Re: TWG CLXXV: Survivor Newfoundland - GAME THREAD
ON A FAITHFUL DAY IN THE BLUE AND DARK BLUE JUNGLE KNOWN AS EFF EFF ARE
Your noble Wolf Slayer, myself, of course, found himself SURROUNDED by a BUNCH of wolves, so many in fact that wolves were all he could see! This was a dark and troubling time for him, and he STILL TO THIS DAY does not know if he can survive!
There's but one thing he does know, though, and that's how to work through who his true allies are.
How does one work out a loyal, shining sword, able to pierce the hearts of pesky wolves, though? Well, isn't that a dastardly question! What an interesting conundrum indeed! Truly fantastically bewildering, one might say. It is a feat that only the most CUNNING and INTELLIGENT and cute and DASTARDLY, one who is the true WOLF SLAYER could come up with.
SO HERE IS HOW YOUR NOBLE PROTAGONIST IS GOING TO SOLVE THIS, BECAUSE HE DOES NOT KNOW IF HE WILL LIVE TO TELL THE TALE
I WANT YOU TO EITHER PM ME, REPLY HERE, OR TELEPATHICALLY COMMUNICATE WITH YOURS TRULY, THE FOLLOWING:
1: Who do you think needs to be lynched most urgently?
2: What is the 4-man wolf team you have in mind (don't pussy foot around it, explicitly name 4 names)?
3: Who did you vote last phase, and why? Provide logs and quotes to support yourself if you so choose.
4: What effect did the recent T-Force flip have on your stances?
5: If you had to write a eulogy before getting lynched out of this game, what would it entail?
6: Who do you think is controlling the game currently, or has been in the past few phases?
Your noble wolf slayer thanks you deeply for fulfilling this request; if there is any question you pose issue with, do contact me directly or in thread or anywhere. Together we can take up the silver sword and slay these pesky werewolfish saboteurs.
Re: TWG CLXXV: Survivor Newfoundland - GAME THREAD
Hakulyte - Today at 1:50 PM
I switched to T-Force after wv said we were w/w in logs
thesunfan - Today at 1:50 PM
that's really dumb
but you're a wolf so w/e
Hakulyte - Today at 1:51 PM
communication is shit btw
thesunfan - Today at 1:51 PM
you didn't tell anyone
that you switched
during that whole thing
you were just chilling
Hakulyte - Today at 1:52 PM
I went to sleep
thesunfan - Today at 1:52 PM
didn't post about the change before you slept?
Hakulyte - Today at 1:52 PM
I can go post it
not like you're going to insta now
thesunfan - Today at 1:52 PM
go post what
that you changed?
Hakulyte - Today at 1:52 PM
yeah
thesunfan - Today at 1:52 PM
too late
I'm talking about when the vote was happening
Hakulyte - Today at 1:53 PM
?
thesunfan - Today at 1:53 PM
before trevor was lynched
why didn't you tell anyone
you switched before then
Hakulyte - Today at 1:53 PM
Hakulyte - Yesterday at 9:55 PM
im staying on neeee, but I want to meme freezin for a while
that's in cel's log
thesunfan - Today at 1:54 PM
then you moved
without telling anyone
pretty wolfy bro
Hakulyte - Today at 1:54 PM
yeah
thesunfan - Today at 1:54 PM
I have nothing more to say
Re: TWG CLXXV: Survivor Newfoundland - GAME THREAD
1) Hakulyte. Based on my most recent post, there's no way he should ever do that as town. He's fallen off and late last phase I figured that he probably had to be a wolf in most worlds, but now that he's claimed to have voted for T-Force without telling anyone he changed, he's basically lock wolf in my mind.
2) Hakulyte/neee/sound/wv is what I have at the current moment, but its not locked in and I doubt I am 100% right. Hakulyte for sure, neee looks really bad because Haku should only ever do that vote change to ensure that a partner doesn't die, sound and wv is just because I think everyone else in the game is more townie than they are.
3) I voted Trevor because I think his play has been shitty. He was wayyyy less present than he was in the previous game, there was no desire to solve, the person he was replacing didn't look great to me, and the fact that the neee lynch came seemingly out of nowhere felt like wolves were trying to save a partner in t-force. I don't really think I have logs/quotes that can explain my reasoning beyond that.
4) TBH, I didn't know what to do after he flipped. The whole game (star said this to me first btw) feels like sunken cost. We keep lynching the people that just barely didn't die the previous phase, and they keep flipping town. It feels terrible. When T-Force posted that wrestling gif before he died, I got kinda happy. I figured it was him claiming wolf and that we finally got one. When he flipped town, I didn't understand the game anymore. I still don't really understand it, I don't even think that the people we've killed aside from maybe ben at the end were anywhere near townie, they just all happened to be town. That's not an excuse, and I know I've played like
probably my worst game in a few years as town, but it is how I feel; none of the people that died really clearly were bad choices in my mind. I'm going to reevaluate most people as a result of almost certainly entering perma-lylo at the end of this phase. I think that wolves are not in the town core still, probably to the chagrin of a few people who are tired of hearing me see that.
I don't give a shit.
My townreads are good, I'm almost certain.
There's no way that jrodd is a wolf.
There's no way that Cel is a wolf.
There's almost certainly no way that DBP is a wolf.
I'm reevaluating outside of that and Haku as lockwolf. Town has to be perfect now that we've been pushed against the wall after killing Trevor.
TBH I'm gonna can most of this, but I kind of hate how I get when the game gets close like this. I feel... inspired? at the moment. It shouldn't be like this, and it wasn't before. I wish I had that fire before. I've talked to jrodd a bit about this but uh
I feel really, really shitty about how I've played this game. After killing Trevor, it got a lot worse.
To be completely straight to the point, I'm going to look at almost every one of my reads again entering next phase. This is a result of killing my 4th town in a row or something. ffa, tokzic, ben, trevor, so I think that's 4. I've played like shit.
I have a plan about trying to get town together. It probably won't work. I will say no more about it here.
5) My eulogy would probably contain a lot of what I plan to say in the postgame. I'm missing the fire I had before. I see a great post from star-crossed, and I know its well written and probably has a great point or points within it, and all I see now is words. Maybe I'm a bit burnt out on TWG or something, but that's not the way that I should be playing. The way that we play on this site is something that's been a big part of my life for the past couple of years, and as of the past 2 games I haven't given it the respect it deserves. Rereads feel like work. When I see a long post, I don't want to get through it.
That's dumb as fuck. Its not who I am as a player. But its been how I've played as of late.
I don't mean to single star out by herself. Its anyone that posts logs or posts a long post. I don't have the urge to read like I did before. I am content with firing from the hip for reads (I was especially guilty of this on d0) when I really shouldn't be.
I plan to take a break from TWG after this game. If Cold Kitten's game gets voted, I promised her I'd co-mod, but after that.... I want to take a break. I need to take a break. I can't keep playing like this given the standards that I expect to meet as a player because I feel it.
I feel myself not living up to my potential.
I don't really give a shit about League of Legends anymore, but I did at one time. One of the things (probably the only thing) that I still keep in my mind is that, even though its a team game, if you lost, its a good mindset to have to treat the loss as your fault. You didn't play perfect. You fucked up. If you were better, you could've won something like 90+% of your games unless you're at the absolute tip top of the ladder.
That's me this game. I did uh
probably just about everything wrong this game. My reads have been garbage. I fucked up the seering (I justified it in hindsight too). I've probably fucked up something else recently.
If town loses, which it almost certainly will
I am responsible. It is my fault.
Last phase jrodd and I were talking about switching to Haku instead of Trevor. I made the decision to stay on Trevor. After seeing what Haku has said, I feel like
extra shitty about that decision now.
I don't read the thread as much as I should, and I promise that I'm going to change that.
I find it a kind of poetic justice that the wolf team here has flavor in their PM based on seeking glory and not caring about the actual show.
That's kind of how I've played TWG as of late. I want people to tell me that I'm good at the game more than I want to win. TWG is one of the few things that I think is a halfway useful skill that I've truly been great at in my life. When I found that out, I think it changed me for the better. I want to play it well as much as I can because its a great feeling to lynch a wolf and its a great feeling to live to parity as a wolf or to kill an unclaimed pr. I seek glory.
To be truthful, I think this helps a lot if you want to be good at this game. It is not a necessary skill. It just helps. Its not entirely bad.
I've gone so far as to pick out the avatar that I'll be sporting while I'm away.
So uh
to end this rambley nonsense, my eulogy would probably complain a lot of self-righteous bitching, would probably be followed with one of my trademark long, sad "just got lynched as town" showers, and probably wouldn't contain much different game related info given that I think I've given what I have.
6) I don't think wolves have been controlling the game. I don't care if you disagree with me on this point cel, because this is a question that you care about. neee is the only potential candidate in my mind that could even come close to being an acceptable answer, and he doesn't really come that close. jrodd, dbp, star, myself and freezin have all been pretty active in the chat, and aside from maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe with the smallest chance of freezin being a wolf, I don't see any wolves there at the moment (I need to look at star and freezin again to be fair). I think town has fucked up more than the wolves have controlled shit. We'll see for sure in the postgame/coming phases, but I bet I'm right here. I don't think anyone has been "controlling the game" at any point, recent phase or no.
I certainly feel extremely responsible for the terrible situation that town has found itself in, but I don't think I've controlled the game.
Re: TWG CLXXV: Survivor Newfoundland - GAME THREAD
soundwave
[10:32 PM] Celirra: hi
[10:32 PM] Soundwave: hey duders
[10:33 PM] Celirra: [2:09 PM] Gamut: i have a suspicion
[2:09 PM] Gamut: that the tribes wolf split
[2:09 PM] Gamut: is 3/1
[2:09 PM] Celirra: can you back up that statement
[2:10 PM] Gamut: what i just said is a lot of it
[2:10 PM] Gamut: but also i mention in tribe chat
[2:11 PM] Gamut: soundwave said he heard from haku
[2:11 PM] Gamut: that sunfan was starting an alliance
[2:11 PM] Gamut: i was like "hmm ok did anyone get messaged by sunfan"
[2:11 PM] Gamut: and nobody had
[10:33 PM] Celirra: sunfan and haku deny
[10:33 PM] Celirra: I hope that answers your questions
[10:33 PM] Celirra: sorry i didnt come with you sooner
[10:33 PM] Celirra: er, to you
[10:34 PM] Soundwave: yeah, it's strange. It's all in his tribe. We've been theorizing about why over in ddr
[10:34 PM] Soundwave: Still people report no contact
[10:34 PM] Celirra: I dont know if tokzic was the start of this
[10:34 PM] Celirra: or if this even is the starting incident
[10:35 PM] Soundwave: I mean it didn't start in ddr. I don't know if there was any other contact out regarding it
[10:41 PM] Celirra: I see
[10:41 PM] Celirra: If it means anything to you
[10:41 PM] Celirra: ffa is the other candidate other than you
[10:41 PM] Celirra: if thats not common knowledge
[10:42 PM] Soundwave: it's not
[10:42 PM] Soundwave: should we coordinate cross tribes?
[10:42 PM] Soundwave: I don't see us reaching a consensus. our order is like, ben>me and then it just kidna falls off lol
[10:43 PM] Soundwave: my tribe wants to know if ffa is a candidate is representative of itg's opinion as a whole
[10:44 PM] Celirra: I don't want to be a representative of the tribe
[10:44 PM] Celirra: he's a hot point
[10:44 PM] Soundwave: alright
[10:57 PM] Celirra: is it true
[10:57 PM] Celirra: flashflash ragequit kinda
[10:57 PM] Celirra: asking for a replace
[10:57 PM] Soundwave: yeah
[10:57 PM] Soundwave: as soon as we locked consensus he pinged jeff for a replace
[10:57 PM] Soundwave: super fucking childish
[10:58 PM] Soundwave: seems like people can't be bothered to angle it which is probably for the better
[10:59 PM] Celirra: thanks for sharing
[10:59 PM] Celirra: I think flashflash is going
[10:59 PM] Celirra: lets talk soon
[10:59 PM] Celirra: about stuff
[10:59 PM] Soundwave: yep
[10:59 PM] Soundwave: keep in touch
[10:59 PM] Celirra: sorry for not coming to you sooner
[10:59 PM] Celirra: I have douchey reasons for that
[10:59 PM] Celirra: and I hope you dont take it personal
[11:00 PM] Soundwave: np man, I think I get it on an empathetic level :3
[11:00 PM] Celirra: how do you feel about tokzic
[11:00 PM] Soundwave: I dunno. I haven't thought on the recent news tbh
[11:01 PM] Celirra: I called for a while, you two are t/w
[11:01 PM] Soundwave: It just didn't seem relevant to the vote, so I've kinda tuned it out
[11:01 PM] Celirra: based on what i told you earlier about that stuff
[11:01 PM] Celirra: the quote
[11:01 PM] Celirra: thats fair
[11:01 PM] Soundwave: I mean I'm definitely feeling a drilling from him, which coudl be t/w, but I've read tokzic poorly in the past
[11:01 PM] Celirra: once you're back in the game's state of mind, no rush but before end of night, I'd like to hear some thoughts if you dont mind
[11:01 PM] Soundwave: He's good at grilling out wolves
[11:01 PM] Soundwave: It's what he does
[11:02 PM] Soundwave: And he made a reasonable vote imo
[11:02 PM] Soundwave: so I can't feel that he's actually trying to wagon me as wolf atm
[11:03 PM] Celirra: that's fair
[11:03 PM] Celirra: for a while, and actually until the flashflash thing
[11:03 PM] Celirra: I was kinda gunning for you
[11:03 PM] Celirra: based on what tokzic told me
[11:03 PM] Celirra: despite apprehensions with him
[11:03 PM] Celirra: based on philosophy too that I don't know how much you would help us compared to others, which is where the douchey mentality comes from
[11:03 PM] Celirra: and I think some others
[11:03 PM] Celirra: I dont wanna name names
[11:03 PM] Celirra: had a similar outlook
[11:04 PM] Celirra: idk about tokzic though
[11:04 PM] Soundwave: i mean that's the hard thing right, like sunfan isn't functionally playing the game differently, but that's far more trust in him than me
[11:05 PM] Soundwave: I mean I can't speak on his in tribe communications so maybe he's got a master plan I don't see (he probably does, it's sunfan after all)
[11:05 PM] Soundwave: but like I feel like if I don't pick it up people are going to grill me for not communicating outside my tribe and it's kinda like... yeah but isn't sunfan not communicating out of tribe either ???
[11:05 PM] Soundwave: I still feel disadvantaged at twg
[11:07 PM] Celirra: in fairness
[11:07 PM] Celirra: you kinda have a track record of uh
[11:07 PM] Celirra: well not being very helpful typically
[11:07 PM] Celirra: notably in live I remember
[11:07 PM] Soundwave: yeah
[11:07 PM] Soundwave: I'm not saying it isn't deserved
[11:08 PM] Celirra: I want you to prove me wrong on that
[11:08 PM] Soundwave: but it is self sustaining
[11:08 PM] Celirra: you're a cool guy and I dont think it's representative
[11:08 PM] Celirra: and I'm glad you keep singing up occasionally
[11:08 PM] Celirra: I hope you prove us wrong
[11:08 PM] Celirra: this is a good game to do it
[11:08 PM] Celirra: join the voice chats etc
[11:08 PM] Celirra: reach out to people
[11:08 PM] Celirra: reach out to shado
[11:08 PM] Soundwave: ha, for disclosure, he reached out to me. sure you probably already know that
[11:09 PM] Celirra: I might've but forgot
[11:09 PM] Celirra: sentiment stands
[11:09 PM] Celirra: reach out to sunfan if you havent talked yet
[11:09 PM] Celirra: also jrodd
[11:09 PM] Celirra: those are 2 I think you should from my tribe
[11:09 PM] Soundwave: aight
[11:13 PM] Celirra: talk to me more too
[11:13 PM] Soundwave: haha alright
[11:16 PM] Soundwave: somebody didn't vote... Interesting
[11:16 PM] Celirra: not necessarily
[11:16 PM] Celirra: insta was met
[11:16 PM] Soundwave: 8 is not insta for 16 votes
[11:17 PM] Celirra: oh this is true
[11:17 PM] Soundwave: don't know if that's a mistake or not
January 20, 2018
[8:38 PM] Soundwave: you around?
[8:54 PM] Celirra: Hey sorry I'm kinda out for my mom's birthday
[8:54 PM] Celirra: But I've an hour or so
[8:54 PM] Soundwave: Yeah np, just wanted discord info for j-rodd (and others if you'd think they'd be okay with having it shared), I didn't see it in thread
[8:55 PM] Celirra: Admittedly I'm not quite sure how to go about sharing it
[8:55 PM] Soundwave: their username + # identifier is enough. i can add them as friend and hopefully they respond
[8:56 PM] Celirra: Jrodd#7622
[8:56 PM] Celirra: The pic is like, some kind of sports player
[8:56 PM] Celirra: Anyone else you want?
[8:57 PM] Celirra: Also idk how much jrodd would wanna talk, be forewarned
[9:02 PM] Soundwave: I don't have info for V, DBP, and T-Force if he's in yet.
[9:03 PM] Celirra: Dabackpack#5775
[9:03 PM] Celirra: Birdmang#6018 is V
[9:03 PM] Celirra: Idk force admittedly
[9:03 PM] Celirra: He joined but I'm not good at mobile discord
[9:04 PM] Soundwave: np, I'll catch up with him later or get his info from someone else. Thanks
[9:04 PM] Celirra: Yup yup
[9:04 PM] Celirra: Has there been much talk in your tribe or with anyone else?
[9:05 PM] Soundwave: I'm talking with wolfe rn and I talked to sunfan (he wasn't amazingly talkative but answered my questions), but tribe is pretty dead rn
[9:05 PM] Celirra: Sunfan was like that with me too
[9:06 PM] Celirra: Do you have any opinions on
[9:06 PM] Celirra: Tokzic
[9:06 PM] Celirra: Wv
[9:06 PM] Celirra: Reuben
[9:07 PM] Celirra: Sorry for interrogating you're just kinda the first person I've spoken to from your tribe todat
[9:07 PM] Celirra: Today*
[9:07 PM] Soundwave: wv is empty af. People like him for some reason but from my perspective he isn't really here, and that bugs me
[9:08 PM] Soundwave: When we were discussing how we were going to vote he was my first pick
[9:23 PM] Celirra: That's interesting
[9:23 PM] Celirra: I feel like he's someone who comes up sometimes then is suddenly forgotten about again
[9:23 PM] Celirra: Which makes me uneasy
[9:23 PM] Soundwave: It's like he's got a rep that lets him utr and I don't like it either
[9:25 PM] Celirra: That might be what it is definitely
[9:25 PM] Celirra: Kinda like you have a rep for scumminess
[9:26 PM] Celirra: And me too for some reason
[9:26 PM] Celirra: Well at least in most forum games
January 25, 2018
[8:07 PM] Celirra: hi
[8:07 PM] Celirra: how do you feel about knightsofneeeee
[8:17 PM] Soundwave: Especially today, I feel like they're getting complacent with the game. Seems to me like they're pretty set on a wolf dying (under impression they're on me but I won't speak for them) and coasting on that. A town can't do that. Even if they were 100% confident on a wolf kill this day, there's still 3 more out there. But a wolf can if they're lynching me, because they only have to dupe town one more time to win.
[8:19 PM] Celirra: do you have a citation on the
[8:19 PM] Celirra: neee trying to lynch you thing
[8:24 PM] Soundwave: don't think nee has been pushing me but scum me is a pretty popular position and I guess I could like look and cite nee having an antag attitude towards me but the read isn't based on precisely who nee is voting for, only that nee isn't still trying to develop reads or find a lock pair or something that would turn the tide from imminent parity
[8:27 PM] Soundwave: 8:31 AM] theknightsofneeee: @Soundwave thats some nice shade you're throwing me itt, but if you actually read anything that i've said all game, i've explained those reads time and time again
Here's some juicy complacency. Knights is somehow exempt from actually reiterating their reads even if they haven't changed (which hopefully they have) question mark?
[8:29 PM] Soundwave: Didn't actually see this the first time reading through start of day but does a town say this: [9:28 PM] theknightsofneeee: part of me is worried that sunfan is actually a villager and thinks i'm a wolf
[9:29 PM] theknightsofneeee: and part of me is like 'fuck it, he's probably just a wolf lol'
[8:29 PM] Celirra: sunfan said that about me
[8:29 PM] Celirra: tbf
[8:29 PM] Celirra: along the lines of
[8:29 PM] Celirra: him being scared I think he's town and get him lynched
[10:02 PM] Soundwave: Tforce
[10:02 PM] Celirra: ty
[10:17 PM] Soundwave: Second choice is neee. Between the two still on tforce obv
[10:19 PM] Celirra: ty
Re: TWG CLXXV: Survivor Newfoundland - GAME THREAD
jrodd
Celirra
#4125
Jrodd
Search
This is the beginning of your direct message history with @Jrodd.
[2:37 PM] Celirra: hi friend I've been holding off on talking to you
[2:37 PM] Celirra: for reasons related to
[2:37 PM] Celirra: who are you
[2:37 PM] Celirra: who am I
[2:37 PM] Celirra: but I think it's pertinent
[2:37 PM] Celirra: the whole allaince thing
[2:37 PM] Celirra: was shared to me by tokzic
[2:37 PM] Celirra: and I told haku and sunfan
[2:37 PM] Celirra: but
[2:37 PM] Jrodd: Hello
[2:37 PM] Celirra: you might find this interesting
[2:38 PM] Celirra: [2:09 PM] Gamut: i have a suspicion
[2:09 PM] Gamut: that the tribes wolf split
[2:09 PM] Gamut: is 3/1
[2:09 PM] Celirra: can you back up that statement
[2:10 PM] Gamut: what i just said is a lot of it
[2:10 PM] Gamut: but also i mention in tribe chat
[2:11 PM] Gamut: soundwave said he heard from haku
[2:11 PM] Gamut: that sunfan was starting an alliance
[2:11 PM] Gamut: i was like "hmm ok did anyone get messaged by sunfan"
[2:11 PM] Gamut: and nobody had
[2:38 PM] Celirra: I think that's the full context
[2:38 PM] Celirra: and interesting is
[2:38 PM] Celirra: I have logs from sunfan talking to haku, and haku talking to soundwave
[2:38 PM] Celirra: neither contain any mention of any of that claim
[2:39 PM] Celirra: anyways this boils down to
[2:39 PM] Celirra: if you get vigi
[2:39 PM] Celirra: I think soundwave should go pew pew
[2:39 PM] Jrodd: I'm not getting the vigi
[2:40 PM] Celirra: oh
[2:40 PM] Celirra: statement stands in general
[2:40 PM] Celirra: I know this topic is largely of disinterest to you
[2:40 PM] Celirra: based on your tribe chat discussion
[2:40 PM] Celirra: but that's full context
[2:40 PM] Jrodd: Yea soundwave made a post that I thought was kind of villagery
[2:41 PM] Jrodd: Not gonna stake my life on that read
[2:41 PM] Jrodd: But I'm not certain that really means anything sorry
[2:41 PM] Jrodd: Saying that tho soundwave could still be a wolf obv
[2:41 PM] Jrodd: I just would shoot elsewhere
[2:42 PM] Celirra: That's definitely fair
[2:42 PM] Celirra: I'd be curious to hear your thoughts in regards to shooting
[2:42 PM] Celirra: But I also know I don't think I could give any further insight on my own stance so
[2:42 PM] Jrodd: Yea maybe it's cuz I wasn't involved that I don't share the opinion
[2:43 PM] Celirra: That's fair
[2:43 PM] Celirra: Thanks for sharing your insight
[2:49 PM] Jrodd: I'll try and think more about wolves soon
[2:49 PM] Celirra: I think it's a bit of a crapshoot, at least for me for now
[2:49 PM] Celirra: too much ambiguity in this game
[2:50 PM] Celirra: for now I'm going more with who I trust vs who I think is town due to volatility of town right now
[2:50 PM] Celirra: I think you can agree the earlygame is kinda... important here
[2:50 PM] Celirra: so I almost think getting rid of objectively bad eggs is better than a gamble on a wolf
[2:51 PM] Celirra: like if you were dead set on me being wolfy and were gonna wolf read me all game, I'd say I'm a good target
[2:51 PM] Celirra: thats my mindset with soundwave and flashflash
[2:51 PM] Celirra: and thats unlikely to change
[2:57 PM] Jrodd: Yea the vig is our best thing
January 25, 2018
[10:06 PM] Jrodd: Tforce
[10:09 PM] Celirra: ty
[10:37 PM] Jrodd: Who's your vote on
[10:41 PM] Celirra: neee
[10:41 PM] Jrodd: Any chance u go tforce
[10:42 PM] Celirra: no
[10:42 PM] Celirra: tforce seems ok plus I dont think it gets us anywhere
[10:43 PM] Celirra: i dont like info lynching
[10:43 PM] Celirra: but he gives 0
[10:43 PM] Celirra: and if wrong we lose
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