Have games become too easy/mindless?

[Reincarnate]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

In all fairness, you may be giving too much credit to Wolfenstein 3d et al.

Feeling obliged to run face-against-the-wall all the way through the zone spamclicking your "open door" button to try and find a secret door isn't really exploration in the strictest sense. Nor is level design where there are just wings of the level that don't actually lead to the end of the level.

While I agree that spam-clicking can be a bit tedious, I disagree about the level design bit. Check out the following:

http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/wol...ions-maps.html

Not all levels are listed here (namely certain boss levels/secret levels) because not all levels have keys (most levels do), but I think these designs speak for themselves. There are plenty of levels here with lots of interesting designs, especially when you consider how basic the engine was.

You can also see where keys are and which wings are "useless." There will certainly be parts of the levels that you could totally bypass. But you risk missing out on things like weapons, health, ammo, etc. But just because a wing is useless doesn't mean it can't add value. There were plenty of areas in, say, Duke Nukem 3D that had nothing to do with the endgoal of the level but were present *because they were cool* for one reason or another.

To some extent, hidden content is a result of trial and error. If not, then there needs to be some sort of hint present that would make you think of looking there. Duke Nukem 3D did this a bit better than Doom, which did this a bit better than Wolf3D.

I concede that really mazey levels can be frustrating. But I also find linear levels to be absurdly boring. I'd argue that obviously a middle ground should be present, but I do think that it needs to err on the side of being expansive enough to actually explore different pathways instead of resorting to a lot of handholding.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Ocarina of Time? pfft that game is easy as well, even on a 3 heart run. (even though it's a good game I will give it that.)

Now if you want to talk about difficulty I'd bring up Majora's mask in a heartbeat. (I also think it's the better out of the two but I'm not going to say anything else.)

Yea I wasn't exactly talking about the difficulty system, it was more on the basis of the ability to explore and do-whatever-the-hell-you-want runs.

But yes, I do agree with you, Majora's Mask is by far more difficult. I don't think I've ever even passed the third main dungeon or whatever that give's me the boss' remains or whatever. I haven't played in a while, so I'll have to check it again.

[Izzy]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

It seems for a game like that it would be 100 times easier to design a complex map when you don't have to spend so much time on minor graphic details of every part.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Worth a read:

Secrets of the Sages: Level Design:http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...gn.php?print=1

It seems for a game like that it would be 100 times easier to design a complex map when you don't have to spend so much time on minor graphic details of every part.

This is actually exactly what ID Software's new ID Tech 5 engine is meant to remedy. This is the engine being used for two upcoming games: Rage and Doom 4.

[G.S.M]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

the good old days of fps games

sad to say we are never going back to those days unless something magical happens.

[~kitty~]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

A lot of games, especially FPS games, are going for graphics over game play as well. Sure, graphics are nice but I'd rather have great game play with okay graphics than great graphics with okay game play. Game play is really limited when they are linear like those and it's really about the interactive play and graphics only, while we can just ignore everything else pretty much. I don't play very many FPS games, though.

[vro]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I'll totally agree that today's games have become mindless. With the exception of portable systems, the only new console I have is the Wii, and I only have it because it was a Christmas present. One fine example of what games have become is Final Fantasy. The first 12 games focused a great deal on storyline and depth. 13, IMO, didn't have that. Sure, it had great graphics and, depending on you ask, a pretty high difficulty, but the story itself was crap. On a lighter note, all of the popular games today are simple and extremely easy. FPS games require skill in the game, but if you practice, you can get it down pretty well in just a few months(unless you just suck), and all you really do in the game is run around with a gun, shoot people, and don't get shot. Other games that are really popular today are games like Just Dance and other motion games that require hardly any skill at all. Marvel vs Capcom 3 was pretty amazing, but it is also pretty easy when you compare it to the first 2 games; it is EXTREMELY easy to be cheap in that game without really knowing how to play. The first Kingdom Hearts game was ridiculously hard IMO, I still have never beaten it. However, all you had to do to beat KH2 was press the triangle button.

On an ending note, games that were popular when I grew up were Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, Zelda(however, that game is still great today so whatever), Final Fantasy, and others that were filled with depth and huge worlds. Popular games of today are Call of Duty, Halo, and simple motion sensor games. Bleh.

[sakura080789]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

yes games nowadays are way too easy i remember playing Quest 64 and it taking forever to beat it. but and to bring up KH the first one was so much harder than the second.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I wouldn't say modern FPS campaigns are mindless. even if players know exactly where to go, there can still be opportunities for exploration on a smaller scale. in the Halo series, for example, players can't just breeze through by running straight from point A to point B with guns blazing. it's often necessary to survey an area and figure out how best to pick off each enemy without getting shot up too much at one time.

that being said, I don't like the fact that key-and-door puzzles have been nonexistent in the genre for so long. maybe indie developers will resurrect the idea? we can only hope.

I feel like "games these days are sooooo easy" has been thrown around to the point of becoming trite. which games? on what difficulty? are they easy enough to complete without encountering any major obstacles, or do they simply not use the classic "lives" system that forces players to restart the entire game? of course it's easy to look back at the SNES/Genesis era and think, "those were the days." there were a lot of tremendous games that will hopefully still be passed down to future generations. if you're willing to expand beyond that base, though, there are many fun challenges to be had with today's games as well.

[stargroup100]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

The problem lies in pop mentality. This is the same case with most media. The public enjoys anything that is simple and easy to follow, while being catchy and addictive. Video gaming is now considered a pop activity, and with the rise of casual and indie gaming, there's a lot of reasons why developers take the easy way out.

One problem is the lack of focus on game design itself. Game design is just as much of an art form as the art and music in the game itself. However, a lot of people nowadays don't care for how well the game mechanics work and are balanced, nor do they have a taste for it. If there is no gateway for catching their interest, the mechanics don't leave an impression and they aren't appreciated.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I wouldn't say modern FPS campaigns are mindless. even if players know exactly where to go, there can still be opportunities for exploration on a smaller scale. in the Halo series, for example, players can't just breeze through by running straight from point A to point B with guns blazing. it's often necessary to survey an area and figure out how best to pick off each enemy without getting shot up too much at one time.

that being said, I don't like the fact that key-and-door puzzles have been nonexistent in the genre for so long. maybe indie developers will resurrect the idea? we can only hope.

I feel like "games these days are sooooo easy" has been thrown around to the point of becoming trite. which games? on what difficulty? are they easy enough to complete without encountering any major obstacles, or do they simply not use the classic "lives" system that forces players to restart the entire game? of course it's easy to look back at the SNES/Genesis era and think, "those were the days." there were a lot of tremendous games that will hopefully still be passed down to future generations. if you're willing to expand beyond that base, though, there are many fun challenges to be had with today's games as well.

I don't think games have to be breakneck-difficult to be well-made, necessarily. I'd consider OoT an example of a game that isn't too easy and yet isn't too hard. Problem is that even on Halo, I *can* A-to-B it with little strategy, even on the hardest modes. Hiding spots are usually obvious and overly easy to utilize.

I do agree that exploration on a smaller scale might be the ideal compromise -- levels that are large but not to the point where you're backtracking constantly in a maze-like environment. *Some* degree of linearity is needed to keep the game flowing smoothly so you don't get lost and frustrated.

"Which games? On what difficulty?" I'd say "Most games, even on the hardest difficulties." Nowadays when I get a new game, I launch right into the hardest mode that I can. I find that while there are plenty of present-day games with adequate difficulty weights, too many of them are a bit watered down at the higher ends still.

[unkanown444]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Have you guys played super mario galaxy 1 and 2? Sure the main story was pretty easy but both of those games were incredibly difficult to 100%. I think this sort of gameplay attributes to the problems you guys are finding with games. The difficulty is in fully completing a game, but beating it normally is so easy you just don't care to go the extra mile (I know I have this problem a lot).

[euphoriakisses]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Not just mindless and easy but extremely uncreative.

[linky123456]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Maybe you've gotten too good at video games? All the games you mentioned are games that you probably played when you were significantly younger. (less skilled at video games?)

[who_cares973]

Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

contra 3 alien wars is just as hard now as it was when i was a kid. same goes for all the other games i played