Does your gender or sex define you?

[MetalAtlas]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Well for one, I think this topic got a little off subject. It seems to now be about whether you are experienced enough to offer your own opinion on the subject of TG people. Which I don;t recall the poll actually being about. If you woke up a different sex, would you wake up with identity issues. Whether a person is wrong or right really isn't the question. It's a person's take on themselves and whether or not they think that they could relate easier or if they would have trouble. Sure, the question is a bit obtuse as it may depend on what happens during this change and what else does or doesn't change, but what it boils down to is, yes or no. That's the whole point of this thread, along with some opinions on why you would think in either direction. This wasn't intended to be some scientifically proven discussion (correct me if I'm wrong). It was meant to showcase that some people think that they might have an easier time with a drastic change than other people. It's all about opinion. And less about fact.

[Mulie]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Disregarding the physiological and social implications of such a change, as well as any other technical problems that might arise as a consequence as I become accustomed to my new body, and any philosophical reflections I might have? No. I would not have "identity issues".

Life is mundane. My "gender", so loosely defined, is arbitrary.

[fido123]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Killroy, it's not rational to go by "I've gone through it therefor I'm right and you're wrong". Enjoy your shitty logic and ignorance. You get all pissed off because people "assume" things too much but you sure assume a lot about others. I'm wondering if you're retarded or just trolling.

[buizel8888]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

oh and best post of the thread btw
I don't really think much of my gender, but the fact is I feel anatomically incorrect. I don't know if you're familiar with computers, but being TG for me is sort of like having a piece of hardware physically installed on a platform when you don't have drivers for it. I've never been in a romantic relationship, or even tried for one, because I wouldn't know what to do with myself in one. But people talk a lot about love, there are expectations about it, it gets played up a lot and people who don't experience it are viewed as abnormal or inferior. So again, there are compounding psychological and social effects from not being able to have romantic encounters. I tried to teach myself to be ok with the thought of being chaste for life, and it took away a lot of the stress, but every now and then I would catch glimpses of what other people were getting out of love, or I would find myself attracted to someone, or even just generically aroused.

And again this plays into expectations. So there's a combination effect that makes the inability to have relationships into something extremely alienating. Everyone you know is either in a relationship, has been in one or has it as their goal to be in one, and you've given up on it because you don't have it in you to get into a relationship in your current body. And so you're already the odd one out, but then throw in the fact that everyone is expecting you to be dating, to throw your two cents in on "would you hit it" conversations and to talk about people you're attracted to, and it can be offputting to other people as well. And the first assumption is always that you're just gay, because that would be an easy answer, and it would still make you relateable because you would still have those same kinds of feelings, priorities, goals as other people, just directed towards a different gender. So again you get misread, and feel lonely, and that's just if people continue to associate with you under the false impressions they've generated. Nevermind when they get so weirded out they just decide not to deal with you.

But basically, there are very real expectations for different sexes, and there are also equivalent expectations for both sexes which are hard to fulfill when you don't identify with that sex. Having body parts you don't know what to do with, and in lieu of body parts which you would know what to do with is upsetting beyond description. If anyone has ever broken a bone, and a bone they use in the course of their day to day life, and waited for it to heal, they're probably familiar with a feeling of being trapped or being disempowered. Except in the case of TG people it's not just that you aren't able to use something you have well developed insticts to use, it's that it's been replaced with another thing which is completely useless.

I could write a lot more but I don't want to bombard you with a wall of text, which this already somewhat is. As an aside, as a result of feminism social expectations for women may have grown laxer, allowing women more freedom of expression in terms of gender presentation, but being an effiminate man is still very much enforced against in ways that being a masculine women is not. So your idea that there are no specific roles for the genders is extremely gynocentric, and also eurocentric in the sense that women's liberation doesn't really extend to the third world.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I would certainly have some identity issues. I have a "look", I suppose, and that's part of my identity.

But it's a small part. My identity stems from my views first and everything else later. If asked to define myself, "rationalist" would be the first adjective, followed by a few other belief-related words, followed by my occupation/age. I don't think "man" would show up -- not because I'm against defining myself that way, but because I don't tend to think much about maleness or femaleness.

[fido123]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I've cooled down and come back so:

And again, for the 10 millionth time, because you're discussing the transgender phenomenon and the only way to understand certain core aspects of it (THOSE UNDER DISCUSSION ITT) is either directly, or through the intermediary of people who experience it directly.

I think a lot of people experience a lot of common issues TG people feel so strongly about that it makes them go TG. As a male I'm expected by a lot of my friends to have a good time sitting in a bar drinking a few beers and watching UFC. I honestly end up leaving early every time cause beer makes me pretty nauseous, I hate bars, and I can really only watch one fight, two tops of UFC. If I were drinking alcohol, I'd much rather it be a cooler; if I were at a place to drink, it be more of a club/show; I hate watching any kind of sport. Apparently these qualities in this society don't make me a "true man" and I often feel like I have to sometimes fake "man" like qualities as my preferences are frowned upon. Now for certain things like how a TG person feels in their body, that would be something I would have to go off of what somebody who's experienced it has told me. To me, the only thing that really defines sex in a meaningful way is gender roles, but perhaps I haven't lived life in the "wrong body".

People can have real and valid opinions on this subject without being trans-gendered. There are certain core aspects as you said where people have no idea what that might feel like but it doesn't void any opinions we may have. People should take into consideration TG people probably have thought a lot longer, and harder about these issues but we can't just allow one opinion to override all others. What if a TG person is in reality just a complete ****ing moron and doesn't know how to use proper rational? What if his/her opinion totally contradicts what every other TG person's opinion is? Should we just put our opinions aside and listen? We shouldn't, we should approach everything with an open mind and take other people's experiences into consideration but we shouldn't just have our opinions nullified.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I knew it! I knew not all men liked sitting in a bar and watching sports and even more importantly that they feel pressured that they should like it. Proof!

[fido123]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I honestly think most guys do that because of gender roles. Playing a sport is one thing but watching it is ridiculous from what I can see. Yeah some people will like it as that applies to pretty much everything in life but I know too many people who are too fat to run but watch/talk about sports 24/7. Maybe I just don't get it though but this is another topic altogether lol.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I think the fat people who are really into sports develop that interest as a form of identity gymnastics. If you're fat, the people next to you on the Attractiveness Tier are (1) skinny yet ugly guys, and you're not skinny (2) other fat people. In your mind, you can convince yourself that you're "better" than those people by being really into sports; you're fat, sure, but by being associated with jocks you're at least not as bad as those other guys who don't care about sports at all.

[carlin]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Evening up the poll to 36,36; my answer would be no. Somewhere in my life I started becoming increasingly effeminate. Although I started out as a perfectly straight guy, I started growing out my hair. This may seem like not a big deal, but from what others tell me, I look very girlish with chest length hair. This somehow doesn't affect my relationship with my girlfriend and if I were a girl it still wouldn't matter because my girlfriend is okay with girls as well as guys. So no, my sex doesn't define me and I wouldn't have any identity issues.

[8 Hour Whore]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'm a fat kid that played sports~
=]]

[ffraxis]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

eh, once you get over the fact that almost all of the populations in many countries (especially north america and some european countries) are brainwashed with the notation of fear of being persecuted for personal thoughts and desires and that this is a simple myth which coincidentally is the driving force for persecution of others with the idea that this will render you untouchable or at least drive away unnecessary attention.

best thing to do is continue living your life, see if the changes give you some advantages or disadvantages, measure out the pros vs cons and finally see if you want to continue your life as is or change it. nothing like experience to give you a firm point of view on something like this.

[KyuuketsukiX.x]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

If I woke up as a guy, I guess I would have a slight problem with it at first. But as time goes on I would get used to it. There must be a reason why most of my friends are guys. I'm currently not in a relationship right now, but I have a feeling that the only people that would find it awkward are my friends. I would be a gay male, and as they often make homosexual jokes/comments with/to each other... I would probably be the awkward one, just sitting there, listening in and having to deal with "no homo" jokes probably around the clock. But as some people, I enjoy being alone most of my time and wouldn't have any personal problem with my identity. But if I were a male and turned into a female, I probably would've had 40x more worries. Jus saying.

[fido123]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I think a lot of people aren't taking into consideration not only gender-expectation in society, but the way girls treat other girls is very different than the way guys treat other guys. Girls are put under a lot more pressure to look pretty, take care of themselves, while still being "independent and strong". I know girls who don't dress the way their comfortable dressing cause their friends get all preachy with them (and they're not dressing slutty, more tomboish).

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I also think that a lot of guys (who were turned into females) would have a big problem with the way that men would treat them. It's a very different level of respect and if you expect to be treated as an equal then honestly I think a lot of people be extremely stressed out. Regardless if your hormones changed or not, if you have an expectation for how people should treat you that can't be changed by chemicals.