[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by XelNya

So good. But what's really worth talking about is that wolf lean on precarious. Like, let's be fair, a scum lean this early is fine, the issue is that there's not much to support it, and even further still if you look at this post he's got some more confident leans, but then his ONE scum lean is weak af.

I made this read list with the goal of investigating players further and hopefully get better content/support for making clear decisions. That Null "wolf-lean" is just hinting that I agree with DaBackPack about thinking that Precarious haven't made enough human-looking posts and is possibly yet again hiding behind "raw commentary". I'm not saying "omg we should lynch him", I'm just hinting that if he keeps following that pattern, he's unlikely to make me town-read him. Precarious if you read this, it's very simple, you can keep doing theory posts, but you should also explain "YOUR" stance, not every possible stances.

Here's an example:

Originally Posted by Precarious

I disagree strongly.

Let's say you have an 8 player game of six town and two wolves. We'll call the players ABCDEFGH. If A accuses B, saying "B looks like a wolf, C and D feel town" and nothing else, and all the other players respond in kind, there's no case being built, no rallying point for consensus or discussion, and no way to separate town posts from wolven ones. Anyone can say "So-and-so feels town to me" or "Player is a wolf." Wolves can say that too, in fact.

And while you argue from the one's own perspective rather than that of the group, there are two problems here. Gut reads are not fundamentally reliable. Until you can point out someone who can gut reads wolves all the time (or even a majority of the time, or hell, even a third of the time), you should be backing up your case with observational and mechanical evidence as best as possible, not just for the thread, but to challenge your own assumptions.

There's a really bad trend that just about everyone is guilty of (myself included) where there's a need to couch everything in extremely certain language so as not to look weak or undecided or deceptive. The problem is, if you're not constantly second guessing yourself, you're not being honest with yourself. That's why gut may be an okay place to start from, but once you start actually reading, you should be looking for reasons that support it. After all, TWG is A TEAM GAME. If your observations, however weird or off, prod other players down a productive path, then that has value.

As for mechanics, the stuff I've done so far is very superficial (and yet some people needed it apparently). But as the game progresses, it becomes more valuable as stuff like vote analysis can come into play. It's even more useful in particularly complicated games (although this one isn't). But you're arguing for an information vacuum of gut reads and nothing else, which is a wolf's dream scenario.

Your stance here is: "I disagree strongly". Good! Why?

Let's say you have an 8 player game of six town and two wolves. We'll call the players ABCDEFGH. If A accuses B, saying "B looks like a wolf, C and D feel town" and nothing else, and all the other players respond in kind, there's no case being built, no rallying point for consensus or discussion, and no way to separate town posts from wolven ones. Anyone can say "So-and-so feels town to me" or "Player is a wolf." Wolves can say that too, in fact.

Yes, yes that makes sense, but what do "YOU" think?

And while you argue from the one's own perspective rather than that of the group, there are two problems here. Gut reads are not fundamentally reliable. Until you can point out someone who can gut reads wolves all the time (or even a majority of the time, or hell, even a third of the time), you should be backing up your case with observational and mechanical evidence as best as possible, not just for the thread, but to challenge your own assumptions.

Yes, yes that makes sense, but what do "YOU" think?

There's a really bad trend that just about everyone is guilty of (myself included) where there's a need to couch everything in extremely certain language so as not to look weak or undecided or deceptive. The problem is, if you're not constantly second guessing yourself, you're not being honest with yourself. That's why gut may be an okay place to start from, but once you start actually reading, you should be looking for reasons that support it. After all, TWG is A TEAM GAME. If your observations, however weird or off, prod other players down a productive path, then that has value.

Yes, yes that makes sense, but what do "YOU" think?

As for mechanics, the stuff I've done so far is very superficial (and yet some people needed it apparently). But as the game progresses, it becomes more valuable as stuff like vote analysis can come into play. It's even more useful in particularly complicated games (although this one isn't). But you're arguing for an information vacuum of gut reads and nothing else, which is a wolf's dream scenario.

I mean, if you don't see the pattern about him not telling what he actually think by now, I don't know what to tell you.

Haku why you scum reading this man?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm flabergasted that Haku made a good post like this. WHERE WAS THIS EARLY GAME FREN?! WHERE. SHOW ME WHERE.

I can't make meaningful posts without gathering a minimal of content. Interactions needed to happen regardless of how it makes me look like. My early shitposting is me trying to generate content. It didn't go at all like planned. I didn't think ahead about my own posts and it made me look bad. I was slightly irritated at myself and kept saying sarcastic misplaced things that you can probably find easily if you ISO me. I decided to stop that after realizing how everyone seems actually serious about this game already and went back to trying to solve the game.

No sorry, but he's not scummy compared to say Haku, or maybe even myself with the little activity going on.

Build me a case if you want.

3. If Haku's meta as scum is to destory himself, and he's not "doing it as much as usual" isn't it more just a case of he's not making his tell as apperant? Like did you FUCKING READ THE EARLY GAME?

I played enough games to realize that I can't destroy myself forever. I thought I could mess around because of the "shitposting" part of Day 1, but yeah, it didn't help me much.