Solipsism and The problem of other minds

[devonin]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

In other words... Either every perception is "false", because no perception can be the same as reality, or every perception is "true", because it's still a valid interpretation that allows you to interact with this universe in some way.

It's not that no perception can be the same as reality, it's that you have absolutely no way whatsoever to check your perception against reality, or in fact any way to gauge what is reality at all.

IE: you assume there -is- a "Thing-in-itself" with no actual evidence to support it.

[mhss1992]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

It's not that no perception can be the same as reality, it's that you have absolutely no way whatsoever to check your perception against reality, or in fact any way to gauge what is reality at all.

No, really, perception can never be the same as reality. It's a projection of reality, but never reality. What I'm trying to say is that there is no officially correct projection of reality, because reality is not an observer of itself.

Thing about a computer screen. The colored pixels are not the same thing as the bits which generate the images. They're just a projection. Bits are electric signals and pixels convert these electric signals into light.

Still, even if you swapped every color of every pixel, the image would still be a projection of the same bits, even if it were incomprehensible.

IE: you assume there -is- a "Thing-in-itself" with no actual evidence to support it.

I'm assuming that if there is an external reality at all, then there is a thing-in-itself. If solipsism is right, then perception is all that exists and, therefore, it can't possibly be "false".

[mhss1992]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

Is it clear why perception can never be the same as external reality?

[ledwix]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

Other things than your own mind have to exist. Philosophically, I would demonstrate this in the following way:

If you are the only thing that exists, then there are no other things that exist. Higher entities are things. Therefore, if you are the only thing that exists, then you answer to no higher entities.

The physical laws are allegedly higher entities than yourself, as long as we accept that other things exist. But if you are the only real thing, then you do not answer to the physical laws, because the physical laws don't exist. Therefore, the physical laws are imaginary, and you can imagine new physical laws whenever you want. Thus, you can do whatever you want. Physical possibilities are unlimited, since you are the only thing deciding what to do.

Once you realize that you cannot instantly get anything or do anything you want, you realize that you answer to a higher power or higher entity. You are not the ultimate source of anything in this universe. You are contingent being that is constrained by some higher workings.

And even if the only other entity that exists is something like "the subconscious mind," that's still a separate entity than the conscious mind. For if I am all that exists, then the subconscious mind cannot exist, because I do not have access to its states. Since I do not have access, it is a separate entity from myself, since it is doing separate things from myself. The idea that both minds are the same relies on the fact that they reside within the brain. But the brain is composed of many complex entities which are separate, and so this argument doesn't hold.

[Reach]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

I quite like this argument against solipsism. If your mind is the only thing that exists than why is the universe entirely autonomous and consistent, rather than mutable (at least to some extent).

Consider dreams for example. They're entirely a product of our minds, and likewise dreams are largely inconsistent and can be manipulated upon realization of the dream. If the solipsist realizes his solipsism, why can he not modify the universe?

Can any solipsists defend this?

[Reincarnate]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

I quite like this argument against solipsism. If your mind is the only thing that exists than why is the universe entirely autonomous and consistent, rather than mutable (at least to some extent).

Consider dreams for example. They're entirely a product of our minds, and likewise dreams are largely inconsistent and can be manipulated upon realization of the dream. If the solipsist realizes his solipsism, why can he not modify the universe?

Can any solipsists defend this?

hey Neo did it in the Matrix

[mhss1992]

Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds

Well, there's the possibility that the only things that exist are your mind and the generator of perfectly logical illusions. I guess I agree that existence being ONLY your mind is impossible.