TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

This EOD is going to be sheer. Fucking. Chaos.

I will ready the lube

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

smacked with irl til now, and even now i should be starting to cook

to address sunfan specifically:
saying "yoshl is playing like a natural town, and i don't have anything to point out therefore because yoshl can act this way as scum, scumread."
sure PoE exists with people playing towny, but at the same time, the reasoning feels like garbage tier lazy and it's not something i expect coming from sunfan especially.
i also agree with freezin in that you're playing pretty safe, in not actually giving concrete scumreads. out of your PoE, it wasn't that you had a specific person who you had most scummy, but you've fallen back on the "well i wanted people to talk about freezin" from what it looks like. no actual commitment to the hunt of scum tbh

post #1081 plop says haku is making sense right now, and i would very hard disagree, because his reads progression is literally nonexistent from what i can glean.

post #1088 I actually like freezin's reaction to sunfan, mostly because it's pretty heavily mirroring what i'm thinking tbh. I think freezin town here 9 times out of 10, don't think he comes back and picks a fight with sunfan like that if he's W and gets a pressure vote - he's actually looking into sunfan's actions and case and addressing that fact - that sunfan doesn't seem to actually have any cases towards his non-PoE, and is trying to push worlds that aren't the main ones being discussed at the time.

Trevor's #1136 post i'd like to comment on a bit, because i feel like there's a couple good points, but they amount to stuff that i think could either be NAI or wolf leaning given the context.
The first section where he mentions fg's vote on plop is a weak, because i don't think that really amounts to "distancing" in any traditional sense, throwing a vote onto plop at EoD.
The hindsight section is actually throwing me for a loop because even earlier in the game sunfan was like "hey my bones are a rattlin we're gonna hit green" and there wasn't too much said about that.
I don't think plop's post that t-force is referring to is actually even bad, because i think most people were on that same mindset of voting ulle d0, so plop isn't even wrong there.

I also think that his analysis on Haku being town is super weak. "It would be very hard to keep up that facade for so long" is more or less just an assumption that can't really be backed up with any in thread evidence - none of the actual analyzing done was spent on what they were actually saying, or how haku's reads and opinions were developing (i still can't follow haku's progressions lmao)

#1171 - one of the few good Tforce posts this game i think but doesn't really change the overarching wolfy vibe tbh

(intermission) throughout thread, I personally *still* don't have a good grasp on mellon, i'm not reading her on either side, i've seen stuff like "she's more assertive this game" and a couple other things, but if someone can explain like more in-depth why they're reading mellon the way they are, i'd appreciate

#1210 - plop says

which again is literally what i feel, and i don't think i grasp even plop's reasoning other than "i was wrong last time" i think?

#1234 - ok never mind actually lmao i think i remember now someone pointed out earlier the mellon advice and this actually feels so towny, i was thinking the same thing as haku started back up with the three wolf world build
still, to me it feels like such a weird feeling that i feel like i know, but i don't actually know, and am still wondering if anyone else can like, elucidate this kind of thing still

stopped right before plop wall, will continue with that. sunfan claims that "Yoshl, Force, Freezin & plop" are part of his non poe, and actually reading back through his post #1073, that raeko read is so gas filled that it'd blow away with a fart like, damn why is she not part of PoE when she fits your criteria, especially in that no-one really has been talking about her? again looking back, it feels super contrived and not actually a quality PoE

brb corn

Big YoshL post. Bolded are references to Plop and Freezin. Note the difference between how he frames Plop and Freezin against how he frames sunfan and T-Force.

He quotes plop several times here but NOT ONCE takes a moment to comment on his alignment. Remarkable, still, because early in the post he "hard disagrees" with Plop's take on Haku, yet later on in the post he quotes a plop post that is "literally how [YoshL] feels". And STILL, there's no real attempt at solving Plop... and afterwards, any Plop-related lines of reasoning go "poof."

If this sounds familiar it should, because it's the same exactly fucking pattern I described involving YoshL+Plop's conversation about Ulli. Plop made a bad take about Ulli, YoshL entered to say "actually I strongly disagree!" and then... nothing happens. At best, YoshL has said that he's "fine" with Plop based on a general problem-solving mindset, which is pretty special, because nobody else in this game has gotten such a free ride from YoshL based solely on problem-solving ethic.

Plop definitely isn't the only person with displaying that ethic this game, but for some reason you've been holding those other players to different standards of conduct so you can conveniently ignore plop altogether.

----------

His overview of Freezin, by comparison, isn't as obviously disingenuous, but you can still observe a different standard of "solving" when he describes literally anybody else in this post.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

huge fucking wagonomics post

T-Force is firmly in the "bad" category, and is the only one besides Shadow living there, yet T-Force isn't even in Freezin's top 3 this phase.

Maybe his progression is actually natural, that's for us to figure out.

I will say on average that if Freezin is wolfing with Plop and YoshL then they're doing a pretty good job of hiding that fact. It's harder to find any specific connection or interaction to nail him to the cross. With that said, I really, really don't think sunfan can be a third wolf... T-Force most likely can't be with Plopadop... and Raeko is a really hard sell, maybe it's possible she's a wolf, but that's a question for like literally F3 or whatever.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

Also something about my wolf game that you might have forgotten sunfan but I tend to make longer posts vs when I am town

I notice YoshL doing that rn

true

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I feel you. I'm grappling with that a bit as well, but I'm still feeling optimistic.

So if you don't see any improvement, you're okay lynching there?

"Just to make sure, you're OK with lynching my town read if he doesn't get any better, right?

Why? Oh, no reason."

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I don't like Plop and YoshL most. This is my feeling at the moment before re-reading or analyzing anything since the haku flip

I will go through slowly and try to figure out concrete reasons for my feelings

Dropping this as a reminder for Raeko, because she tends to forget things sometimes!

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I like the work here, and I would agree with the conclusion of one wolf on each section (trains vs. non), but I'd also wonder if there'd be one on each:
one on FFA, one on Ulle, and one non.

To borrow from Freezin:

[big fucking wagonomics post, T-Force flavored]

Yeah, this post looks COMPLETELY redundant if you imagine T-Force and Freezin as wolves together.

Freezin makes a massive fucking wagonomics post, then T-Force comes in to say, "hey! I like this post, but I actually think my version is more accurate!" and does the same fucking thing.

It... really, REALLY feels like a poor use of time for T-Force and the wolf team to nearly fucking duplicate Freezin's work if they're working together. That would signal a complete failure of wolf communication that is kind of hard to imagine, ESPECIALLY if you know that T-Force is a major scumlean for the majority of the thread... You'd imagine that T-Force and Freezin would, in wolf chat, collaboratively write-up a single wagonomics perspective that suits BOTH of their agendas. That way you can give T-Force time and energy to actually, you know, defend himself for the remainder of the phase.

This might sound like a really nitpicky thing, and maybe it is, but if I'm potentially worried about one of my wolf partners getting lynched today, the LAST thing I'm going to let him do is waste time with a duplicate post like that. The most important thing is to let him focus on not fucking dying instead.

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

pretty much caught up

i thought about making a post refuting/explaining all the nitpicks people had with me but decided that would most be for my own ego so nah

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

>1st List in order of wolfiest to least:

Sunfan > yoshi = haku

>2nd list in order of wolfiest to least

Plop = Subaru > Tforce > Shadow


Probably not lynching outside of sunfan / plop / subaru. Also dont think tforce deserves to die today

OK, this jives a bit more with his current reads.

Freezin, would you be comfortable lynching Plop instead of sunfan today?

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

How come?



The second paragraph still holds up. Whether you're going for the volume clear or not, you're still announcing that volume clearing yourself was something you considered either doing or not doing.

Hmm, personally I didn't think it was too spicy since I've become desensitized to seeing people argue with ffa, but I understand what you mean now. I took spicy to mean, like, hot take, not fired up.

In response to some Freezin posts.

Yeah, the dynamic between Freezin and Plop feels quite different than the dynamic between YoshL and Plop. I don't exactly know what this means practically, but it's weighing on my mind a little bit.

I'm still, like, 50% sure Freezin is the third wolf, but I would feel better with some more "gotcha!"s, I guess.

sunfan, if you're town, your job is to prove that Freezin is a wolf on his own terms if I'm not able to link him to the others. I really would not advocate a Freezin lynch today, but he really DOES need to be solved if we want to completely win this game.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

cause hes efforting p hard and i have better scumleans

like you

Re: Plop.

You'd have no problem lynching Plop today, right, Freezin?

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

id rather kill sunfan and yoshi before plop if at all possible

the only place where i think i could be wrong is tforce/plop. Im pretty sure plop is the wolf in that pairing but im obviously not 100% certain. Since they are never wolfing together in my mind and im ride or die on that read, it makes sense to kill my 100% scumreads before visiting that choice. I guess im all in on raeko town too but im ok with that.

if we're lucky we can get a save on someone dying in the night from dbp/shadow and get out of mylo, which gives myself room to be wrong when im choosing between tforce and plop near the end

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

oh i didnt read your latest posts

one sec let me see if i need to add anything

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

pretty much caught up

i thought about making a post refuting/explaining all the nitpicks people had with me but decided that would most be for my own ego so nah

So let's say you're town for a second here

To me, what you're saying is you'd rather just lie down and die

That's basically throwing the game

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

Unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly