this" or a "there's usually that." No, this is exactly what happened. No ifs, no buts.

@ Balla: I agree, two wrongs do not make a right. My justification for the use of the death penalty (or at least part of my justification, in fact a fraction) is [in this scenario] this mans action's were far greater than many would view a life sentence be adequate for. In addition, think of all the wasted American tax dollars used to house, clothe, feed, and sanitize this man that could more efficiently be used to repair school buildings, fund medical research, increase the productivity of space exploration, create intelligence agencies for investigating international terrorists and/or increasede national defense to protect from said terrorists, etc.