Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

[choof]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

the removal of chord cohesion breaks a few chart ideas I've had

rip

[Reincarnate]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

I don't even know what this is and I don't really play anymore but whatever CC is it seems like it's way out of place mechanically

[leonid]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

it only made sense back in the early 2000s when charts were not as spammy as now and mostly played on a pad, so each chord is considered "a move", and thus counted as one note. It makes no sense now because for this community stepmania is basically 4 key bms

[AutotelicBrown]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

Don't scale anything; treat quad as if you hit four notes. As mentioned before, you can simulate a "quad" by putting four notes really close together. IMO the actual quad and the simulated quad should count the same way

You don't even need to go that far and use examples that happen more often in practice. For instance the point difference between a [12][34] jumptrill to a 1234 roll should be only related to how hard each one is to time, but with scaled points the latter is worth twice as much from the outset. The faster it gets, the closer the roll is to simulated jumps which approaches the degenerate scoring situation you mentioned.

Funnily enough that difference is balanced a bit with chord cohesion by the fact you can't rush a single column in jumptrills, but I digress.

From my time playing without chord cohesion, I don't think not scaled vs. scaled ends up being that different, but from a design perspective not scaled makes way more sense.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

Remove it

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

From my time playing without chord cohesion, I don't think not scaled vs. scaled ends up being that different, but from a design perspective not scaled makes way more sense.

it probably averages out to being even, unscaled just magnifies any advantage/disadvantage by a little bit

i.e. if you were to gain slightly from the removal of chord cohesion because you hit everything as intended you will gain slightly (when compared to scaled points, ranging from nothing to about +1% in outliers, and maybe +0.2% on avg), and if you were punished because you are an irreverent masher you will get punished a little more (figures are about the same but negatives).

pretty much every chordjack file is just going to be flat out harder no matter how good you are, and honestly i think most people might find dense hs harder instead of slightly easier

but like I said on the average it pretty much makes no difference, unscaled just slightly exaggerates the effects of outliers compared to scaled points

[choof]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

anyone in favor of keeping chord cohesion is a fucking baddie

[Chocille]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

anyone in favor of keeping chord cohesion is a fucking baddie

youre sooo right haha i second this definitely

[shakesoda]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

why stop there just go full retard and use sm6 scoring for +9 points for each mine you don't hit

I asked for feedback on this and received none, so I just went with what I had. I don't know what beef you've got with me, but jfc you could at least talk to me about it.

[mwes]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

I asked for feedback on this and received none, so I just went with what I had. I don't know what beef you've got with me, but jfc you could at least talk to me about it.

As much as OK_mine is stupid and against the nature of vsrg, i would like this discussion not be held in this thread.

[shakesoda]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

As much as OK_mine is stupid and against the nature of vsrg, i would like this discussion not be held in this thread.

aight

on the actual topic I'm not a big fan of cc either, but it's way less stupid on pad than kb

[DeadSignal]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

thanks for clearing things up mina, I was very much looking forward to a public stance from you on that topic


as I see it, the reason as to why people tend to resort to mentalities in regards to them feeling entitled to playing the game "however they want" stems from them being all-around unreceptive to the idea that the meta can still very much evolve for the better, for whatever their reasons may be

furthermore, an evolution of such a caliber very much revolves around the enforcement of new efficient standards - call it black-or-white thinking, or whatever the fuck you want really, but honestly if that is what it takes to push the game forward then so be it


that being said, while I still perceive my initial stance as being logically valid in some capacity, I am very much willing to concede it in favor of the benefits of forced wife + unscaled cc off implementation which are not only comparatively far more tangible in nature, but also offer a more stable foundation in regards to things that are to come


I do look forward to seeing to what extent unscaled cc off will end up changing things however, though I suppose it will take a while

[AutotelicBrown]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

that being said, while I still perceive my initial stance as being logically valid in some capacity

In no point of your first post you actually support your stance logically. More precisely:

My personal answer to that question is the following: I honestly do not see how less-experienced players within the game can benefit at all from disabling CC, as their playstyles lack the requisite physical control to even make anything out of the added visual feedback.

Even if this was true, it doesn't imply disabling CC is a detriment (i.e. it could be neutral instead). You actually have to show some disadvantage of having no CC to ground your claims.

Also note it's not a matter of only adding feedback on top of what exists, you are replacing the misleading feedback given by CC.

[blindreper1179]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

Idk what way is which, all I know is I hate you have hit all the arrows to hit any of the arrows.

[choof]

Re: Public opinion poll on Etterna Chord cohesion removal

well there ya have it folkz