Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

Yeah dude the majority of us are totally secretly packing this is totally supported by evidence

Holy shit, dude, I literally just said "apparently", based off of Arch's quote, who lives in San Antonio. I have never been to San Antonio, nor will I likely ever go, and I don't doubt that <50% of people walking around don't have a gun, I'm not an idiot, what are you even trying to argue

[korny]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

That you are needlessly paranoid based on statistics and made a terrible analogy about culture shock

[Arch0wl]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

I don't believe that the solution to guns is more guns. The solution should be preventing the person who shouldn't have a gun from getting it to begin with.

1. doesn't matter what you believe, you can "believe" astrology is a sound field of study but that will change nothing

2. """should be""". but any time you try to ban purchase of something you deal with a lot of legal mechanisms that have side effects you didn't intend

a ban is not merely a ban, it is a behavioral claim that it will have the psychological effect you say it will have

the first assault weapons ban, for example, was an utter failure. it had zero predictive power for what it said it was going to do

a lot, if not nearly all, of the people who advocate background checks have not actually thought about what things are going to be checked in the background check. okay, so you're checking for convicted felonies. what about people who have nonviolent felonies, e.g. people who sold LSD once? then they're prime target for robberies since other dealers know they cannot buy a gun. what about people who have killed in self-defense? and so on. it's not nearly as simple as you say it is. this is doubly true considering lots of legal gun owners just occasionally do stupid shit, but nothing nearly as stupid as a mass shooting.

then there's the issue that buying a gun illegally is really fucking easy. if I wanted one I could get one tomorrow. seriously, go on the darknet. talk to your dealer. whatever.

I would have a harder time finding 3-fluoroamphetamine than I do an illegal handgun. I could search for days and not find 3-FA. I could make a few phonecalls and get an illegal gun. I'm not going to get either of those things, but it's the principle.

on the spectrum of illegal guns, the serious shit is like, a M16 fully automatic or something. buying a handgun or whatever illegally is lol-tier and you can get them from people who don't even specialize in illegal guns, because people in desperate situations will sell you all kinds of shit if they really need the money. the only reason it's not more common is because criminals/terrorists/whatever often don't need to, but you're delusional if you think there'd be some huge stoppage if we just barred them. the boston marathon bombers didn't use guns, as is obvious by the title "bomber", they used pressure cooker bombs. when your goal is to kill a shitload of people and die you will find a lot of creative solutions. this killer just happened to find rifles a comfortable method.

what would have actually made a difference is giving the FBI discretion to intervene given a set of criteria (e.g. on watch list, meet some kind of "likely shooter" criteria) but this is only a subset of policies and will not actually fix the scenarios where a shooter manages to go under the radar and still holds homophobic tendencies due to religion.

had there been three or four concealed carriers like there often is at cowboy's dancehall here, this wouldn't have happened. you can fight off one other shooter with a gun, but fighting off three isn't happening.

> "Do you really believe that ISIS, on the other side of the world, influenced this kid at a young enough age to set his moral compass on the murder of scores of homosexuals, and that it wasn't America itself?"

do you really believe this rhetorical device isn't completely fucking retarded

ISIS is trivial, nor did I even mention them

did you read any of the statistics mentioned here at all

because I'm going to say no, you didn't. don't reply again if you haven't referenced them.

"I don't disagree that we can't rely on strict pacifism to deal with this threat" yeah this is not a concession at all. this concession is taking you from "human vegetable-tier intelligence" to "capable of reading words on a screen."

"The only thing that would have happened is panicked gunfire, missed and potentially misplaced shots."

utter bullshit.

you claim to have enough knowledge about guns to make this prediction, and yet

1. you said "I don't like guns"

2. you admitted that going to a place with concealed carry would be a "culture shock"

yet you claim to have the firearms competence to successfully predict the outcome of a firefight

get the fuck out. you are completely and utterly full of shit.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

That you are needlessly paranoid based on statistics and made a terrible analogy about culture shock

Needlessly paranoid? Are you a homosexual? How harshly have you been discriminated against, ever? Have you ever legitimately feared for your life before? Have you ever had people, to your face, claim that you're living a lie and that your very existence is a sin? The LGBT community is hated by quite a few communities. Certain areas of the muslim community, yes. But the American community? I'm much more concerned for myself knowing just how many people, in America, with guns, think that I'm an abomination and that I am inherently a *pedophile* because of my sexual orientation, and therefore deserve to die. It's not paranoia when more than 100 of us were deliberately shot at trying to fucking be happy.

[Frank Munoz]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

"if you aren't even going to use baseline levels of competence to make a reply, just don't. no one needs to hear what you have to say. they're probably even better off for not hearing it."

I would suggest submitting this type of thread into the "critical thinking" category if this is something you did not want.
Your Original Post doesn't really adhere to your desired level of competence either.

[DaBackpack]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

intensely delusional apologia

I love this diagnosis

the number of sources that convey his connection to both islam and islamic culture up to the day of the shooting are immense. I don't know where you're getting this from, but this is a hugely dishonest thing to say, especially given what is already known about british muslims and homophobia and the beliefs mateen's father imparted on him, including mateen's comments post-shooting

Hopefully you are able to understand that there is a difference between "a religion teaches homophobia" and "a person who follows this religion is necessarily homophobic" and "a person who follows this religion is going to murder people"

I'm willing to accept a correlation between the first two. But bringing in -murder- is a different issue altogether.

And before you bring up ISIS, that there is a difference between terrorists and people practicing a religion

Where I am getting this from is actual data about American mass shootings



Sorry this image is from the same source --- they compiled the data into a picture

This is just from 2015, but you can find statistics from even further back.

Currently Muslims make up 1% of the US population.

this is an enormous simplification when many "mass shootings" of this same type in 3rd world countries have nothing in common except religious ideology

I thought we were talking about American shootings

and yeah P.S. there's a difference between the Middle East and America not just in religious denomination, but the intensity of the teachings, the fact that the governments often enforce those teachings, and a whole slew of things.

surprise, I actually despise religious idealogy like that. I find homophobia detestable, and the fact that Eastern gvts. enforce the death sentence is one of the biggest procedural travesties committed in modern society.


The issue I have with this is that there is a difference between hating a religion and hating people who celebrate that religion and assuming they are out to get you.

Literally in the first minute he makes the "argument" "hey yeah Muslims want to kill all of the other minorities."

No, not really. In the East, sure. But this is not the East, and to assume that "they think homophobia is punishable by death over there, so they coming over here are going to take matters into their own hands" is a different case altogether.

I won't disagree with you on the "idealistic dysmorphia" part, but again, this man was able to legally buy a gun

> Do I believe in concealed carry?

it wouldn't matter if you "believed" in it

then what was the point of posting this speech if you didn't care about convincing people about concealed carry.

instead of "fuck milo", fuck you for acting like it is not a thing unique to religious doctrine that I could be put to death in 10 or so countries which all happen to be heavily influenced by islamic doctrine

I say "fuck Milo" because this isn't the first time he's said something I disagree with, I generally find him an arrogant, hateful shitlord

think long and hard about whether you're going to reply again after admitting you haven't even watched the whole fucking thing, given that the latter half of the video gives pertinent statistical information

the likelihood of you saying anything valuable after this without even knowing the subject matter you're addressing is nonexistent

if you aren't even going to use baseline levels of competence to make a reply, just don't. no one needs to hear what you have to say. they're probably even better off for not hearing it.

oops

[DaBackpack]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

1. doesn't matter what you believe, you can "believe" astrology is a sound field of study but that will change nothing

It's completely hypocritical to say that what people believe doesn't matter because

hey

the world is lawless and "what we believe" is what forms our government and social change

[Arch0wl]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

no one thinks "a person who follows this religion is going to murder people"; clearly when I say "50% of british muslims think homosexuality should be illegal" this is also saying that 50% do not think this. however the intensity of homophobia in a given religion is a probabilistic statement about the likelihood of one person acting on these religious doctrines. no causal claim is necessarily true unless you're just describing a physical mechanism and even then, why you'd even think someone believed in necessary causation I have no idea.

anyway, when I say it "does not matter" i am very obviously saying that your belief does not change the truth of a statement.

lots of people implicitly believe that their belief somehow adds to the truth of a position.

and I am saying that no matter what you say you believe, this will make none of our positions more true or less true.

most of what you've wrote is redundant, and not worth addressing since I've already replied to it and you only thought it was worthwhile due to an incomplete understanding of what I wrote in reply. were I to reply to all of your most recent post I'd just be repeating myself.

Have you ever had people, to your face, claim that you're living a lie and that your very existence is a sin?

some crucial family still do not know I am bisexual

so, yeah

this is a gross ignorance of the intensity of homophobia vs. nominal inclusion in the category "homophobia"

pastor billy or whatever might loudly proclaim how I'm going to hell but he isn't going to say I should be put in jail

50% of british muslims, however, do think this

[DaBackpack]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

so where did you get the impression this was ever about "mass shooters" as a category, because

"There's certainly some aspects of these people that appear to be universal" -- not talking about mass shooters.

mass shooters in the United States, absent religious motive, are their own category of personality. this has a lot more in common with acts of religious terrorism than it does with sandy hook or anything else.

This is about mass shooters because

1) this is a response to a mass shooting, and
2) the proposed change is a response to a mass shooting

[DaBackpack]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

I'll agree that several of the core teachings of Islam are despicable but it's a stretch to say that "we should be afraid of Muslims" and especially that "they are the biggest threat to our safety as Americans"

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

this is a gross ignorance of the intensity of homophobia vs. nominal inclusion in the category "homophobia"

What

I specifically used the phrase "to your face" because this has happened, to my face. Where is the ignorance when it literally happened to me? Unless I'm misreading something and this is not what you are referring to.

[DaBackpack]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

This is about mass shooters because

1) this is a response to a mass shooting, and
2) the proposed change is a response to a mass shooting

If you want to make this about homophobia, then I think most rational ppl would agree with you that religious homophobia is problematic

[Rojaf]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

yeah conceal carry is not a bad idea. but neither is closing gun show loopholes and expanding background check denials to terrorist watch lists.

i have no problem with guns in the hands of responsible adults, i do have a problem with guns in the hands of suspected terrorists.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

yeah conceal carry is not a bad idea. but neither is closing gun show loopholes and expanding background check denials to terrorist watch lists.

terrorist watch list idea is only good if it involves the FBI discretion category I mentioned earlier

otherwise, way too broad since even US senators have been included on the list

[Arch0wl]

Re: Milo's post-Orlando speech, 100% worth watching

What

I specifically used the phrase "to your face" because this has happened, to my face. Where is the ignorance when it literally happened to me? Unless I'm misreading something and this is not what you are referring to.

was referring to broader context of the quote it originated from, and why you were bringing it up in the first place