TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

anyways
what do you think of star's posts specifically today?

I did already say it earlier, they do feel like what I was missing, and two of them have given me the feeling I was missing
but I'm still not all the way there
I should probably just get over it, she's probably town, but it feels not yet like how it used to

her self-meta explanation on how she processed the ben flip feels genuine, idk that I had said that one before now

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

nevermind I guess you answered this earlier. can you elaborate now on what it was that you were "looking for" and how it is different today vs d0?

I ISO'd star and I'm not really sure that I can answer this question beyond "it wasn't there yesterday, and it feels like it is there today"

aside from her predicting the future yesterday, which is kind of like a post today, given that it didn't come true until it came true

I am looking for her posts to blow my socks off, basically. Her posts really are incredible as town, and always are. It is the kind of joy that people get when they listen to their favorite musician.

This new album wasn't really doing so much for me, but today, it began to

the way she chided DBP for not evaluating how townie Ben was for saying that I felt like Nagito to him (sorry, I had to) in particular gave me that feeling of "damn, that's so true, why didn't I consider that" and that's one of the ways that a really good star post makes me feel

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

my brain is becoming more mushy about this game
I think I'll take a break from looking at stuff

I'll be back later tonight

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Reads post ish.

I feel very good about FreezinIce being town. This is partly post volume, this is partly that he is just casually and unapologetically here all the time, this is my read on his interactions surrounding Ben, this is partly from the whiplash of sun fan being his top town at almost end of day to being who he would shoot at the start of the day to being his top town again - I don't think that that's how that progression would come out if he was a wolf.

I don't think sun fan is a wolf. The complexity of the kaleidoscopic narratives that he would be managing to put into this is so much harder to fake in my opinion, then what nearly everybody else in this game is doing in comparison right now. If sun fan is a wolf, then in my opinion how I would find him as one would begin by making his partners make mistakes. Currently, I just don't see it, and I don't really see the point in going down the rabbit hole when so many people other people desperately need pressure and to be pressuring.

Hakulyte - town lean carried forward from D0, see link for Haku highlight reel fmpov. We tend to be in the thread at the same times and Haku really intellectually engages with basically everything I bring up, and so I think there's a small chance I'm biased by that and by us in my opinion having similar approaches to the game. https://www.flashflashrevolution.com...&postcount=339

bugkid666 - I am fairly?? ok with bugkid right now having looked at their posts quite thoroughly? There are some minor things that niggle me but there are other things I do like e.g. reaction to Zenith recently, the simplicity of saying they hate DBP's re-entry. I actually think how yesterday played out at the end maybe makes more sense if bug wagon was also town.

DaBackpack - Is my top sus, thunderdome initiated, tried to get it out there ASAP as time zones are an issue and I have penciled in fucking up my sleep schedule for upcoming the end of tomorrow to try to get this resolved.

My mystery/fairly null pool is ShadoWolfe,_Zenith_, botchi246, XelNya, Hateandhatred. Last two in this pool barely exist to the point that you kind of have to solve around them which is sad, because if either or both of you are town and there's anyone being widely townread that's a wolf, it's going to make things very dicey in the long-term.

I miiiight have time for one iso before I go to bed but if not I'll just start with it in the morning before work, because I think there's a couple of open questions for me to.

[bugkid666]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

i'm caught up reading and don't think i have anything else to respond to presently so i'm probably going to nap for a few hours then be back later.

i think i generally agree with star's reads list but would put zenith at slight more wolfy than null. and hateandhatred the opposite, more town than otherwise.

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

star did u answer my short thing about why you thought raeko was the likeliest nightkill and I'm missing it or forgetting it

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

yes please about raeko before you leave please.

I will respond to your DBP question in a sec, I'm just posting between stuff at work

Raeko to me seemed like somebody who was one of the most unlikely to be hanged this game despite a couple of people saying that she would be informative to flip. This is all off the top of my head but

- sun fan was reading raeko town and he is particularly vocal about protecting people
- Zenith had raeko top town
- Ben was townreading raeko
- DaBackpack gave a townread on raeko at end of day
- when Shado was questioning raeko at end of day, I think Haku piped in to say Haku sussed Shado more than raeko and kind of tried to get Shado to back off
- I gave a townread on raeko before I left
- Freezin and raeko typically read each other well and so at least if you are somebody who plays frequently, you kind of expect them to work together unless otherwise stated
- Xel accidentally connected ben and raeko and then was super apologetic about the error in a way that would suggest he is less likely to go against raeko willy nilly anyways
- bugkid didn't give a read on raeko iirc but they were voting together

From a social dynamics perspective, raeko came across to me as somebody who could be in a spot to be part of a town-driven wagon. If you for example assume Zenith and sun fan is TvT, if you kill raeko it is less likely they can reconcile I think. If you assume Zenith is a W in that then I'm less sure what you want to do there.

I also think it's a nice bonus for wolves when they can kill somebody right before they are fully on the right track in their reads.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

The Votecount
DaBackpack (2) - star-crossed, Hakulyte
_Zenith_ (2) - the sun fan, ShadoWolfe
ShadoWolfe (1) - FreezinIce
Hakulyte (1) - _Zenith_

Not voting - DaBackpack, bugkid666, Hateandhatred, botchi246, XelNya

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Raeko to me seemed like somebody who was one of the most unlikely to be hanged this game despite a couple of people saying that she would be informative to flip. This is all off the top of my head but

- sun fan was reading raeko town and he is particularly vocal about protecting people
- Zenith had raeko top town
- Ben was townreading raeko
- DaBackpack gave a townread on raeko at end of day
- when Shado was questioning raeko at end of day, I think Haku piped in to say Haku sussed Shado more than raeko and kind of tried to get Shado to back off
- I gave a townread on raeko before I left
- Freezin and raeko typically read each other well and so at least if you are somebody who plays frequently, you kind of expect them to work together unless otherwise stated
- Xel accidentally connected ben and raeko and then was super apologetic about the error in a way that would suggest he is less likely to go against raeko willy nilly anyways
- bugkid didn't give a read on raeko iirc but they were voting together

From a social dynamics perspective, raeko came across to me as somebody who could be in a spot to be part of a town-driven wagon. If you for example assume Zenith and sun fan is TvT, if you kill raeko it is less likely they can reconcile I think. If you assume Zenith is a W in that then I'm less sure what you want to do there.

I also think it's a nice bonus for wolves when they can kill somebody right before they are fully on the right track in their reads.

thx

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Anyways.

I value ben's posts, his friendship, and it genuinely made me very sad to see his last post. I even think it might be targeted towards me specifically given he used the word "despair" but I won't know until the end of the game.

I value star's posts etc a lot. Star is, historically, one of the very few people whose opinions on the game I have sometimes relied upon above my own. I don't want to glaze too much here, but I think Star is a good player, and I hope ben understands that when I say that star is a better player than ben, it is not a slight against him. I think town!star is a better player than town!sunfan.

The one game I have played with star where Jupiter was in retrograde and the moon cycle was in the exact right spot and the Etsy witch I paid $40 to make her roll wolf actually all combined into her rolling wolf, she was unable to keep up her normal gameplay. She was forced into claiming a role (yes I know she can't do that here), which resulted in her being counterclaimed, and town killed her that d0.

The vibes WERE and ARE off with star to me, still. I have faith that, given I had heat, I was likely to survive the nightphase (I do not take this line if I am more townread). I figured I would be here tomorrow explaining exactly this to you. If star is a wolf, I will help catch her, that is my pledge. If she is town, we are getting on the same page this phase. That is my ultimatum to her and to town.

Star WAS a bad kill yesterday for those reasons. She was not present at EOD, an obstacle that we may perhaps see again, but if she is town, we will get there on her, that is my belief and pledge and whatever else.

More people were scumreading ben, I was on mobile which made it both harder to defend him and harder to actually push my counter of botchi (I have since recognized a different top scum, botchi can still be scum kind of without any issue, but still, I'll get to that in another post)

I voted ben to stop star from dying and to progress the game. I think it was unlikely that ben would avoid being at least somewhat solidly scumread in the next phase, at minimum. I think star will be heavily scrutinized today, and her alignment more positively determined.

-----------------------------------------------------

I deeply regret staying on star for as long as I did. I really didn't think about it at the time, but I needed to really make a more solid push after getting off of her. It didn't burn down Hollywood, but it killed Ben instead, I think that's part of how that domino effect occurred. Maybe Ben was fated to die anyways, it is a what if.

To sun fan, in light of your radical honesty here,

I guess I've been in the community for a long time now really, but I spent a long time being, you know, a newcomer, trying to wrap my head around the lingo and the meta reads and all. It's hard to put into words what it feels like to read that my mentor, the person who I spent all those games building my world views from theirs, say they think I'm better than them at town.

I have slightly different strengths than you, I think. I at least think of myself as stylistically adjacent to Haku, where I don't necessarily have the charisma and composure to lead, but I will always drive information and I will always drive re-evaluation. I will always try to say how I got to where I got, because I want people to engage with it and tell me how I'm wrong, that's how we get better. People probably trust me more than you too because I've never burned them for it, and that decreases the pool of wolves for them. I believe I get killed at night so often because I am hard to vote off and because I help town play more cohesively, because I bring out strengths in others, more than I get killed for necessarily being right. It does feel good every once in a while when I'm very right, but yeah.

It's from our dynamic really that I felt so strongly about Ben too, is that I felt Ben would have to be actually playing out of his fucking mind to come back rusty and post like he was as a wolf with certain emotional nuances he was hitting, and you actually know him really well and were getting to the same spot but based on different posts. He engaged with my manifesto in a way that was real to me. Even if you were a wolf, you believed your town read on him. That's how I saw it.

It's not very often I actually get to be a counterwagon. One of the last times, it was your fault, I believe. It makes it a little more emotional when one of your top town reads gets voted off over you. It's my turn, really, to be the one mislynched. I said it before, but I think potentially multiple wolves saw him as more low hanging fruit, an easier place to justify having had their vote. I am forever on a revenge tour, I want to make the wolf team suffer as much as I do trying to find them. I want them to regret having the audacity to leave me alive with this combination of people.

You wanted to know how I saw the future? I said it before, but I thought the game was starting Friday morning my time and not Saturday. I had Friday off, got my latest town role PM. I had felt that I might be ready for another wolf rand this time, as scary as this playerlist is, because I do want another chance someday at it, to see if I can be part of making a beautiful puzzle for you all to stress over the way you all have done for me all these years. So I was a little disappointed.

I was supposed to be writing an essay in relation to the qualification I'm doing, and I did write most of it that day, but I also ended up writing a WAY longer version of the manifesto than what I actually posted in the thread, like three times as long, because I was kind of trying to work through in my head what it means to be town in a setup without blues, because I have never done it before. My fear was basically was that town would fall into despair over feeling like they have nothing going for them, and not really get engaged with the game, and if we don't want it as much as the wolves do, we lose the information war and it's a crapshoot. So it was an interesting thought experiment for me, and something I was excited to be able to use as an icebreaker for d0 because I truly think the sooner we get to genuine game-related discussion, the better.

I would argue that I would have been thinking about completely different things, had I finally rolled wolf for the first time in several years. As you note in this post, I am unfortunately the most polarised player in this community. Voted off unceremoniously D0 as an outted wolf D0 spamming gold stinger cop gifs, never been voted off as a town player. It's not that I just like didn't put the time in or that I made one big slip or anything in Kiss and Kill. It was actually that I was super hungover and not feeling well, and I decided to force a bunch of posts hoping to seem off the cuff and power through it because that's what I assume I would've done if I rolled town. But then, because I was nervous and not at my best, I got a ton of negative attention for the uncanny valley of my posting. I had limited practice at defending myself from previous games because typically that's not an issue for me. So then I got shot, voted off, and doomed my very competent and wonderful wolf partner from what could have been probably an easy win if she'd rolled wolf with almost anyone else. Anyway, I imagine I might've spent Friday planning about how I might be able to correct my past mistakes, ease myself in and mimic my townplay without putting myself in a position to be likely to get negative attention and crumble from it.

Sorry, did I ever actually answer how I saw the future? Well, partly it's just statistics. 25% of the players D0 are wolves in this, and so because we don't talk about literally every player all the time, we are going to run into times where people are just talking about the wrong things because there's too many possibilities. I genuinely think it can come across to wolves like it's happening because because they're playing well, and it doesn't hurt if they are. But mostly it's just math, the game would be boring if we could overcome that math so easily.

Partly it's that history repeats itself. Lying is a cognitive load and it's a burden over these long phases. I think wolves tend to distance and give townreads on town more often than people assume because of it, because they are biased by the answers they already have. When they try to emulate their town game, they don't emulate all their flaws. A couple of people said that bit was fluffy. To me, it's a fundamental truth about the game that I think could be important in how this one plays out too.

xoxo, star-crossed

[bugkid666]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

dabackpack for pressure hopefully. the longer i sit with today's posts, the more i trust dbp's wagon so i feel confident with my vote going here

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

test (forum went down for a little bit for those wondering)

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

ok good
I am very glad that I had only just read star's post, and not attempted to respond to it, when FFR forums went down

[roundbox]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

The Votecount
DaBackpack (3) - star-crossed, Hakulyte, bugkid666
_Zenith_ (2) - the sun fan, ShadoWolfe
ShadoWolfe (1) - FreezinIce
Hakulyte (1) - _Zenith_

Not voting - DaBackpack, Hateandhatred, botchi246, XelNya

[bugkid666]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

ok good
I am very glad that I had only just read star's post, and not attempted to respond to it, when FFR forums went down

that makes sense why my shit wasnt loading lol