What's a poor guy to do?

[edubardus]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Synth is god.

Agreed.

[spyke252]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Ever thought about going on another forum where your opinions are held in high regard?

Hm. So if you want to play a sport (Let us define the sport as football) and you aren't one of the best players out there, rather than try to better yourself at it, you should go back to playing video games. Or, rather than debating a higher-level thinking novel that has more than one idea, you should just go back to reading Dr. Seuss. Does this make sense?

Now, I know that this post may incite others to dislike me, I believe that the topic creator made a correct decision. Though the statement could have been made in better ways (it could be in the correct forum, it could be not worded hypothetically if it is a real situation, etc), it alerts the public to know something is not right. Whether this something is with the moderators or admin, with the message system, or with people just are not showing respect to other people ("Oh, I have been here longer than you, so I am better than you" is not a valid statement- it's elitist; as long as the newer people follow the regulations and contribute to the society, they should be treated at least with the respect that their effort into their posts deserve), it is important to know.

The topic creator's message may have spurred the moderators to listen to his opinion. Looking back, GrandiaGod seems to flame unprovocatively, and has since been banned. I do not know if there has been a grudge between them for a while; if there had, I may react differently. And though I may be new here myself, I have read the stickies (Please avoid stereotyping me; it would not be appreciated) and I hope I do not come across as attacking any veteran members.

On topic, I believe the best thing to do at a time like that would be to ask for help from the general public. As I read into the situation, the person having the troubles seems to be past the point of ignoring the provokers, yet reducing himself or herself to their level by using their tactics against them should not be their next choice. As the Moderators of this hypothetical situation have not shown any action to the provokers (Though this is unclear. Did they reply saying that they will do nothing? Did they not reply at all? How many attempts were there to converse with them? What punishments they gave may have been in secret, as most leaders give.), there are only two politically and morally correct choices that come to mind- either ask other people, or leave the society permanently.

[Laharl]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

^I like this guy. I hope he sticks around awhile.

As for the "ever thought about going somewhere new?", I'm a rather active member of quite a few message boards, and most of them are a lot more mature than here. As I've said, I still like FFR's community although not because of the majority, but minority of people in it that stand out. Some of my very best and closest internet friends, I have made through this site. I don't want to give up just because there are a lot of close-minded people who don't like my particular brand of self-awareness or whatever you want to call it that I am that they disagree with.

[Anticrombie0909]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Respect is earned, not freely given.

Maybe you should solve your own problems instead of running to the authorities to solve them for you.

[spyke252]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Respect is earned, not freely given.

Alright, so I shall return to my football example.

Consider Mark. Mark is a High School freshman, just deciding what sports he wishes to partake in, what clubs he wishes to join, what classes he wishes to take. He decides to take (classwise) Computer Science, (sportwise) Football, and join the Debate team.

He excels in his Computer Science class, through nothing other than his aptitude in the subject. So much so, in fact, that his teacher moves him from Computer Science 1, to Computer Science 2. The people in his previous class envy him for his talents, the people in his new class respect him for his level of work. This is even though he just became a member of the class; they realize his promotion meant he knew what he was doing. However, he now actually had to work, and was struggling slightly to catch up. The others in his class helped him by critiquing his work, not yelling at his mistakes.

Being a quarterback in Football, however, he wasn't nearly as good. His teammates always yelled at him for screwing up, he couldn't even talk to the varsity players because "He was a freshman" and "He couldn't do anything right". He worked on his throwing and passing some, but his enthusiasm was stifled through his teammate's attitude toward him. He quit before the end of his first season.

In Debate, he was a powerhouse. He could argue that one equals two, and have enough evidence through math, enough knowledge of basic physics, even some history. But, one of those people who step on everyone else to get ahead kept stealing his over-the-week assignments, and got all of the credit. Since he was thought to be cheating off the other person, he was disrespected by everyone on the team. At first, he thought the person would get bored, and forget about him. However, his notes still kept being stolen. He tried to keep two sets of notes, a fake one and a real one, but somehow, he always "lost" his real set. Three months into the club, he decided to tell the sponsor. The sponsor did not believe him. And so he left.

Three months later, he finished 9th grade. The seniors in varsity football graduated, but he really didn't care about football anymore. Nor did the ignorant teammates really care for their needing a quarterback, he felt. His Debate notes Thief confessed after realizing he did not have the skills necessary to make as great a debate as Mark. And, all of the people on the team tried to ask him back, but he didn't want to return to the team anymore. What good would he do for them? They worked just fine without him.

But in Computer Science, he held fast. He blazed through, and he not only earned straight A's, he completed half of Computer Science 3 in the school year. He went on to get 5's on the two AP tests for Computer Science, became the Computer Team Leader and won several competitions at a local college, and became MSE (Microsoft Systems Engineer) certified before finishing his Senior year at High School.

Now, which groups did he benefit from? Which groups benefited from him?

The group that helped him out, also got the most out of him. The groups that yelled at him, got nothing from him. Ignoring his obvious potential for debate, the Debate team lost its possibly most prominent member. The football team never knew what they had lost, but their quarterback on varsity now is a sophomore, and is about as good a player as Mark was. But the Computer Science class helping him out, definately enjoyed his leadership when he reached their level, and beyond.

Something to think about. Giving a little respect can help one to grow, and learn, making them a better person in society as a whole, which also gives you a reason to respect them.

[Laharl]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Respect is earned, not freely given.

Maybe you should solve your own problems instead of running to the authorities to solve them for you.

My problems stem from people breaking the rules of the forums in order to harass me. The authorities looked the other way initially, and so I did take things into my own hands by playing the trolling game right back at them, which oddly enough got me banned rather than the people who initially perpetuated the trolling.

So I learned from that mistake. If it wasn't for the fact I am friends with a few of the mods via instant messengers, I would have been banned until April of next year for something that should have been a week-long ban (which is what it got changed to, thankfully.) This post is not intended as a "WOE IS ME, MEIN LIEBEN IST KAPUT." I honestly want to know what it is I need to go do to fit in, at least enough so that I'm not attacked for no other reason that I'm me. Which brings me back to what Grandiagod said earlier, about asking the people who don't like me this question? They're the ones that are my foils, and the ones I need to stop being so hateful towards me. If I was already getting along with everyone, a post like this wouldn't be needed.

I actually would have been content to leave this as a hypothetical situation, and would have preferred it, but it seems a lot of you guys are keen and intent to drag my own personal stupid dramas back into the spotlight.

@ Spyke: I would argue that the debate team benefitted from his presense, although unknowingly. A weak member of the team made himself strong by presenting someone else's works, yes, but it was still a weak team member making himself strong. Were he not there for the other person to steal his work, they'd have been down a solid arguement every time another school was debated. I would think that he still wouldn't return to that debate team because he felt abused and unappreciated despite the team's desire to make it right (if indeed their reason for asking him back was because they wanted to make amends and not to increase the ability of their team.)

[Anticrombie0909]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

@spyke: what

EDIT: Ok curiosity got the better of me and I actually went back and read your long winded diatribe.

What's your fucking point?

All I got out of your stupid story was that Mark got respect in the class he was good in, and a stupid douche got him kicked out of Debate, and he didn't get respect in the area he sucked at.

You proved my point. Respect is earned, not given. He earned his respect in his Comp Sci class by being good at computer science, and didn't get respect from the foot ball team because he sucked at football. Your debate scenario is a bit of a red herring and doesn't really pertain to this situation at all.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

So I guess things like minority rights have just always been there, that it wasn't because minorities made an issue about them and managed to 'win'.

Jesus, do I need to spell everything out for you?

Because minorities could get up and do something. They could refuse to give up their bus seat. They could perform sit-ins. They could march on Washington. How are you going to do anything as meaningful as those things on a message board? Please provide specific examples of things a user can do to force a change of attitude on other users.

I must say, I've gotta disagree with your 3 scenarios too. Firstly, you're putting Synth like a God in this place. Just because he runs it and is all-powerful

Sounds like a God to me.

doesn't mean that he a) can't have his opinion about an issue changed by what someone else thinks, whether that person is in the minority or majority

This will only arise if someone presents factual information pertinent to the issue that Synth had been unable to consider previously. Otherwise, why would he listen to someone else telling him how to run his site?

or b) that if he doesn't care, that makes it a failed topic or something.

I have no idea what you mean by "failed topic" because we're discussing inter-user issues rather than CT-style discussions.

You're saying opinion only has power when it manages to reach THE power, in this case, Synth. But you only get this by thinking that an individual person is powerless to begin with.

Take the topic post in particular. What can Laharl do about people harassing him without site staff backup?

The only time that Synth has ANY bearing on issues like this is if he decides to use his authority. Synth isn't constantly patrolling forums and smiting evil. It seems like he's largely leaving the people on them to bicker as they see fit, thereby passing the power over to us.

Which ends up being my "Synth doesn't care" case, where the majority rules.

Also, your earlier statement that you don't have to listen to someone if you don't want to, also reinforces your idea. If you don't listen to people, then there's no way the people you don't listen to will have any sort of power. Not listening takes away any power someone can have.

Well, hey, thanks for supporting my argument.

I don't require anyone on this site listen to me, so I don't see why I should be required to listen to anyone else (at least among the populace that is not above me). People are welcome to listen to me if they so choose, and I listen to other people if I so choose.

[spyke252]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

@spyke: what

What's your point?

Each scenario represents a society.

The football scenario resembles the society that does not give new people a chance. From the very beginning, the varsity members despised him. They ended up losing a member who would really help them, and they dont even realize it.

The Comp Sci scenario represents the society that realizes how everyone has potential. Though he did well in Comp Sci 1, he is having trouble keeping up in Comp Sci 2. With others' help, he learns, and then he helps them.

The Debate scenario represents the society that assumes. They assume that Mark is the one cheating (which shows they are elitist as well; the other is not cheating because he has been there longer) and don't even try to get the full story. Even the government (here, the sponsor) ignores his plea for help, and they, once again, lose a member who could really help them out.

Does this explain what I have said?

In short, if you show respect to someone, then that someone will earn respect by his lonesome. But if you only give respect after someone earns it, then you shut out many people who, after time, may become contributing members of society.

[studmuffin51306]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

SHUT UP.

Y'all have ruined this forum.

[Cavernio]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

awww, muffin

Well, I must say that actions speak louder than words, but honestly, refusing to sit on the back of the bus isn't like blowing up a building. It says that that person refuses to be rated second class. I can just as easily say that in words. "I refuse to be treated as a second class citizen". Done and done. And its just as easily done as refusing to be bullied away from a forum. You can just as easily refuse to pay attention to the message that refusing to sit at the back of the bus carries, as you can refuse to listen to what someone else says.
And if you're going to say that there ARE other actions, like blowing things up, just think about the negative response people get from violent actions. But if you want to go negatively, there's hacking and such to prove points, taking away power from those who are in it.
If Synth is making this site so that people can enjoy themselves, he'd listen to what others say so he can attain this goal. Why on earth would someone not listen to what people say about their work, their baby?

A point of view is factual. Subjective, but factual.

Well, if people listened to Laharl, then he's got power over them by making them see his side of the issue, making the issue stop. That's my point, that listening to people empowers them, and we agree with that, as you said. IF mods don't do anything, then the power we all have is in communication. By listening to people, where the majority stands can change. The majority isn't static, but it will automatically be so if a minority never says anything. You, however, by apparently not choosing to listen to some people, and assuming that people are the same as you, in that they probably won't bother listening to someone, then yes, power is only in the hands of moderators, and yes, the current majority will always rule. A lot of what you say is true, but I don't like it and don't support it, and I obviously also think that what I'm saying is true.

If someone is addressing you, putting information in front of you, then I think we all have a responsibility to listen to them. To do otherwise is just not nice. :-p

[Kilgamayan]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Hacking or DoSing this website would be the fast track to getting banned.

Also, people listening to what Laharl has to say isn't going to make the issue stop, as has already been demonstrated through people reading his posts and, well, not stopping.

[Laharl]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

Hacking or DoSing this website would be the fast track to getting banned.

Also, people listening to what Laharl has to say isn't going to make the issue stop, as has already been demonstrated through people reading his posts and, well, not stopping.

That's not entirely true. I've made amends with quite a few people over AIM in the past few days, and oddly enough, they were the ones to message me first.

There's still a lot of morons, sure, but that's to be figured when you're dealing with a site of one million accounts of people mostly between the ages of 13 and 17.

[Cavernio]

Re: What's a poor guy to do?

True kilga, even though apparently some amends have been made.
Listening depends on interpretation too.