TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

So, here's what I have to say. I think that, if I die, its not the greatest tragedy that the world has ever known. I'm not going to spend hours today, or in f3 if I'm there, defending myself and worrying about town winning.

I'm going to try of course.

I think that the game is probably simple enough to where you can just kill me and charu in any order and win.

I was playing video mafia last night and I was town. I was getting pushed on for (imo) mostly really bad reasoning, and I fought for an hour or so against my death, only to die and for town to get there in the end anyways. People were arguing that I HAD to die for reasons x, y and z (one of them turned out to be that I voted on a mafia, which is funny in hindsight) Obviously, its still good to try, but I do worry that my own words can get in the way of progress sometimes.

Anyways

I have been wrong on fg before. I think, if you look back, I had progression on her being scummy at like
exactly the same time that inD did yesterday. I was honestly getting ready to vote her when I saw two people had done it already. Further, I was going to vote her at EOD and xel beat me to it.

I know what that sounds like, but it is true. Believe me or don't.

But I'll talk about where I think I went wrong on fg this game. T-Force might've hit the nail on the head, and maybe its easier (easIER and not EASY) for her to disguise herself when she is pushing on T-Force for meme reasons, but I still feel like I will usually find her. She had a good entrance in my opinion, and when she quoted one of my posts calling me town in all caps, I was pretty content with calling her town. When she and I interacted too, she felt in line with how she talks to me when she's town. Going back in time, I think that I would end up being right on fg on d1 a good bit above rand%, and I've been dead-ass wrong before on her (which T-Force mentioned even though I've really suppressed that game from my memory), I'm just USUALLY right.

Once the votes came on her last EOD and she wasn't (pleading isn't the right word but I don't really have a better one) with her voters, I felt a lot better about voting her and with the wagon on her. I'd also said that it felt like wolves might've been getting buried by the postcount or struggling to voice their opinions or something, and I kind of still feel like that's it.

Charu has (perhaps a bit less accurately than he realizes) said that I will never bus. I agree rather heavily with that, but if you look at the second EOD (don't look at that first one because it looks bad for me), I wasn't defending her. If I'm a wolf, I know that I probably need her alive at parity, otherwise its gonna be pretty tough for me moving forward. As you can probably tell, I haven't had the fight in me this game. I think that'd be kind of silly for me as a wolf, and I know its a bit sillier solely because I really was like
about to vote for fg and then xel did it

Looking at yesterday, I didn't really expect xel to vote for fg, and I don't think people would've super expected me to do it either, so I think wolves might've underestimated how likely it would be for fg to get lynched there over shado/charu (because at least one of them is always town). I think that this looks bad for Charu but w/e

I also don't really have a backup lynch at the moment. Its probably impossible for me to get off of lynching Charu. If we do go to final 3, even if the Werewolf gods smite star-crossed today or something for the lynch, I will reevaluate everyone or w/e politician phrase you know I have to say here when my back is against the wall.

I'm gonna try to have fun today in the meantime because I've enjoyed letting the game go, and not enjoyed trying to change the current (the star-crossed words per post analysis is the least I've enjoyed werewolf in a while).

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

He defended her almost as much as sunfan did D0, but it never had quite the same w/w connotation to me as sunfans did because of Charu's known bus-Happy meta

oh, right
with me in the POE, Idk if Charu can really get away with busing like he might normally try to do since I'm the moron that keeps yelling at him that he's a wolf, and he can't afford to nk me when he usually can

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

(Sorry I will come back to analyze these, I just am trying to make use of the short time I have on my laptop)

Or FG. The funniness feels weird and she's not even really a gurl this game

I hate that I like this

I like that I hate this

I never thought the day would come where Xel is my top town.
funnygurl yo where'd u go?

I never thought the day would come where Xel is my top town.
funnygurl yo where'd u go?

With 17 minutes left, I think I'm voting between FG and poptart barring something crazy happening

Between the two I'm liking my vote on FG more cause of a strong feeling of weirdness from her and a fear that she's hiding hoping for her weirdness to tide over past EoD
poptart, while all over the place, seems more like it's a case of newbie uncertainty more than deliberate wolfiness, with the exception of his wack read on Star which just felt fake

What? Explain plz
U saying she's been rolling wolf lately and this game is distinctly different?

Rood. I think it's cause our only interaction this game was me calling you unfunny and not a gurl.

More seriously tho,
Would you say I'm normally *less* likeable as a wolf?

Off memory before I go back and delve deeper

Two things that pinged me hard while skimming in spare moments earlier today were:

sunfan had a weird intermission in the midst of his certainty on Charu. it was like *Gonna hang Charu* ---> wait I'm wrong ---> *wait I'm right Charu die u scum* within a couple moments of each other. struck me as contrived, forced, fake like he wanted to try and make it seem like he was having "genuine" second thoughts ----In fairness to his slot, there were a couple of posts where he explained his funfam mentality that I really related with, so I'm not coming to a conclusion here yet just noting what stuck out to me earlier

in a similar vein, FG did something really similar where she voted sunfan and then unvoted right after with some questionable reasoning I can't remember. at the time, I was contemplating the odds she makes that post to distance from a partner who went to bat for her and defended her the previous phase, but whether or not it's w/w, it hit my gut like a bullet train without brakes

Can anyone with a hard town read on FG explain their reasoning to me, please?

I've played with town FG. I've played with wolf FG. I'm not saying I have a grip on her wolfgame at all, but I do feel like I know and like her well enough to know when something's off, and something's definitely off.

I've gone back thru her posts and she has a grand total of 6-8 posts related to thoughts on the game depending on your definition of "game-related", and of those three are distinctly opportune posts where she questioned sunfan's post that was already getting pressure, asked me where my head was when I was being mentioned in thread. Her top suspect seems to generally match thread.

It's like a classic case of UTR wolfing. Someone tell me why I'm wrong

Funnygurl

ninja'd hardcore
great
oh well at least it's moving in the right direction

no I typed posts 1 and 2 together after going thru EoD and her ISO and then didn't want the original question to get lost in my own answer to it so I split it and posted it as two posts and then saw you had already voted her and stolen my thunder spark

for the record

I still am in this twilight zone I never thought I'd be in where Xel is my top town

Star has 100% redeemed my doubts about her from yesterday and is now posting the deep reads I've come to expect from her. The feelings of somewhat being lost in towns that comes thru between the lines is one that's definitely relatable and she's about as far from her last wolf game as she can come. I'd expect improvement in her second wolfgame, but not one this transcendent.

I always tinfoil the hell out of inD, but he's been a solid driving force for town in this game and I think I've been wrong on him enough times to accept his towniness as towniness for once.


Charu had his bit early this phase where I thought he was about as genuine as could be, and I still want to believe that he's town. my earlier read on him hasn't changed much, except for PoE now placing him lower after the rest of the playerlist have solidified their own spots

Sunfan is confusing. I was ready to hang him in the beginning of this phase, but he's made a good comeback and I found myself relating to many of his thoughts. it's the little musings that make me second guess my earlier scumread on him. like, he wrote something like "right now my biggest feeling is that 7 is a much more awkward number than I thought it'd be" which reflected exactly the mood of the phase in my mind

Which brings me to FG. Both an independent analysis of her play this game AND PoE bring it down to no one but her this phase. Both her weird on/off vote on sunfan as well as EoD votes show she's likely paired with sunfan given his defense of her and subsequent swing to get the wagons with her away from a tie.

12 minutes left. I'm comfortable with my vote so why do I sense a wave of senseless vote switches coming?

but why? all you've said so far was that we're not getting along as easily as you'd expect and then asked for my thoughts - thoughts that you haven't responded to

Then vote funny. I, at the very least, am actually posting things you can dissect and her flip has a good chance of helping you solve me. That isn't true the other way around

Look, on the off chance some wacky bullshit pops off in 2 minutes and I get lynched

it'll be f5 and lylo next phase. lynch funny. if she's scum, lynch between sunfan and charu while also briefly reconsidering inDheart

if she isn't scum, I'm sorry for my part in all this

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

that d0 progression on fg from shado looks pretty good in hindsight

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

mr. sun, sun, mr. golden sun

I missed this earlier
kinda think ur town too

kinda having a hard time finding thin wolf leans to make an excuse of a vote out of for today

I don't hate/somewhat like
subaru (wants to try and he was saying that last game when he was a wolf and he definitely posted less that game)
star (feels vintage)
fg (feels vintage)
xel (feels distinctly non-vintage but he seems to be feeling himself this game and I'll let it be/minorly like it)

I won't f5 over and over to spam it but like
I am about as strongly against an fg lynch as I can be for today

there's no worry about what to do; she is just on her own
its definitely her town play

no idea what the votecount is btw (this is probably my fault)

I'd swap Shado and Xel, and probably just change Shado to something more boring like a male cardinal.
I don't get the fg one though.

I was not a fan of the way she voted (and unvoted) me; its the thing I've disliked from her the most

still mostly town but that was definitely a red flag

she is a lot more likely to interact with me a lot more before making a vote like that, but I guess the unvote makes it less bad????

its still not my favorite, and I wouldn't exactly call her play thus far "majestic"

alright, looks like I'm pretty overdue to give a real reads list so here goes something

town to wolf (order matters)
sunfam

ind

xel

star
fg

shado











chair

--------------------------------------

so, I have some explaining to do, as is necessary in this waste of time

I ended up feeling a lot more comfortable with Star/inD (especially inD) than I expected, and I ended up liking Shado less than I expected to.

Briefly talking about each one:

inD its just a following of his processes; I get it much better from him than from anyone else. I usually have a hard time reading him/firmly placing him somewhere but I think he's been very consistent this game, and I selfishly love the progression he had on me today (which I'll talk more about later)

Xel is an interesting read, its entirely because he said that we'd be idiots if we lynched him. Yeah, that's all of it, and it was never a hider-read on him at any point, though it got stronger on my reread. I forget why I was townreading him in the first place, but I think my new reason is better than whatever it was before.

star I'm going to do a really interesting thing with some meta just because I think I've pinned down what I find weird about her thus far. She had a really, really good post where I really did feel her mindset about trying to solve when she feels like too much of the day is gone, the setup sucks for town AND the players are too busy memeing that I doubt came from wolf!star, but my feeling does /slightly/ persist.

fg its just feels, same as it ever was. Her intermittent posts really do a good job of holding me over and she could easily jump up to where Xel is, if not higher, if she does one of like 5 things.

Shado is really interesting because I still don't /really/ think that he's with Charu because Charu started this day with something in mind (and still feels the same way which is A WOLF TELL FOR CHARU BTW). I would have to find the other wolf in my first group of people. Shado was kind of looser than I expected him to be if he is a wolf this game, his EOD was good, and perhaps the biggest, stupidest reason of all is that I don't really smell almonds right now. When he and FFA were wolfing in trailer park boys, it was like "huh, that's a funky smell, wonder what that is" and I just haven't been worrying about that this game. This is probably the worst read on the list and its my own fault that its so bad.

Charu I've probably not talked about enough, but I still feel very strongly about him. The fact that he is still pushing on Shado without, in my opinion, really trying to solve him, speaks a lot to me. That Subaru nightkill is significantly more likely to come from a team with Charu on it (and I also think that it SHOULD slightly limit the players he can be with). Really, I've just played so many games with Charu that when I KNOW he's wolfing, I really, really know that he's wolfing, and I'm rather convinced its now.

To elaborate, he's made confusing nightkills for a very long time. He denied that he's done that recently, and my memory agrees with him, to his credit. But I can't find an explanation for Subaru dying otherwise. I think the setup really does do a good job of letting the wolves make minimum information kills, and you really only need to look at today to see that that could be something that the wolves have been going for. He did it in Undertale, which is the game that sticks out the most in my mind (really because it was anonymous and I had to try to figure out who Charu was so I could change my mind with regard to lynching him.

I am still /slightly/ apprehensive on Charu, for two reasons. I have thought he was a wolf on d0 a lot recently (don't really remember if I had a read on him yesterday). If I'm wrong on Charu, this game gets really, really hard for me, borderline unwinnable probably.

--------------------------------------------

I want to talk about the inD-hiding-behind-sunfan thing. If I thought the hider was going to hide behind me as a wolf, I would let them 10 times out of 10 if it brings the game into mylo. I know that this is like
bad for me to say or w/e, but it is true

----------------------------------

boy, I sure hated making this post
I want to get back to being counterproductive ASAP

This post is at the top of my page and I keep laughing whenever I reload

It's just so funnnygurl

Idk man that's a cute... gryphon but fg posted actual wolfgirls you gotta step it up Charu I'm hardening my heart

I mean this isn't really in response to anything you just said but like
fg's posts all in a row made me not feel so good about her anymore

charu if u don't think its fg you have to get it going in another place

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

Might as well put mine

So the rivalry game did not resolve the rivalry?

I do not know what you mean.



I can understand that, but if it did not at least develop the arc of the rivalry, then that is a bit disappointing.

I do not think I will vote today: Xel, T-Force, Subaru, Charu.

I'm in a weird spot where I don't like Shado's and FG's posts as much as sun fan's and InD's but the latter two are more like they are pandering to my side, if you will. So I can see myself having a blind spot there. I agree with most of FG's posts I guess, I just think they've been limited enough in scope for it to be not hard to fake. Shado I understand is busy, and that he's pushing into other people I suss, I just don't think his analysis was as good as usual.

I'm going Shado over T-Force, resisting urge to last minute switch to FG/sun

Based on responses to my last question from Charu/InD/sun...a dynamic I thought was happening, actually was not? In that it looked like everybody jumped off Shado and people jumped onto T-Force after this message



Which I was interpreting as, very much not from the mindset of being the Hider. Which made me feel really conflicted because I think a wolf who thinks they very likely are going to die, should be claiming Hider at the last minute. Granted T-Force did not either but still. Shado does not even vote to try to save himself until the last minute, which I think is a more townie sign in general. But if he is a wolf may indicate he did not feel that in danger.

I was not actually positive T-Force was a town, but I felt like the information surrounding him throughout the day was more significant/meaningful than anybody else, and my overall lean was town. I wish I had defended him more, but I got stuck in my own head a bit.



The reason why I was on the thinking track so much of who is Hider, is (1) that I have a really bad track record with trying to hang blues on Day 0 while they were afk and (2) that I was having an internal conflict with the fact that I sussed Funny, but thought she was afk. And then even when she wasn't in the last few minutes I kind of thought the more late wagons we have, the more likely we are to out the Hider without being that much more likely to hit a wolf.

--

Anyway, I know that is a lot of words, but I think how Shado played the end of the day is a moment that should be telling for his role and I want to discuss it.

So with FG, Charu is arguing there is a notable playfulness that has not been the case for her other recent wolf games. And sun fan likes her for...some reason, probably the stupid vintage thing. I cannot speak to that as much since I have not played with her recently. But I would argue that this being a turbo, T-Force being here, mood outside of the game, or who a wolf partner is, could be factors that would muddy that. But I do imagine it can be tiring to be a wolf repeatedly, and that that could make it harder to have a good performance, so I understand that aspect.


Basically her main read is, star isn't being weird and T-Force is still pushing her ---> voting T-Force. She also likes sun fan for the unaligned read with T-Force/Subaru. T-Force pointed out that the push being on T-force specifically kind of muddies things, and I agree. Because while she made an effort to explain clearly what she liked about me, she does not really try to engage with T-Force's info too much. Which is explainable by their rivalry to an extent, but still notable.


Pretty late in the day she comments on this. I will point out, that Charu's big reads list (which I will talk about in another post) was similarly guilty of this, in my opinion. The take seems reasonable enough.

What she is doing fits together logically, but that is relatively easier to do when you are only focusing on a few players and have the least posts. Personality wise, she seems at least somewhat similar to when we were wolves together in the Turbo, albeit she definitely did not go full wolfweab there. Haha.

Can you help me see what you see?

I think I need to more so withhold judgment on Shado end of day progression into today until he exists more

InD's FG read feels like something he really believes even though I don't have the context to know how much I should value it. But I respect it.

sun fan's defense of her stood out to me more than her own messages did, if that makes sense.

Well:



























My main concern with her d0 is just that she seems to avoid actually talking to T-Force (especially since he talks about her quite a bit). He's "weird" and they disagree on their strongest relative read. So from a wolf perspective she's just fine with him getting heat from this, and her partner is under the radar.

Her end of day posts are otherwise fine though.

I thought this was mostly about yesterday though.

(Click through to the original post to see quotes)

funnygurl
¿?¿?¿?¿?

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

mr. sun, sun, mr. golden sun

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

fuck, alright
well now I just deserve whatever happens to me

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

So, here's what I have to say. I think that, if I die, its not the greatest tragedy that the world has ever known. I'm not going to spend hours today, or in f3 if I'm there, defending myself and worrying about town winning.

I'm going to try of course.

I think that the game is probably simple enough to where you can just kill me and charu in any order and win.

I was playing video mafia last night and I was town. I was getting pushed on for (imo) mostly really bad reasoning, and I fought for an hour or so against my death, only to die and for town to get there in the end anyways. People were arguing that I HAD to die for reasons x, y and z (one of them turned out to be that I voted on a mafia, which is funny in hindsight) Obviously, its still good to try, but I do worry that my own words can get in the way of progress sometimes.

Anyways

I have been wrong on fg before. I think, if you look back, I had progression on her being scummy at like
exactly the same time that inD did yesterday. I was honestly getting ready to vote her when I saw two people had done it already. Further, I was going to vote her at EOD and xel beat me to it.

I know what that sounds like, but it is true. Believe me or don't.

But I'll talk about where I think I went wrong on fg this game. T-Force might've hit the nail on the head, and maybe its easier (easIER and not EASY) for her to disguise herself when she is pushing on T-Force for meme reasons, but I still feel like I will usually find her. She had a good entrance in my opinion, and when she quoted one of my posts calling me town in all caps, I was pretty content with calling her town. When she and I interacted too, she felt in line with how she talks to me when she's town. Going back in time, I think that I would end up being right on fg on d1 a good bit above rand%, and I've been dead-ass wrong before on her (which T-Force mentioned even though I've really suppressed that game from my memory), I'm just USUALLY right.

Once the votes came on her last EOD and she wasn't (pleading isn't the right word but I don't really have a better one) with her voters, I felt a lot better about voting her and with the wagon on her. I'd also said that it felt like wolves might've been getting buried by the postcount or struggling to voice their opinions or something, and I kind of still feel like that's it.

Charu has (perhaps a bit less accurately than he realizes) said that I will never bus. I agree rather heavily with that, but if you look at the second EOD (don't look at that first one because it looks bad for me), I wasn't defending her. If I'm a wolf, I know that I probably need her alive at parity, otherwise its gonna be pretty tough for me moving forward. As you can probably tell, I haven't had the fight in me this game. I think that'd be kind of silly for me as a wolf, and I know its a bit sillier solely because I really was like
about to vote for fg and then xel did it

Looking at yesterday, I didn't really expect xel to vote for fg, and I don't think people would've super expected me to do it either, so I think wolves might've underestimated how likely it would be for fg to get lynched there over shado/charu (because at least one of them is always town). I think that this looks bad for Charu but w/e

I also don't really have a backup lynch at the moment. Its probably impossible for me to get off of lynching Charu. If we do go to final 3, even if the Werewolf gods smite star-crossed today or something for the lynch, I will reevaluate everyone or w/e politician phrase you know I have to say here when my back is against the wall.

I'm gonna try to have fun today in the meantime because I've enjoyed letting the game go, and not enjoyed trying to change the current (the star-crossed words per post analysis is the least I've enjoyed werewolf in a while).

Assume for a moment I'm town. I'm surprised you're still doubting given that, if I were a wolf, my lynch on FG D0 would've left me playing against literally the entire list of town detectives, but just assume.

Let's also assume you're town.

Do you see Star ever being a wolf here? How about Xel?

Those aren't rhetorical lol I'd like you to actually consider that a world where it's town!you, star, Xel, and Charu in an F4 with NoLynch: Off.

What percentage of the time do you not vote Charu, and in that case who do you vote for and why?

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

Assume for a moment I'm town. I'm surprised you're still doubting given that, if I were a wolf, my lynch on FG D0 would've left me playing against literally the entire list of town detectives, but just assume.

Let's also assume you're town.

Do you see Star ever being a wolf here? How about Xel?

Those aren't rhetorical lol I'd like you to actually consider that a world where it's town!you, star, Xel, and Charu in an F4 with NoLynch: Off.

What percentage of the time do you not vote Charu, and in that case who do you vote for and why?

I'm not really doubting that you're town, I think that you, star and xel all look pretty town. I wouldn't really know what to do tomorrow if I get there, and I would reevaluate, like I said.

I don't ever see star being a wolf here, I think what I said earlier in the game was right; I don't think she was ever a beacon of towniness that she normally is in the early-game (at least I didn't see it), but with her posts at last eod, while voting fg with spanish question marks, I don't think its possible for her to be a wolf.

your progression on fg on d0 looks good (hadn't gone back and reread but I read what star posted) and fg was also pushing you as well in a non-partnery way imo (she tends to not push on her partners)

xel is, I guess, the remainder, but since I haven't used the word vintage today, I'll use it here. The way he reacted to people throwing out the idea of lynching him on d0 is the way that I associate town!xel with reacting. I could probably write 500 words on how he /could/ be a wolf, I just don't really think that it would be productive because its just charu.

since we can't sleep in this bizarro f4 world you've given, I probably just vote for Charu, throw as many words at him while he and I are brought to the scaffold, and see who wins the thunderdome. numbers are arbitrary, but its a large percentage of the time that I vote Charu there, and it would take something pretty revolutionary to change my mind

[Charu]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

its just charu.

My beak is bigger than yours

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

My beak is bigger than yours

I think you said something to the contrary a few games ago, but w/e
you at least didn't flaunt

[Charu]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

What?

I'm saying beak, BEAK!

Not the other thing I think you're referring to!

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

What?

I'm saying beak, BEAK!

Not the other thing I think you're referring to!

I know what you SAID

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

Don't be too hard on yourself. If there was even a single player who didn't make mistakes as town, wolves would never win.
Yesterday was unlike anything I've seen from you before, even in games I consider much harder to read than this one. That's why I had to ask for your take on your own mental space. Now this should probably a post game thing, but for what it's worth, I think the consensus is that you've by and large lived up to your name as a shining star leading town. That's definitely my thought as well. So don't beat yourself up over a couple mistakes here and there, it'll only cloud you up more

I agree, that this is mostly a better conversation for postgame. And I agree that it is not how I want to play or think about the game.

I have a lot of respect for both wolves in this game. I think they are playing well. I just hope that town can play a bit better.