TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Did I miss you answering my question yet on how DaBackpack made it into your 3 off the table?

Also, since multiple people have brought up that they didn't expect the raeko kill, I thought raeko was the most likely person to die. I guess let me know if my reasoning would be helpful, otherwise I am going to do other shit.

in the interest of your time since you said you were busier these days
give yourself a time limit of 5 minutes max, but explain why you thought she was the most likely person to die

also how the fuck did you predict last phase I have to know idc if town even wins this game I have to know how you did that

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

this is hilarious now that i'm reading his crash out

zenith nobody gives a shit that you made an oopsie, we all know slip theory isn't real (right?)

what i think people are getting at is that your explanation didn't provide any clarity. i think people genuinely didn't understand what you were trying to say. i know i was confused initially--that you had first made a bizarre error and then your first explanation made me think you said "pr" when you meant a different term entirely. now you're saying that you just had a complete lapse and forgot there werent prs at all. this is all fine, but don't freak out over people having genuine confusion when your explanations aren't clarifying at all.

If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.
-bugkid666, The Art of War

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

yo sunfan, you said you had something to discuss with me. i see you are here. come on let it rip

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

yo sunfan, you said you had something to discuss with me. i see you are here. come on let it rip

uhhhhh
yeah!
I definitely remember what it was!
(can u show me the post, sorry)

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

Uhhh...I was going to put this in a spoiler tag because I thought I was going to go down a self meta rabbit hole but I think I am going to talk about that in a bit and just post this.

So normally I would just look at the flip first if I am not around for it, but I was actually wondering if I should read through in order so I would maybe have a better idea of how it felt to actually be there. But then to be honest curiosity killed the cat because there was some chance I was voted off in which case what is the point. I was honestly very freaked out when I even saw Ben's name in the flip post, and then I'm like...is he somehow a wolf? Ok no? What the hell happened, because Xel was the only person even sussing him when I left?

So then as I'm finding out what the hell happened, both DaBackpack and Shado coming in trying to pressure basically all people I think have passed d0 is apparent. Shado has me top town but thinks my reads are ass backwards I guess, but is coming around by the end. DaBackpack I have already gone into for the most part. bugkid posts are at least ok. H&H and Xel are both disappointing, townread me, so fine to kill ben for "info." botchi in commentator mode? and Zenith maybe in a paranoid spiral? DBP I am sus of because I think because I think him kind of being against you could be agenda-driven; if he is town then I think he essentially misplayed by being AGAINST everyone who was actually around to know what the fuck was going on and just tunneling into that with limited info.

I guess in my head:
- Ben wagon is filthy AF
- My brain currently likes this narrative of one supervillain wolf because I am townreading most of the people I know well (I am most sus of DBP rn but if I'm wrong there then Shado maybe??) and then decent chance of one in Xel/H&H of disappointing wolf who is too pansy to vote for me and too pansy to do their own thing if it's H&H, and then that leaves the last one as someone off wagon or somebody I am wrong on in my town reads.
- Given the setup, I actually could see wolves trying to do super weird things with votes that make the game harder to solve so I don't really want to over-rely on vote logic assumptions but I guess I'll worry about that later and/or when we have more PoE. (with that being the case, why am I more focused on votes than I normally would be? maybe because it's a big game??)

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Zenith did say that he was going to be sus of anyone following me at EOD, so I checked his ISO for any mention of Freezin following me last EOD that he said today, but there isn't one yet, and he has pledged to do at least two more ISOs first

I don't really hold it against him, I probably should've sat on this longer and just tried to potentially ambush him later with it

but that would've made me feel better about his claimed reason for saying that last EOD

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

@star
my take on backpack was kind of the opposite of yours, and it stems from an old history, so bear with me. town!DBP has had, for better or worse, a meta reputation about being "detective backpack" form and that's affected his games as town in a couple of ways that I remember. the first is that when there's too much pressure on him to become his alter ego and overperform in ways that I think are frankly unrealistic a lot of the time, he retreats and does the opposite, but if people just shut up and let the man cook, he can come up with some very solid analyses. I was wary of sunfan making post telling DBP to "do something townie" for that reason, but figured it'd be ok as long as nobody piled on. the second, and more relevant, is that the alter ego gets to his head in some ways and makes him more confident with sharing moonshot theories and big brain 4d chess analyses than most players would be comfortable doing

so I liked it when he came in hot with a moonshot mic drop / wet fart and then started ish with sunfan and began to dig a bit deeper and flesh out thoughts past just the wet fart, it felt genuine and good. what you'll hate to hear is that one of the things that helped bring me to that conclusion was his 100% confident defense of bugkid. his saying that they were basically always town here was a starting point that I felt town!DBP would naturally start from and then work his way up to the larger world he built. it wasn't enough to say he was 100% town, but it was enough to take him off the table for me for the phase.

interestingly, after I made my post about not voting for him, he rescinded his moonshot and I liked that even more because it seemed like he was genuinely forming thoughts as he read along and dove in

with all of that said, I feel like a lot of what I felt yesterday (about everyone, not just DBP) when I wrote my "hot take" post have been overwritten since. even while writing this, I remembered that DBPs wolf capability changed drastically from the "he goes MIA phones it in from all the way UTR" he had for most of my time playing on this site and now I feel like I should stick to my "reset" a lot harder, but it's difficult

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

-----------------------------------------------------

I played that EOD on mobile, which lets me respond less quickly, and without seeing new posts as quickly etc etc. I assume yáll have phones. I play essentially no EODs on mobile, I don't recall the last time I did.

I want it clear, firstly, that I blame roundbox 0% for this. It is our responsibility as the players to be aware of the votecounts etc. I was not really doing that at the time. I saw post #596 had a votecount that was inaccurate in real time. The inaccuracy is actually still there, actually.

I did not realize what the inaccuracy was in real time, I just saw 5 names there, but that roundbox had only written a (4) next to ben's name. In hindsight, I see that Freezin's vote should have been on botchi, I just could not tell it at that time.

I voted ben to reduce the chance of shenanigans where star dies, which I probably could've identified as being low %, but still. I didn't know what the actual votecount was, I felt like not enough people were following me on botchi, and I voted ben instead of letting the possibility of a different kill go through.

I stand by this decision, even though it might look ridiculous in hindsight. I did not know what the true votecount was and I reduced the chaos as best I could.

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For why I voted ben over star

As many of you know, I have played a good amount of video mafia. I have some very memorable games, and I won't bore you with the exact complexities of the two games I was remembering, but essentially, they are games where, due to the nature of how lynches happen in video mafia, I was essentially forced into voting someone who I was very, very sure was town, just to progress the game. For the record, one of the two ended with me being wrong, one ended with me being right.

Let me again waste a few words by saying that Ben is a friend of mine. I like spending time with him, he is someone I have known for even longer than I have known my husband, I was very happy to see him play this game, even happier to see him put in effort. I cannot possibly put into words how fucking awful it felt to vote him yesterday, given all of that and given he was my top townread.

I told DBP, and still stand by this comment even though it may look like I go back on it in a moment, I understand at least some of the reason why people did not like Ben's posts. His posts were more flow-y than anything, and at least one of the "contradictions"""""""""" at least seems reasonable to me to be interpreted as a contradiction.

I genuinely think that if you truly care about that kind of thing instead of actually looking deeper at his posts, at his subtleties, at the three things I saw yesterday, you're looking in the wrong place. We know Ben was town, but I knew it yesterday, and it is because I am essentially never wrong about this kind of thing, and I don't care if someone thinks I am scummy for being that sure about a read on d0 on such subtle things.

Anyways.

I value ben's posts, his friendship, and it genuinely made me very sad to see his last post. I even think it might be targeted towards me specifically given he used the word "despair" but I won't know until the end of the game.

I value star's posts etc a lot. Star is, historically, one of the very few people whose opinions on the game I have sometimes relied upon above my own. I don't want to glaze too much here, but I think Star is a good player, and I hope ben understands that when I say that star is a better player than ben, it is not a slight against him. I think town!star is a better player than town!sunfan.

The one game I have played with star where Jupiter was in retrograde and the moon cycle was in the exact right spot and the Etsy witch I paid $40 to make her roll wolf actually all combined into her rolling wolf, she was unable to keep up her normal gameplay. She was forced into claiming a role (yes I know she can't do that here), which resulted in her being counterclaimed, and town killed her that d0.

The vibes WERE and ARE off with star to me, still. I have faith that, given I had heat, I was likely to survive the nightphase (I do not take this line if I am more townread). I figured I would be here tomorrow explaining exactly this to you. If star is a wolf, I will help catch her, that is my pledge. If she is town, we are getting on the same page this phase. That is my ultimatum to her and to town.

Star WAS a bad kill yesterday for those reasons. She was not present at EOD, an obstacle that we may perhaps see again, but if she is town, we will get there on her, that is my belief and pledge and whatever else.

More people were scumreading ben, I was on mobile which made it both harder to defend him and harder to actually push my counter of botchi (I have since recognized a different top scum, botchi can still be scum kind of without any issue, but still, I'll get to that in another post)

I voted ben to stop star from dying and to progress the game. I think it was unlikely that ben would avoid being at least somewhat solidly scumread in the next phase, at minimum. I think star will be heavily scrutinized today, and her alignment more positively determined.

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I deeply regret staying on star for as long as I did. I really didn't think about it at the time, but I needed to really make a more solid push after getting off of her. It didn't burn down Hollywood, but it killed Ben instead, I think that's part of how that domino effect occurred. Maybe Ben was fated to die anyways, it is a what if.

I am appreciative of Freezin's vote on botchi, even regardless of potential pocketing or whatever, it was good to have at least one person believe in my townread on ben (or pretend to)

-----------------------------------------------------

@botchi
we need to talk, not about anything that you might expect
you did not vote yesterday
this is bad

I won't lecture you, I know you know that this is bad, even if you aren't sure

essentially, none of your words had any weight yesterday

come this phase, you (and everyone else), needs to vote, because that is how town kills wolves, and that is how the wolves blend in with town

here

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

fwiw star
if you're town, given bug is a townread of mine rn, I think that wolves absolutely were too afraid to try and kill you yesterday

I genuinely don't know what your wolf partners might do in that scenario last EOD given they essentially know you aren't coming back

I'd *hope* that they would vote ben or do anything else, but FFR tends to try to distance, so

idk this is too much conjecture to hold any real weight, but I would GUESS that your wolf partners might try harder to distance with you

also, I think you're right, I think ben's wagon is more likely to be filthy as a result

I'm voting zenith right now, but if I am wrong there, like

it could actually be 3 wolves on the ben wagon if botchi and zenith are town

it probably isn't, but like

yeah
it could be

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

The Votecount
star-crossed (3) - the sun fan, benguino, bugkid666
benguino (1) - DaBackpack
the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
XelNya (1) - mellon_collie
FreezinIce (1) - ShadoWolfe

Unvote - FreezinIce
Not voting - Hateandhatred, botchi246, XelNya

The Votecount

star-crossed (2) - benguino, bugkid666
benguino (2) - DaBackpack, XelNya

the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
botchi246 (1) - the sun fan
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
XelNya (1) - mellon_collie
FreezinIce (1) - ShadoWolfe

Unvote - FreezinIce
Not voting - Hateandhatred, botchi246

The Votecount

star-crossed (3) - benguino, bugkid666, mellon_collie
benguino (3) - DaBackpack, XelNya, FreezinIce

the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
botchi246 (1) - the sun fan
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
FreezinIce (1) - ShadoWolfe

Not voting - Hateandhatred, botchi246

The Votecount

benguino (4) - DaBackpack, XelNya, FreezinIce, ShadoWolfe

star-crossed (3) - benguino, bugkid666, mellon_collie
DaBackpack (2) - Hakulyte, the sun fan
the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed

Not voting - Hateandhatred, botchi246

The Votecount

benguino (4) - DaBackpack, XelNya, FreezinIce, ShadoWolfe, Hateandhatred

botchi246 (3) - the sun fan, benguino, FreezinIce
star-crossed (2) - bugkid666, mellon_collie
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed

Not voting - botchi246

The Votecount

benguino (5) - DaBackpack, XelNya, ShadoWolfe, Hateandhatred, the sun fan

botchi246 (2) - benguino, FreezinIce
star-crossed (2) - bugkid666, mellon_collie
DaBackpack (1) - Hakulyte
the sun fan (1) - _Zenith_
bugkid666 (1) - star-crossed

Not voting - botchi246

Please let me know within 5 minutes if there are any inaccuracies (via Discord)

for general reference but also for botchi because I can't follow his thoughts

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

here

oh

I mean
the rest of the post already was the talk

I was telling you you need to vote this phase (and in future phases)
you've already said you'll do so, and you explained your lack of a vote last phase, too

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

god I'm so annoyed if wolves were active at eod and voted ben instead of star if star is also town

just vote star!!! kill the known very good townie during the day!!! it won't just immediately boomerang back onto you!!! stop being cowards!!! (ok I promise I won't mention this again)

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

shado I forgot you asked but idk that a nagito character analysis will help much
he is initially a sidekick of the protagonist of the 2nd game, but it devolves and evolves from there

he could best be summarized as a helpful sidekick who is also a hope-monger (as in, the opposite of a fearmonger)

I like him a lot even though he's kind of objectively a terrible person

there's probably too much to really encapsulate all of what would have to be said here, but I'll at least try to tone it down personally, not that I think I was overdoing it in the first place

also botchi I'll look back at last game and try to explain what I meant between why I thought you were different then and now

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

shado I forgot you asked but idk that a nagito character analysis will help much
he is initially a sidekick of the protagonist of the 2nd game, but it devolves and evolves from there

he could best be summarized as a helpful sidekick who is also a hope-monger (as in, the opposite of a fearmonger)

I like him a lot even though he's kind of objectively a terrible person

there's probably too much to really encapsulate all of what would have to be said here, but I'll at least try to tone it down personally, not that I think I was overdoing it in the first place

also botchi I'll look back at last game and try to explain what I meant between why I thought you were different then and now

sidenote, i was a lot more stoned during that game. just saying.

[botchi246]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

for general reference but also for botchi because I can't follow his thoughts

i think the more we go back and forth on this, the more im getting confused about the order of events.

lemme just go back to 0 and try this again.