TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Sorry that was a lot of words to say nothing. The most actionable insight I have right now is "reread EoD"

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

i think i gave good reasoning. id like to see a reply

From him or from me?

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

@DBP I will definitely be checking your eod again later. I think what will solidify my read on you is if I can find evidence that you were pushing for Ben just to give yourself an easy entrance / free pass through eod. What I've found is when wolves can get away with it, it's a lot easier to get through a day tunneling on someone. It gives the illusion of activity while narrowing their view and allowing the day to be easier because wolves don't have to fabricate as many reads.

When I look at your posts and reply to them later, this is the prism I will be using to judge them

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

From just what I remember I don't like that you seemed to brush off my concerns about how you were interpreting Bens posts but again, I'll have to go back later to read again.

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

leaning what?

just teetering on the fence

From him or from me?

him

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

To better understand bugkid's mindset, picture yourself entering a game where you don't know any of the players.
You'd be able to point a few things out here and there, but it would be difficult to bring on the table good observations until the 2nd or 3rd phase. Bugkid is imo underestimated for reads mid game. I think that's where they shine the most.
The playstyle seems to not take into account the risk of getting voted out early. So, wolves tend to take advantage of that for "not meeting expectations" which would normally associated with how veterans play.

At same time, if bugkid is so "not good enough" at solving then what are we ?
There's some hypocrisy going on here.

It's like we haven't learned to accept that other players can play differently.
Ben is a good example here. It's like he needed to make a plead of not being able to solve due to struggles with identifying wolves or something. I'm not even sure what would have worked here.

It's like every player is a mini game where you need to guess if they're playing their mini game or pretending to rather than playing the same mini game as everyone else.


In a game like this, it's almost like we'd have to sit down together, look at each player and consider this somehow.

on a reread, i saw this from haku
i think wolves may be taking advantage of me for not meetin expectations, but honestly i guess that can be construed as town too because im apparently not solving enough.

im having a hard time so far in this game ill tell you that

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

and frick, not voting d0 has really screwed things for me too

i know it was bad, i do, i should have just voted something. coulda woulda shoulda

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

i will be back at it after work. probably available after 6pm est

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

not caught up
wanted to say that it might be a rough day for me
hopefully eating lunch helps me

I did see DBP question my ben vote
I encourage you to iso me if you want ofc
I would ask you what my motivation is as a wolf to ever move off of botchi and onto ben
I think it is probably the best place someone could look this game to determine that I am town

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

happy to report that I do feel a good bit better after eating and being slightly productive

botchi, yes, meta trumped everything
your opinion that something is off there is at least somewhat right
if you look at my progression, I was absolutely in a pickle about who I can vote

my top 5ish choices were essentially off the table, I don't really remember that happening
in the moment, I was between you and DBP (honestly knowing what I know now, it REALLY fucking sucks I didn't go for DBP)

I was mistaken on my meta read of you, which extra sucks

if you're town, I do think I'm like
one of the few people who engages with you on a level that allows me to read you, where most people just throw up your hands

There's a lot I want to do today, but I'll ISO you first when I am here and engaging with stuff (I was gonna do Xel first but I'll do you first)

I can't even tell you that your vote is entirely misplaced because
as I stated before
the vibes probably should be off with my push of you

My top priority was to try to find something, anything, that can save both ben and star

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I feel compelled to say like
I don't think I am that good at reading Freezin but like

his list is basically exactly my list, with haku lower and xel higher (and with zenith actually included)

I don't think I've been too overt with where I stand, maybe I have but like

idk
that might be the most I've ever been on the same page with someone, ever

I also wonder how much deviation there is in that from star/haku/shado
like are we all just on the same pages??

I mean if we're just the GOAT village after killing ben because fuck him, then we're the GOAT village
it just doesn't feel like that's the whole game

I guess that's a problem for future sunfan

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

The most reliable policy for detecting liars is to compare their words vs. their actions. This is what led me to Ben in the first place. Then, it was the scattershot of reads and potentialities that felt like giving himself cover in case he needed to pivot. I didn't have a baseline for Ben, so I wasn't able to compare his behaviors to a "town Ben".

I'll admit I didn't read much into the Nagito comment, I don't think I even parsed what he was trying to communicate there.

I was wrong and I must own that, but I hope at the very least people understand the rationale behind my thinking.

I must admit that I am suspicious of Sunfan's vote switch last EoD. On the face of it, voting for someone you "know" is town is baffling from a town PoV. I believe he's addressed it today--- something about phoneposting and wanting to prevent a CFD on another player because he didn't have a votecount. But doing that while also saying "you guys are wrong about this" feels like an attempt at distancing. (It literally is distancing--- that could be NAI here though. The "I told you so" attitude could be towny, or it could be "having my cake and eating it too." The latter scenario requires us to look at who he might be defending)

Most everything else he's done this game, given that Ben is town, feels towny. I will have to ISO him to resolve this contradiction.

From memory, Sunfan is categorically against bussing, or at least lynching teammates as a distancing strategy.

-------------------------

I have to head to work and won't have internet access until I'm back. I will try to leave early today and make up for my poor performance so far. One thing I would suggest checking out is the wagonomics of last phase and trying to get a sense of "were any wolves actually in danger during EoD?"

Hi, this comes off really formal and stilted, are you like ok?
I get that you wanted to give something before you are back, but ultimately, if there is a town you there to find, I need you to have actually read to find it.

here guys, this is where im at right now:
star: town (universally townread at this point i think), yall could consider this a copout beacuse so many other people are reading town. usually i do not like to have to read long drawn out posts, but the way these are written, the logic is easy to follow, and i find myself agreeing more than disagree, which could be a product of just how this game is going postwise/ activity wise

haku: is def town lean, i very much like the way haku is playing right now (i know you have your vote on me right now, im trying to do right by you), its like i can look right into his brain, his play has been honest to me

freezin: ur at null, edge on town. freezin sheepnig d0 on sunfan rubbed me the wrong way. id like to expand on this soon

shado: null, ver close to leaning, im sorry i havent got back to you about the vote nonsense, i will make that clear today, if it turns out, that once again im mistaken, i well read it out regardless, jsut like before

zenith: null, about to lean, going to go back through posts, i dont think there is a whole lot, but i really dont see zenith pushing either way

xel: once again i need to look through them, but at this time, another null, not even sure about leaning

bugkid: null no lean, need to read through again

hate: null no lean, need to read through again

dbp: null leaning wolf, i def need to reread , lean wolf because of interesting end of d0 and start of d1, so reactive (reactive is wolfy, proactive is town in this case)

sunfan: wolf lean, i kinda think you are in the middle for a lot of people, i could be wrong, i mean i appreciate you backpedaling on your read of me to take more into account, but would you normally do this? and that wagon at d0, felt very much like you were diverting from ben(understadable cuz of ur townread) just to save his skin(which u were) but why me? why not dbp or hate or xel, about the same level of activity? you said it was because of a meta read. so my meta read trumped anything else???

Uhhh... ok. Some paragraphs for you (I'm sorry.)

So I've been trying to ask you since yesterday, to please go back and read to give me more sauce. So if you are going to make time for it now, that is good.

You said that raeko's and ben's flips would be some of the most helpful to you yesterday. This is my second time asking you specifically, what did ben's flip give you? Because I am having trouble seeing a progression there at all really.

The thing is, we know Ben is town. You seem to have me listed as your top town (although you sound like you have more conviction in your Haku read.) So if you assume I am town, and if you are operating from yourself being town, then basically no wolves had a real wagon on them yesterday. That matters because then it means that wolves do not have too much of a stake in any of the votes, other than they do not want to contradict themselves. If you operate from that standpoint, then you can try to look around at who behind the surface is actually content with the status quo, and who seemed like they don't know who is which alignment. In my mind, sun fan was actually very invested in how the end of the day was going and invested in discussing other possibilities.

However, despite that logic, you seem to be attaching a lot of importance to whether people voted you specifically yesterday (with Freezin and with sun fan.) I am wondering if this is strategic because of you being essentially afraid to make enemies of people who are not already against you, because you do not want to be voted off. It is not necessarily only a wolf role PM that can make you survivalist in that way, and I don't even know if that is your actual motivation for it, but if you are actually town and it is preventing you from being able to critically analyse anybody, then it is a problem.

You being such a question mark and not really giving much in terms of how the flips have helped you make sense of anything, makes the game harder for us in terms of analysing the day end, because if you are a wolf (or I am a wolf), then some of the prior logic is different.

Is there something I can do to help you?

Like I could try to explain my sun fan read to you more to be honest, but I actually do not really want to stop you from going and looking into the people that you want to look into, that is more important really.

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I've spoiled because this post is fairly long. It's not a "thoughts on every post" and some reads adjust without specific mention.

--33--
621 is an ok post
- "I think it was unlikely that ben would avoid being at least somewhat solidly scumread in the next phase, at minimum. I think star will be heavily scrutinized today, and her alignment more positively determined."
I know we like, are reading star so differently here, is there a specific like, mannerism you can direct my deer in the headlighted ass to because I am MISSING SOMETHING ya'll see and I don't
because I spent all of D0 have star as the unspoken ride or die (if me defend posting wasn't the indicator of this- I dunno what to tell you.)
Like what did I miss
625 is fine
626 why so paranoid
629 feels like a carbonated drink going down a little wrong
634 i'm bit jarred still on the star hate this game, so this post is a negative for me (has hindsight of other current day posts, do account for this.)
--34--
650 this post super bothers me still, because I cannot in history of games i've been in / skimmed I've seen dbp be this sad drunk posting. It's like world's most obvious bait to jump him for steering / making the main case.
651 This post is super dense in PRODUCTIVE town posting.
653 The contribution i'd make to this push is that dbp has gone from "charismatic bravado" to pouting drunk. The contrast to the actions / results doesn't steer anywhere and feels like a barrier against a harder push.
656 I was with you till the last sentence, but that'd be more semantical than a point of argument.
660 I do not like this agreement with bugkid here but i'll revist if need be later.

- Wanna state the only solid town lean here for me today is star, and haku has some points, but hasn't hit threshhold quite yet. Sunfan is a little above null but barely enough to note. dbp stonks are inversed gas prices rn.

-- 35 --
667 / 668 I find myself in agreement here, though, not for the bottom part of haku's post, and more similar to freezin's.
676 I wanna touch on this later~
685 I like this post a little less? It has me in the first half, loses me in the second because the implications of the kill are important, on par with the "why" because frankly let's be real
that kill is so notable, that enough people are surprised by it
what that tells me is some degree of these:
- she was killed for where she was looking around
- she was killed for her steering of town being a problem
- the information taken by taking her out is valuable to the scum team
- framing I guess, i'm the wrong person to toss this out, but let's just be fair here
- the nature of the kill ununites the town

If I throw my speculation to the void it's 3 and 5. I couldn't explain 5, but I feel we're sort of there.
687 I assign no value to this post, and I don't think other people should either.
694 I disagree but w.e.

- Star still leaned town
- sunfan stonks down a little
- zenith is... null but can trend a solid 90 degrees down easily
- bugkid is null, could go either way, i am torn on wanting to iso them / amlazy
- Haku maintains current read

--36--
716 this vote push is solid regardless of my feels either way
--37--
719 your whole post is kind of a circle jerk and I hate you for it
--38--
724 It's hard to explain the Zenith pushes other than
ya'll feel like you're creating a nothing burger because the concept in his post is fine
727 stonks down
730 YOU ACTUALLY CARE. YOU JUST ASKED ABOUT IT, THE EXPLANATION IS IN HIS POST AND IN THE ORIGINAL FUCK UP POST
DO YOU NOT READ
DOOOOOOO YOUUUUUUUUU
735
- I agree with the framejob point only as the overarching premise for the kill, and not that it doesn't contribute (I feel you meant this but I'm gonna point it out.)
- : l
- the rest of this post is fair
740 I take issue with your framing of me because I know for a fact by now you know I literally made a post defending you
you can't say I was too pansy to vote you / do my own thing, I literally was saying with defending you (and later in my ben vote) I felt you were town AT THE VERY LEAST IF YOU ARE HARD OF READING ABILITY town enough to not be on my see gone list
and it's worse when you account for just how many people wanted to see you go for a while
this is your first negative post to me, and it feels gross because it's actually about me
BUT THE REST IS SOLID so am conflicted

- Star stonk down slightly (town still.)
- sunfan stonk is holding (null trending town.)
- haku stonk holds (null trending town, harder to change because of Haku mentioning they'll be fairly afk.)
- dbp stonk holds (scum leaning)

--38--
745 (btw thanks for grabbing the vote counts)
Of the 5 votes theres a few things I should glean into skimming through how dbp enters the ben wagon, and how shado joins it, I need to reaquint myself with it, and hatred deserves a mention but frankly I've got zero idea how to read intot hat so I'd rather focus on where I camn MAYBE provide value. (homework for tomorrow.)
sunfan's original response is enough to not make me feel going there is productive, but i'd entertain it if his posts trend downwards
757 the noncommital hewre is noteworthy if what I said above happens, more a note for myself than anything
760 my contribution to this statement is I guess, if you see some of my comments above and it changes anything for you let me know? I see what you're saying though, I wanna just town and move on but I feel like it's a disservice to the issues caused by last eod to do so, even if the explanation is fine / makes sense.

--39--
769
- I don't quite like the (what feels to me) grace read on freezin, I agree he's not been scummy but the needle is like, twitch but not moving, and based off your other content, it feels a bit weak here
- gregglepoo read is fair
- haku read is fine
- I don't quite mesh with bugkid yet, can be convinced though (will be skimming later, I don't see solving their slot as priority though. I am admittedly hung-up a bit on yesterday, so do grain of salt bias assume here.)
- dbp i want to see how this read progresses tomorrow so I've got no comment

I kind of sit in this state by this point:

(Higher = More town. Below line = Null.)

star-crossed
the sun fan
Hakulyte
FreezinIce (Am very open to bumping up higher, would consider above sunfan)
bugkid666
_Zenith_ (You could almost interchange Bug and Zenith RN for me, but bug sits higher for sheer content reasons, and it would require an iso to adjust more.)
DaBackpack
-----
ShadoWolfe
botchi246
Hateandhatred

I've left myself out for obvious reasons, but in the interest of contributing more:

If I pushed at myself for a moment though:
- It's worth thinking on if the Raeko kill is motivated by my slot being how it is.
- It's worth critique for the benguin flip being bad, and being one of the early voters it's totally fair.
- I think everyone else would maybe read into my post defending star, but I don't know the utility, but being my biggest contribution other than benguin vote / light? push, it feels worthy of mention.

I think this is the best food for thought I can offer.

- I want to reread shado a bit.
- I need to reread dbp and make a formal push if my read goes what the early points of today inspire me to think about d0 in 20/20 hindsight.

(I also fucked up my page number at some point so it might be wrong past like, 36.)

I'm going to goddamn bed now.

some quick things:

I'm not sure what paranoia you're seeing in #626; I don't think I was paranoid at all there. If anything, I'm declaring that I'm not paranoid. idk. are you quoting the right post # here???

god yeah #629 hit me really weird, like that question from Haku I thought was obvious without him asking, and if anyone else asked me that, I'd probably sus them more.

I'm not sure what you're saying about #653, are you saying that DBP's behavior makes him harder for you to vote?

You call my push on Zenith fine, but when Zenith responds to me, you're like "this push on Zenith feels conjured out of thin air"
which I find doubly objectionable?? I outlined my vote pretty well I might say.

whose stonks are down for #727
you really should be clearer here; we can't know whether you mean bugkid or zenith
and on that subject, I don't get why you single out bugkid here
shado, bugkid, myself and also possibly freezin I'm not going to go check were all confused by zenith's post, maybe even star too. Zenith's explanation was and is objectively confusing, Shado is of the mind that Zenith is just lying still so like
what do you think of that? Bugkid's opinion here is probably the least interesting one to talk about.

same with #760
who do you want to call town here; Shado or myself

I'm not sure I understand the strength behind your townread of star, you seem critical of her and her reads at times but she's been the top town of yours since last phase to the point where u try and mog me about it

I'm not sure I get why you have Shado where you do
I guess it answers my question about #760, but like
why is shado a scumread, is it because everyone else is townier?

other than that, I don't want to seem like I am too critical of this post, I like it.
I like the fact that you group 667/668 together, like that feels like a really cohesive thought that wolves might struggle to try and piece together.

in short, this just kinda feels like a xel town post
I'd like to see more posts in real time than engage with this formatting quite frankly

my 2nd monitor is for happy things, not more werewolf and u made me use it for extra werewolf and I don't like that, stop it

but do keep posting like this, please

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

@shado
idk that sven is coming back in time, I could sit on this for another 90 minutes, I don't really see much point and I want to get onto other things and not forget about this later so

entering today, he was my top scum, and I was WAITING
for him to start doing ANY kind of analysis on the ben flip, since that was his crux of voting for ben (and not voting for botchi)
and obviously he hadn't done that yet.

I fucking hate his 2nd to last post yesterday, like it gave me genuine flashbacks to a game I had died early in where I watched wolves pile votes onto a villager, like it feels the grossest out of all of the ben votes to me

DBP at least has some plausible deniablity, right? Sven has none at all and ESPECIALLY if botchi is a wolf, I think sven looks horrible, which is one of a few worlds that I think the game is like
not JUST feeling like, but REALLY REALLY feeling like at this point.

it feels like all the villagers have come together and been villagery (another potential star prediction??????????? did not realize that before this post) and the wolves haven't
it almost definitely isn't that way, but star is probably right that there's just one supervillain that town will have to catch, and that there's 2 wolves in everyone's "would kill" pile

it really fucking sucks that sven hasn't posted more since yesterday, maybe we will be talking about leetic soon, I would welcome that.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I'm here til I get off work, then I have a 90ish minute commute home around 6pm server time

gonna try to ISO the slots I have mental blanks on and go from there

sunfan your hateandhatred thing would be nice at some point