TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

You may think your being helpful and a team player but this is why i always remember u dying early, you dont value staying alive as much as you should.

If your human or wolf you should be playing to your wincon and that almost always involves staying alive and helping your team correctly read you (or obfuscating if your a wolf).

Most people judge wolfiness based on a surivial vector and seeing people fold and not fight pressure or demonstrate an indifference towards dying is generally seen as wolfy.

And despite what you think just dying early and having town fixate on cleaning your wagon for a few days is not a good stratagy, especially since its so easy to lay pressure on you that it could be a clean wagon at the end of the day

This is good advice, but it's also a post I would do as a wolf more than town. I think the town mindset would be to try to understand what's up. You're kind of doing both so, I guess that's sort of fair, but yeah.

Raeko looks very comfy and all I got from her game is that she likes my posts, but nothing helps me understand the narrative of her game. That's kinda worrisome to me. I will probably not get the chance to ask her anything this phase considering I won't be here tomorrow. I'm not sure I'm a fan of that. I think town raeko would have said something she likes or dislike about other players by now, but I guess this depends of what she will say tomorrow before EoD.

T-Force is also in a spot where I'm confident he could have posted 100% of his posts as both alignment. I'm slightly leaning town based on tone alone tho. It's not worth much, but I don't think I would have voted here Day 0.

I might slight town lean Star based on this post:

Putting together some thoughts.

I quite like Lewdy so far, and the fact that I do is helping give me some confidence that we can get somewhere with process of elimination today.

I do not have a strong opinion on raeko so far. She is coming across as more positive/invested than a lot of other d0s, which to some extent makes it harder to do a 1-1 comparison. I probably like her more than people she has implied being sus of. There's a casualness to the leads she's pursuing, that comes across as less likely she already has the answers?

I am voting bugkid right now. bugkid has been openly kind of self-conscious about showing up late. You could argue that this is good or bad. I feel better calling the (potential) bluff at this juncture. There is a timidness to their posts that could indicate being a nervous first time wolf. (Note-they have kind of interrupted this post of mine to show more spirit. I will consider if they deserve my re-evaluation.)

The most town-minded thing storn has said is when he stated he feels he is making content. In my mind, he is mostly saying pseudo philosophical things and giving nonsensical and vaguely contradictory reasons for voting Hateandhatred.

Hateandhatred - Right now I have him as slightly town for the post where he said he is not defending himself, and the one where he responded to T-Force about the Haku questioning. Both these sound genuine in a way that I think they may not if he was a wolf.

I am also pretty neutral so far on FreezinIce, T-Force, Haku. It remains to be seen if Freezin puts his money where his mouth is with trying to be spicy. For instance, I think that saying you are voting somebody to be spicy actually makes it less spicy. I hope we end up in the thread at the same time. It may help me know if you are mild at heart.

This felt relatable. Those posts are probably easy to make as wolves, but I also think this specific post is within the town expectation. I do think this post moves the game forward and is genuine helpful regardless of alignment. I might lean town as in "at least keep alive Day 0" kind of post.

Storn is literally a coin flip. iso ain't helping me. Seems to be having fun being storn, but that's it.


Yeah, I'm also not feeling it with Shadow God this game. Not sure why. I feel like he's not getting into the game as much.

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

From experience this kind of thing rarely follows people, FFR is notorious for not reading early days or remembering key interactions. If you think people who kill you today will be scrutinized i have some unfortunate news for you, they wont be for the same reasons you just stated, its d0 and "accidents" happen.

Who the hell doesn't at least check vote history? It's literally THE main clue of alignment. Voting a wolf into a lynch makes you look good. Voting a town into a lynch makes you look bad. That's like the most basic thing. People may not pay furious attention to early posts like other communities would, but they'll at least look into this much, if they don't they're way worse players than I am, and I don't think I'm particularly good at TWG.

Trying to make something like that stick is almost impossible unless they do absolutely NO prep work to make the kill palpable to town before eod and even then sometimes people can talk their way out of it.

They can talk their way out of any situation, also a fundamental of the game, and again, someone is going to be lynched no matter what, but because of D0, it's extremely difficult to apply an actual reasoning onto who should go or who shouldn't, and "whoever is least defensive about survivability" isn't a good way to determine a target. Knowing that, of course I'm going to try to be strategic about it for the good of my alignment, lol. It's a long shot, granted, but it's what I've got. I wouldn't feel this way if I felt strongly about anything in particular myself, I do what I can and I'm sorry if you doing like it.

You would have more success finding the wolf on your wagon yourself rather than expecting people to do it for you. Thats what im really not liking atm, there is absolutely no urgency in your play. You said it yourself that people need very little reason to kill d0, knowing that you should be treating this situation with a lot more seriousness.

Still virtually a full day left. There isn't any urgency and I'm not about to be insta'd. I am obviously playing the game despite not trying to tell other people to vote off my ass. I understand your criticis, but I believe my approach is in good faith, if only off meta.

When you say your going to wait to see if your still getting pressure later before you address it honestly sounds like a wolf kicking the can down the road due to laziness or wanting to stay utr.

No, it's because if I'm going to be mislynched, I can say whatever I want and it will be known as an absolute genuine town sentiment.

Also, there will likely be more interactions between players, and something else could come up that would actually change my perspective a great deal.

>only be relevant to me
>open a dialog that other people can comment on.

No fuck off, I don't buy it. You could have just said you were lazy, this is terrible.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I'm going to sleep in 2 hours and my vote will not move until EoD.

So, unlike the rest of you, I have to decide where to lock vote.

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

if you don't like it*

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I'm tempted to assume FreezinIce/H&H is a TvT late night headbutt fight.

I think game gets spicier voting storn/shadow god while keeping an eye on whatever T-Force/Raeko will say tomorrow.

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

No fuck off, I don't buy it. You could have just said you were lazy, this is terrible.

I also didnt want to talk about it with you because i didnt feel like i would get anything from you except some weak justifications, which is exactly what i got.

Being town doesnt mean your right. You are worth more alive as a warm body stopping wolves from winning by parity, unless you're going to grab a baseball bat and start pressuring people yourself. Another thing FFR never does is look at the reads of the dead, and even if they did the reads of a human on d1 are probably not even worth the 2 cents you end up sharing.

Im telling you right now if you are actually human here the last thing you should be ok with is the only person you know for sure is a human dying d0.

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I'm tempted to assume FreezinIce/H&H is a TvT late night headbutt fight.

I think game gets spicier voting storn/shadow god while keeping an eye on whatever T-Force/Raeko will say tomorrow.

Is this really TvT? Maybe hes just a wolf here banking on an early wagon getting no traction for a whole day.

I dont feel like im talking to a human here

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

Its like a double bluff where "if i say im ok with dying maybe they won't kill me."

If you are actually a human here you are making it infuriating to properly read you and id almost rather just go against my wincon and have u die just for peace lf mind and to prevent shenanigans

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I probably dont move my vote for the rest of the day, if you have a problem with that i look forward to seeing if your actions are actually defendable.

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I also didnt want to talk about it with you because i didnt feel like i would get anything from you except some weak justifications, which is exactly what i got.

And you didn't address much of it, aside from "why are you suddenly on my case when you said you wouldn't" and "you shouldn't be cool with dying". You did make sure to not address my points at all though.

Being town doesnt mean your right. You are worth more alive as a warm body stopping wolves from winning by parity, unless you're going to grab a baseball bat and start pressuring people yourself. Another thing FFR never does is look at the reads of the dead, and even if they did the reads of a human on d1 are probably not even worth the 2 cents you end up sharing.

1: I have not hesitated to press people myself all game. I pressed bugkid, I pressed Haku, and I'm pressing you now. Literally all I didn't do is start trying to tell people to get their votes off me. And of course I know that, but again, you didn't address what I said about how anyone is -actually- going to prevent a mislynch in a logical manner, and this is certainly not going to happen with everyone not wanting the one person whose alignment they know (themselves) to get lynched. Someone will, and then it'll be that.

2: You don't need to tell me how to play the game, because I don't know your alignment. It's not like I'm going to play YOUR game without knowing that, I'd be the biggest fool ever. Yes I understand you might be saying that with the interest of town in play, but you're also not doing the same thing with what I'm actually saying.

Im telling you right now if you are actually human here the last thing you should be ok with is the only person you know for sure is a human dying d0.

It shouldn't even matter that I am a human. This is even moreso the wolf wincon lol.

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

Is this really TvT? Maybe hes just a wolf here banking on an early wagon getting no traction for a whole day.

I dont feel like im talking to a human here

FreezinIce

No, but I do think you're currently trying to take advantage of this situation from a wolf perspective. Trying to tell me to townie myself is one thing, but this seems less like wolf hunting/town preservation and more like a clean setup into me, especially after your explanation of why my lack of desire for survival does make a me-lynch not look that bad. That what you want out of this?

Besides, again, if you truly doubt this is a TvT interaction, why in hell would have you kept all this to yourself? I called you out on that, you said it was pointless, but now you're saying this might actually be a legit wolf read?

You're incoherent, so here you go

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

Its like a double bluff where "if i say im ok with dying maybe they won't kill me."

If you are actually a human here you are making it infuriating to properly read you and id almost rather just go against my wincon and have u die just for peace lf mind and to prevent shenanigans

I actually meant to also copy this but whatever.

But yeah, again, first you say you wanna keep your thoughts for yourself. Then you proceed to actually say everything, then you said it was because you didn't expect much of our interaction (but didn't actually address most of my logic and rebuttals) but changed your mind and wanted to hear people's thoughts, but then imply that our reaction isn't really all that townie and double down on leaving your vote on me? If you are town and legit think there is something about me that sounds wolfy, OF COURSE you would want everyone else to know. That's why I said your response was terrible, but now it's WAY worse.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

I think H&H is wrong on the whole experienced game sense stuff, but I think the effort here is genuinely town.

I believe he would have played this better if he was wolfing. It's a lot easier for me to simply assume he was town, but had the wrong idea.

Not everyone thinks like you and me.

[Hateandhatred]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

our interraction* goddammit I can't english tonight

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

And you didn't address much of it, aside from "why are you suddenly on my case when you said you wouldn't" and "you shouldn't be cool with dying". You did make sure to not address my points at all though.



1: I have not hesitated to press people myself all game. I pressed bugkid, I pressed Haku, and I'm pressing you now. Literally all I didn't do is start trying to tell people to get their votes off me. And of course I know that, but again, you didn't address what I said about how anyone is -actually- going to prevent a mislynch in a logical manner, and this is certainly not going to happen with everyone not wanting the one person whose alignment they know (themselves) to get lynched. Someone will, and then it'll be that.

2: You don't need to tell me how to play the game, because I don't know your alignment. It's not like I'm going to play YOUR game without knowing that, I'd be the biggest fool ever. Yes I understand you might be saying that with the interest of town in play, but you're also not doing the same thing with what I'm actually saying.



It shouldn't even matter that I am a human. This is even moreso the wolf wincon lol.

What are these points you are referring to? Points about what? All ive seen happen is im calling you out for your quite frankly bizzare attitude and recieving some assurances that you know what your doing and if you die youll vomit up a reads list and this will somehow make everything ok

Let me make this as clear as i can for you so that there is no room for misunderstanding: i am not going to risk believing that anyone who says its ok for someone they know for a fact is human (aka themselves) to die is actually human. It is possible that your are human, but the chance of you being a wolf is high enough that i will not find a better case anywhere d1 and i would be a fool to vote elsewhere

I will vote you here, thunderdome and win if neccessary because in a situation where i have no info, i play the percents